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Mulletproof

I don't carry smoke anymore.

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So I took a break for nearly three months because of the shenanigans WG has built into its game, and now that I'm back... Radar. Radar, radar and moar radar. Not really like much as changed since I left, but there's always radar... waiting to a55-rap3 your destroyer at the push of a button. I'm sure there is a certain amount of evil glee coursing through the veins of its users, and who could blame them? You know, that "Ah-ha!" moment when a lolibote is revealed from behind smoke, islands, subspace, whatever, just waiting to have shells rammed up its backside by direct or indirect fire in all its nekkid glory.

Hentai. :cap_old:

So I've come to a decision. Smoke is worthless. It's dead weight in higher tiers. Why even bother when there is so much radar? It's useless to my allies and worse, it's useless to me, a DD main who can't tank the damage. My last game, for example, was getting lit two seperate times at different parts of the map, blasting me down to 2k hp for no good reason than a random button press. I worked that 2k hp's a55 off, btw, still managing third in the match win. But srsly. might as well just grab that 5-8 second rack of skill that Radar also sees, but at least I have the opportunity to hold something in reserve versus a minute and a half wait. And before you call this a salt and whine post (which it is), I'll remind you that I'm not just b*tching... I'm doing exactly what so many others would testily advise: I've adapted. I've adapted from a team-centric player to a self-centered one.

Thanks Wargaming!

-------------------------

Just so something useful comes out of this thread besides my b*tching and moaning, here's a link to radar ships via wiki.wargamining.
Presumably, it will updated as needed.

I'll only show you where the bad CA touched me in PM. 

 

Edited by Mulletproof
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3 minutes ago, Mulletproof said:

So I took a break for nearly three months because of the shenanigans WG has built into its game, and now that I'm back... Radar. Radar, radar and moar radar. Not really like much as changed since I left, but there's always radar... waiting to a55-rap3 your destroyer at the push of a button. I'm sure there is a certain amount of evil glee coursing through the veins of its users. You know, that "Ah-ha!" moment when a lolibote is revealed from behind smoke, islands, whatever, just waiting to have shells rammed up its backside by direct or indirect fire in all its nekkid glory.

Hentai. :cap_old:

So I've come to a decision. Smoke is worthless. It's dead weight in higher tiers. Why even bother when there is so much radar? It's useless to my allies and worse, it's useless to me, a DD main. Might as well just grab that 5-8 second rack of skill that Radar also sees, but at least I have the opportunity to hold something in reserve versus a minute and a half wait. And before you call this a salt and whine post (which it is), I'll remind you that I'm not just b*tching... I'm doing exactly what so many others would testily advise: I've adapted. I've adapted from a team-centric player to a self-centered one.

Thanks Wargaming!

I'll only show you where the bad CA touched me in PM. 

 

It is interesting that the league and clan players seem to be able to make it work for them. This past weekend in St. Petersburg, some of the best in the world made it work for them.

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Makes me wonder what people's success rates in baiting radars looks like. 

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6 minutes ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

It is interesting that the league and clan players seem to be able to make it work for them. This past weekend in St. Petersburg, some of the best in the world made it work for them.

"league" and "clan" are your answers here.

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The thing about smoke is you can use it as a decoy.  The red team expects you to hide in smoke so lay a smoke screen and stay out of it.

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DD's/any other ship that park in Smoke deserve all the firepower raining down upon them.

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8 minutes ago, SuperSpud1 said:

The thing about smoke is you can use it as a decoy.  The red team expects you to hide in smoke so lay a smoke screen and stay out of it.

Sure, smoke is instant radar attractant.
But that's actually not even my problem. I run IJN lolibotes. I have zero reason to pop smoke with 5.4km visibility. I carry it for everybody else and I gennerally don't loiter in it. But ZAP! Radar! Yes, I'm a bitter berry for the moment.

Edited by Mulletproof

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I never have this problem at higher tiers.

If you are playing a high tier DD, you either:

 

  1. watch minimap to locate radar ships
    1. bonus points if you know radar ranges
  2. die to radar

You really just have to pick whether you want (1) or (2).

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2 minutes ago, Mulletproof said:

Sure, smoke is instant radar attractant.
But that's actually not even my problem. I run IJN lolibotes. I have zero reason to pop smoke with 5.4km visibility. I carry it for everybody else and I gennerally don't loiter in it. But ZAP! Radar! Yes, I'm a bitter berry for the moment.

Yep Im pretty aggravated with that one too.

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1 minute ago, enderland07 said:

I never have this problem at higher tiers.

If you are playing a high tier DD, you either:

 

  1. watch minimap to locate radar ships
    1. bonus points if you know radar ranges
  2. die to radar

You really just have to pick whether you want (1) or (2).

This is probably the one best answer, except for unintended range overlap. 
"Oh look, a wild DD! Wasnt expecting that!" Zapzapzapzap.

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2 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Hmm, a radar thread, we all know how those end. 

 

 

IjhZwb1.gif

Nobody is going to panic. I have my solution.
It's just a really sh*tty game mechanism.

Edited by Mulletproof
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Just now, Mulletproof said:

This is probably the one best answer, except for unintended range overlap. 
"Oh look, a wild DD! Wasnt expecting that!" Zapzapzapzap.

That's part of (1). If you end up in that situation it means you didn't correctly watch for radar ships. If you are pushing without knowing where they are or having an escape plan, it's a bad idea. Period. No excuses.

Coincidentally it's why you should always focus radar boats when you are in a bb/ca.

You also should expect a radar at all caps. Position yourself facing out of the cap. The number of dds I see pointing bow into the cap and getting radared makes me sad. Though it's an easy kill, it's kind of lame.

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I consider smoke to be a torpedo magnet, especially at high tiers. On my DDs and Brit Cruisers I use it to either break LoS when I'm getting focused on, for concealment until I can get moving again when I stupidly run aground, or to screen friendlies from gunfire. But sit still hiding in it? Hell no!

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1 minute ago, enderland07 said:

That's part of (1). If you end up in that situation it means you didn't correctly watch for radar ships. If you are pushing without knowing where they are or having an escape plan, it's a bad idea. Period. No excuses.

Coincidentally it's why you should always focus radar boats when you are in a bb/ca.

You also should expect a radar at all caps. Position yourself facing out of the cap. The number of dds I see pointing bow into the cap and getting radared makes me sad. Though it's an easy kill, it's kind of lame.

To be fair, you're right. See, I can admit it.
That said, I'm not the person you describe blissfully driving into the cap. I know I drive a paper destroyer. The faster I can get the hell out when it goes south (when, not if), the better. probably the only reason i survived my last game. But your points are fair ones.

Grumbles something rude and goes to look for a list of radar enabled ships...

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1 minute ago, UltimateNewbie said:

And here I was hoping for a Radartaur best thread. Or at least unconventional use on lower tier ships. 

Sigh. 

Sorry, just salt. 
It'll pass.
Like gas from last night's Taco Bell.

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13 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I never have this problem at higher tiers.

If you are playing a high tier DD, you either:

 

  1. watch minimap to locate radar ships
    1. bonus points if you know radar ranges
  2. die to radar

You really just have to pick whether you want (1) or (2).

Or [as an extention of 1.] you can learn the radar ranges and duration of each radar ship you will likely encounter (By likely, I mean the most common radar ships for that tier. For example, you don’t have to memorize Radar Mino) and keep that in mind when positioning yourself using the minimap so that if you get radared you can either get into cover so the enemy can’t hit you for the duration of the radar (good luck if you are dealing with Des Moines) or that you can escape the range of the radar easily as you positioned yourself on or relatively near the edge of their radar range. Just keep in mind which radar ship went to which flank and you will be fine. I don’t expect for someone to master it instantly as it takes trial and error to learn, much less master this skill. And also that I haven’t mastered it, at all.

But hey, smoke is useful if you can use it as a distraction so that the radar ship uses their radar early or when you know that their radar is on cooldown. Just be wary in smoke and don’t completely stop in smoke. Instead, move your ship slightly back and forth because people will fire at your last known position and if yoy are still there, you may get hit. So yeah. It is complicated. But it isn’t impossible.

Edited by Dictonary

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But yeah. I agree that the use of smoke and to a lesser extent, radar in the current meta is self-centered rather than team centric. You can really only see the latter in the higher leagues of Clan Wars and in King of the Sea competition.

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14 minutes ago, Mulletproof said:

Sure, smoke is instant radar attractant.
But that's actually not even my problem. I run IJN lolibotes. I have zero reason to pop smoke with 5.4km visibility. I carry it for everybody else and I gennerally don't loiter in it. But ZAP! Radar! Yes, I'm a bitter berry for the moment.

On IJN boats, there’s good reasons not to use radar; like you said in another post, it’s mostly for other players sake, not for the DD. IJN smoke is just not great for helping other players. 

On USN boats, the smoke is still fine. When you’re using it for your team, they shouldn’t be in range of radar ships while they sit in it anyway — for smoke to be good team cover, a spotter needs to be out a few km ahead of it to see targets and torpedoes. 

The only radars that really bother me are on BBs, and when it’s locked behind a paywall. 

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19 minutes ago, Mulletproof said:

Nobody is going to panic. I have my solution.
It's just a really sh*tty game mechanism.

So's the entire vision and concealment system. You'd think that after the hell WoT went through because of the same dammed thing that they'd have learned.

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3 minutes ago, Dictonary said:

But yeah. I agree that the use of smoke and to a lesser extent, radar in the current meta is self-centered rather than team centric. You can really only see the latter in the higher leagues of Clan Wars and in King of the Sea competition.

I keep seeing people say this, but i dont see how it follows. My reasoning is this:

Radar counters smoke at close range. Radar does not counter smoke at longer range. Radar range is further than the auto-detect gun bloom of all cruisers in smoke. Therefore smoking yourself at close range is much less effective than it used to be, smoking cruisers outside of radar range is exactly as effective as smoking a cruiser at that range has ever been, therefore smoke is best used on friendly CA, outside of radar range.

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1 minute ago, Elysion said:

I keep seeing people say this, but i dont see how it follows. My reasoning is this:

Radar counters smoke at close range. Radar does not counter smoke at longer range. Radar range is further than the auto-detect gun bloom of all cruisers in smoke. Therefore smoking yourself at close range is much less effective than it used to be, smoking cruisers outside of radar range is exactly as effective as smoking a cruiser at that range has ever been, therefore smoke is best used on friendly CA, outside of radar range.

What I meant is this, people simply don’t often make the choice that benefits their team. They may be given the choice to smoke up a friendly CA who needs it but I don’t see most captain capitializing on that, thinking that they may have to use it later to save themselves. Which gets them into certain situations as a result of that dead teamate. It is a question of “Would you help a stranger?” For most in the context of the meta, many don’t. It is unfortunate but it is a truth. You don’t see as much players making choices beneficial to their team anymore. So yeah. It is relative. But if you see players making team centric choice, that is good and should be awarded.

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53 minutes ago, Mulletproof said:

"league" and "clan" are your answers here.

My answer is, more directly, maybe it's you.??  IOW, just because it doesn't work for you, does not mean it is broken.

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