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Captain_Rawhide

American Cruiser split - why?

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I've heard allot about the Cruiser split coming tomorrow.  But what I still don't know is why are they doing this?  Unfortunately, Cleveland is my top rated ship and my go to for Operations.  So what is WGs reasoning for destroying a great ship.

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It was never meant to be a tier 6 is what I heard.

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Destroying it? They are restoring it to its CBT glory. The Cleveland never fit in at tier 6. It was a stopgap measure and was pretty much always slated to go up to tier 8.

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1 minute ago, OseanTanker said:

Destroying it? They are restoring it to its CBT glory. The Cleveland never fit in at tier 6. It was a stopgap measure and was pretty much always slated to go up to tier 8.

Well I've played the new Cleveland in  test and looked at LWM review where he says it is now a mediocre boat, I would say yes, they destroyed it...at least from my perspective.

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The US cruiser line has mostly been power creeped beyond what it could do in the IJN vs USN days.  Except for beating my Pensacola senseless (maybe), this may be WG restoring some semblance of balance to one of their first lines.  

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There were plenty of USN Cruiser classes that were not implemented.  Also, a number of those USN CLs were historical ships.

VII Helena (St.Louis-class)

VII Boise / Nueve di Julio (Brooklyn-class)

VIII Cleveland (duh)

X Worcester (Lead ship of her class)

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

There were plenty of USN Cruiser classes that were not implemented.  Also, a number of those USN CLs were historical ships.

VII Helena (St.Louis-class)

VII Boise / Nueve di Julio (Brooklyn-class)

VIII Cleveland (duh)

X Worcester (Lead ship of her class)

Still tilting my head a little bit at them demoting Baltimore and adding the Buffalo rather than keeping it where it was and adding historical Wichita as 8.

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15 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Well I've played the new Cleveland in  test and looked at LWM review where he says it is now a mediocre boat, I would say yes, they destroyed it...at least from my perspective.

Umm, not to make too fine a point, but LWM is a "she".  As far as I know, that is.

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19 minutes ago, The_Grand_One said:

To create new great ships! Also, in what way is Cleveland getting destroyed anyways?

Because now it will get to be crushed and destroyed by all of the awesome paper napkins at tier 10.

1 minute ago, ExploratorOne said:

Umm, not to make too fine a point, but LWM is a "she".  As far as I know, that is.

ninja’d

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1 minute ago, ExploratorOne said:

Umm, not to make too fine a point, but LWM is a "she".  As far as I know, that is.

My apologies to LWM.  I think  I just assumed it was a guy writing under that name, but I really have no idea.

 

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The Cleveland was problematic from a progression standpoint. She’s got mid-WWII AA (with the 5”/38 dual purpose guns) and a mid-WWII armor scheme, which makes her superior to 1920s and 1930s cruisers. Her main guns were nerfed to make her appropriate for tier VI, but that created a situation where the USN line goes from paper armor and virtually no AA at tier 5, to workable armor and a good arrangement for the armor along with AA that would be good at tier 8 or 9 at tier 6, and then back to paper armor and mediocre long-range AA at tier 7. The Pensacola and New Orleans are a straight downgrade from the Cleveland in some important ways — their AA (supposedly a USN specialty) was especially bad for their tiers since their 5”/25 DP guns are so inferior to the 5”/38. 

The Cleveland went through a Final Countdown style time warp in 1943 and ended up in 1925, while the older "treaty cruisers" got sent to the Cleveland's place. It screwed up the whole line's progression, since there was no way those older cruisers could be buffed to keep up with WWII-era AA needs, or to compete with more heavily protected ships which were designed after the treaty was abandoned. 

The Pensacola was contemporary to the Omaha (it was built a bit after, but intended to compliment that ship) so it makes sense that it should follow the Omaha. It’s armor and weapons are an incremental step up from the USN tier 5. Similarly, New Orleans is a step up from the Pensacola. With the split, the USN has cruisers that just get better as you go, instead of going from Cleveland to Pensacola an taking a giant downgrade in AA, survivability, and secondaries (not that secondaries matter much to cruisers, but the Cleveland has better secondaries than USN BBs below tier 8). 

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37 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

I've heard allot about the Cruiser split coming tomorrow.  But what I still don't know is why are they doing this?  Unfortunately, Cleveland is my top rated ship and my go to for Operations.  So what is WGs reasoning for destroying a great ship.

I stopped myself from making a snarky comment hence I will leave it at: enjoy the CA/CL split, Cleve's new spot and the new forthcoming CLs.

Edited by Wye_So_Serious

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38 minutes ago, OseanTanker said:

Destroying it? They are restoring it to its CBT glory. The Cleveland never fit in at tier 6. It was a stopgap measure and was pretty much always slated to go up to tier 8.

And it took them 2 1/2 years to do so.

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A cruiser split allows WG to implement a greater variety of ships into a nation's tree that had light and heavy cruisers that would work at high tiers.

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I will miss my Cleveland for T6 operations. The Dallas will live forever in the shadow of the T6 Cleveland

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39 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Well I've played the new Cleveland in  test and looked at LWM review where he says it is now a mediocre boat, I would say yes, they destroyed it...at least from my perspective.

It only seems mediocre because people are used to it being outright stupid OP for it's tier.

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30 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

Still tilting my head a little bit at them demoting Baltimore and adding the Buffalo rather than keeping it where it was and adding historical Wichita as 8.

Buffalo will be a better ship than Balto.  It's a good thing.

 

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22 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

My apologies to LWM.  I think  I just assumed it was a guy writing under that name, but I really have no idea.

 

Think of the Mousie as you would Annette Funicello on The Mickey Mouse Club. 

 

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8 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

I will miss my Cleveland for T6 operations. The Dallas will live forever in the shadow of the T6 Cleveland

Amen, brother!

 

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9 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

The Dallas will live forever in the shadow of the T6 Cleveland

Indeed, which is a rather unfortunate yet inevitable position for her.

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51 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

I've heard allot about the Cruiser split coming tomorrow.  But what I still don't know is why are they doing this?  Unfortunately, Cleveland is my top rated ship and my go to for Operations.  So what is WGs reasoning for destroying a great ship.

WG has planned for there to be a heavy cruiser and a light cruiser line in the US tech tree for a long while now. They are just now getting around to implementing it.

43 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Well I've played the new Cleveland in  test and looked at LWM review where he says it is now a mediocre boat, I would say yes, they destroyed it...at least from my perspective.

While I respect LWM as a community contributor and she does some damn good ship reviews, LWM's opinion is just one of many. I too participated on the 0.7.5 test server part 1 and 2, and I found the tier 8 Cleveland to be fun ship to play. However, being that she is a light cruiser at tier 8, if you make a mistake in her, it is less forgiving than it was at tier 6, but she is not a bad ship at tier 8. Not everybody will like the playstyle of the tier 8 Cleveland, though.

I am going to miss her at tier 6 for operations, but hopefully the tier 6 Dallas or Pensacola will surprise me.

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25 minutes ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

I stopped myself from making a snarky comment hence I will leave it at: enjoy the CA/CL split, Cleve's new spot and the new forthcoming CLs.

I managed to stop myself, as well.

 

OP, the info on the split has been available for quite some time, months. More, you have enough rounds to know by now that WG likes to add as much content as they can. Cleveland isn't being destroyed, she's being moved back to where she started life in the game. NO managed to survive at T8, and T6 Cleveland was a much better ship than NO at T8 ever was. More, Cleve will get good buffs to make sure she's more than viable at T8.

 

I think the OP is just mad he can't farm T6 OPS wit her anymore, and, honestly, I'm kinda miffed on that too. However, adaptation is the key, learn to use other ships.

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