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Airglide2

Patch 7.5 missed opportunity to buff the OMAHA and her sisters!!!

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I'm at a loss here, for real! What a terrific opportunity to introduce a much needed buff to this ship's Bow and Stern's plating from a pathetic, PATHENTIC 10mm to at least 13mm, totally missed!

 

I'd like an explanation to this Developers, the American Cruiser split was practically throwing you the opportunity here! Why did you drop the ball?

 

If you want some references here are some links to look into:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/8cybg9/us_cruiser_split_changes_dev_blog/ (It's halfway down starting with the gentlemen Wsollers comment)

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/151267-fair-buff-to-the-omaha-and-konigsberg/

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/123455-t5-cruiser-armor-inconsistency/

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3 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

Up to the CO to command his ship. 

Except Omaha isn't a ship, it's a cardboard box.

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I love my Omaha, thanks to the sheer number of guns she has and torpedoes.

But I always make sure to attack from near the max range of my guns or from ambush range (aka within torpedo range).

Otherwise, if I get focused down, let's just say I'm going to remember how the state of Omaha (the ship, not the city lol) would look like after it sails through a typhoon.

Edit: clarify my last sentence

Edited by Avenge_December_7

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I agree, they should've buff the ship a little bit. :fish_aqua:maybe they'll buff her next patch?

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40 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

Up to the CO to command his ship. 

How the hell do you expect new guys to command a ship with OUT-OF-DATE armor scheme?  They have no command of changing that.  Ever.  This USN CC split is a great chance to rectify that.

45 minutes ago, CommunistShark said:

I've had no problems doing decently in the Murmansk personally. Not an easy ship to play for sure, but I don't think she needs any buffs.

Dude you have 3000 battles under you.  You know probably know your way around.  Average T5 player?  Probably not.  They don't know 10mm of armor is a huge part of making their mistakes.  But the Emile/Emerald players?  Never occurred to them after their buffs.

 

19 minutes ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

I love my Omaha, thanks to the sheer number of guns she has and torpedoes.

But I always make sure to attack from near the max range of my guns or from ambush range (aka within torpedo range).

Otherwise, if I get focused down, let's just say I'm going to remember how the state of Omaha looks after a tornado.

Try to look at it from the eyes of the new player.  They don't have the practice to land shots from afar, so they are 95% going to close in.  WHY should they be handicapped from brawling due to an OUT OF DATE armor scheme?

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i simply don't command garbage ship,i have standards.

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46 minutes ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

I love my Omaha, thanks to the sheer number of guns she has and torpedoes.

But I always make sure to attack from near the max range of my guns or from ambush range (aka within torpedo range).

Otherwise, if I get focused down, let's just say I'm going to remember how the state of Omaha looks after a tornado.

When I first read this, I thought state as in territory. I was thinking in my head, Omaha is a city, not a state due to the wording. Then I realized you probably meant condition not place. 

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Just now, Slightlyaskewed said:

When I first read this, I thought state as in territory. I was thinking in my head, Omaha is a city, not a state due to the wording. Then I realized you probably meant condition not place. 

Hmm, I probably was a bit unclear about that, but you did somehow manage to get my meaning correct (I do tend to use strange similes at times).

After all, here is what USS Dyson looked like after sailing through a typhoon:

1944_12_17_unk_dd_700x.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Try to look at it from the eyes of the new player.  They don't have the practice to land shots from afar, so they are 95% going to close in.  WHY should they be handicapped from brawling due to an OUT OF DATE armor scheme?

In that case, they will have to learn the hard way to land shots, or they will get blasted.

There are plenty of guides out there for both general gameplay and specific classes, so it's not like there's a lack of resources for new players to learn. There's also training room and co-op to help them learn how to land shots from farther out. Nobody's going to complain about them in those modes, and the relative lack of opposition from bots makes these modes the perfect opportunity for new players to learn how to play new ships.

Just as novice destroyer captains realize that conducting a torpedo run in open water against an enemy battleship with supporting escorts is a bad idea after being summarily sunk, Omaha players must learn how to kite or use islands to evade fire or be slaughtered. 

Bad plays like immediately attempting a torpedo run on a Nagato in an Omaha should not be rewarded, but punished. It's these types of players that designed the cancerous growth in CVs that is Graf Zeppelin.

Yes, I do think Omaha and her sisters could use a buff. No, I don't think the proper way to do so is to cater to those that play badly.

It is not in the interest of the game to cater to those that refuse to learn to play it.

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28 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

How the hell do you expect new guys to command a ship with OUT-OF-DATE armor scheme?  They have no command of changing that.  Ever.  This USN CC split is a great chance to rectify that.

Dude you have 3000 battles under you.  You know probably know your way around.  Average T5 player?  Probably not.  They don't know 10mm of armor is a huge part of making their mistakes.  But the Emile/Emerald players?  Never occurred to them after their buffs.

 

Try to look at it from the eyes of the new player.  They don't have the practice to land shots from afar, so they are 95% going to close in.  WHY should they be handicapped from brawling due to an OUT OF DATE armor scheme?

Better to learn how to play in fragile ships before progressing up the line.

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Brother, you ain't the only one who does it. That's probably why I can connect off dots easier than many, since I do it so much too. Just figured I'd help you out a little before someone else does it in a hostile way. 

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3 minutes ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

In that case, they will have to learn the hard way to land shots, or they will get blasted.

There are plenty of guides out there for both general gameplay and specific classes, so it's not like there's a lack of resources for new players to learn. There's also training room and co-op to help them learn how to land shots from farther out. Nobody's going to complain about them in those modes, and the relative lack of opposition from bots makes these modes the perfect opportunity for new players to learn how to play new ships.

Just as novice destroyer captains realize that conducting a torpedo run in open water against an enemy battleship with supporting escorts is a bad idea after being summarily sunk, Omaha players must learn how to kite or use islands to evade fire or be slaughtered. 

Bad plays like immediately attempting a torpedo run on a Nagato in an Omaha should not be rewarded, but punished. It's these types of players that designed the cancerous growth in CVs that is Graf Zeppelin.

Yes, I do think Omaha and her sisters could use a buff. No, I don't think the proper way to do so is to cater to those that play badly.

It is not in the interest of the game to cater to those that refuse to learn to play it.

Your speaking about playstyle, I'm speaking about armor scheme.  Two entirely different topics.  Bots and Real Players don't have different ammo, they still can wreck you with your 10mm of plating.  Even if you try to EVADE, there's hardly (and I mean almost non-existent) chance in ricocheting the enemy's shell because once again, 10mm of armor. 

Point to me where I said anything about rewards or punishments?  Everyone reading that knows what I meant by brawling, it's all within reason.  

Once again I'm talking about armor plating, not playstyle.  An out-of-date armor scheme if that.  Nothing about catering to playstyle, those are your words, not mine.

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1 minute ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

In that case, they will have to learn the hard way to land shots, or they will get blasted.

There are plenty of guides out there for both general gameplay and specific classes, so it's not like there's a lack of resources for new players to learn. There's also training room and co-op to help them learn how to land shots from farther out. Nobody's going to complain about them in those modes, and the relative lack of opposition from bots makes these modes the perfect opportunity for new players to learn how to play new ships.

Just as novice destroyer captains realize that conducting a torpedo run in open water against an enemy battleship with supporting escorts is a bad idea after being summarily sunk, Omaha players must learn how to kite or use islands to evade fire or be slaughtered. 

Bad plays like immediately attempting a torpedo run on a Nagato in an Omaha should not be rewarded, but punished. It's these types of players that designed the cancerous growth in CVs that is Graf Zeppelin.

Yes, I do think Omaha and her sisters could use a buff. No, I don't think the proper way to do so is to cater to those that play badly.

It is not in the interest of the game to cater to those that refuse to learn to play it.

Not sure whether or not Omaha needs a buff, but the one suggested earlier would be to increase its hull from 10mm thickness to 13mm — that wouldn’t really be "catering to those who play badly". That sort of change would just help players who already know how to minimize damage to do so more consistently. It would remove the overmatch from 6” guns, which would allow the Omaha to practice a bit of the angling cruisers need at higher tiers. Aimed shots from basically anything would still end an Omaha which isn’t protecting itself properly. 

Another modest buff might be to give the Omaha (but not the Phoenix, which has protected matchmaking) AADF. It wouldn’t be because the Omaha was a great AA ship, but because the tier 5 Omaha needs to function as a cruiser in tier 5,6, and 7 matches, where part of a cruiser's job is AA. 

Its not Omaha-specific, but I kinda think cruisers in general should have their citadels dropped to the waterline on ships where they aren’t. It’s still rather easy to hit waterine citadels when the target screws up and shows broadside, but a lot of cruisers catch devastating strikes from hits that are really random and badly-aimed. The Omaha would be one of the biggest beneficiaries of a buff like that, but I really think cruisers in general need to have a bit more freedom to maneuver without getting instantly deleted. Drooping the citadel while still leaving armor the same would still prevent overpens against most of the middle of the ship, so it wouldn’t make cruisers suddenly invulnerable, but it would make it so they don’t die instantly quite as often. 

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24 minutes ago, CommunistShark said:

Better to learn how to play in fragile ships before progressing up the line.

I'd really like to see you plug a metal type writer into a 2018 Computer Desktop, because that's how dumb this response is.

WHAT makes it fragile is the point!  It's not consistent with the other Cruiser's weakness.  Every cruiser has a weakness of 13mm of frontal/rear armor, why is Omaha and her sister's left out?  Why is Konigsberg left out?  Not apart of the point, but why does Omaha need a super large citadel?  The weaknesses are to contract to the other lines.

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2 hours ago, CommunistShark said:

I've had no problems doing decently in the Murmansk personally. Not an easy ship to play for sure, but I don't think she needs any buffs.

Murm is a better version of omaha due to the improved pen, not exactly the best comparison. 

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34 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

I'd really like to see you plug a metal type writer into a 2018 Computer Desktop, because that's how dumb this response is.

confused-looking-anime-girls-with-interrogation-marks-on-their-heads-2558113.thumb.png.b720f0d396dccf521edc0a755f8c3f7e.png

34 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

WHAT makes it fragile is the point!  It's not consistent with the other Cruiser's weakness.  Every cruiser has a weakness of 13mm of frontal/rear armor, why is Omaha and her sister's left out?  Why is Konigsberg left out?

Ask WG, not me.

34 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Not apart of the point, but why does Omaha need a super large citadel?

Because that's the historical citadel AFAIK.

34 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

The weaknesses are to contract to the other lines.

I assume you meant contrast, and even then I have no clue what you mean.

Edited by CommunistShark

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4 minutes ago, CommunistShark said:

confused-looking-anime-girls-with-interrogation-marks-on-their-heads-2558113.thumb.png.b720f0d396dccf521edc0a755f8c3f7e.png

Ask WG, not me.

Because that's the historical citadel AFAIK.

I assume you meant contrast, and eve then I have no clue what you mean.

No, I'm asking you.

"Better to learn how to play in fragile ships before progressing up the line."

Is it better to make sense of something that doesn't make sense but will work itself out in the most painful way?  If I'm teaching a child to swim, I'll do my best to prepare him/her with the necessities so they can have fair chance of swimming on their own.  Could I teach them a sketchy method on how to swim that would work?  Sure, but I run the chance of chasing them off from further teaching.  "But that's how we did it in the old days!"  "But is it still relevant after so much time has passed?".  I'm asking YOU, why learn on an out-of-date armor scheme when 5 other Cruiser lines doesn't practice that anymore and in fact, start earlier an important lesson in proper angling?  

"I assume you meant contrast, and eve then I have no clue what you mean."

That was autocorrect program's fault and my grammer.  Sorry.  What I was trying to end off was the 10mm weakness difference to everyone else's 13mm are to obvious to miss out on.  That's the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

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My 3 favorite ships.

1. Omaha

2. Des Moines

3. Kamikaze R

I guess I'm a freak, I love playing the Omaha even with all her faults. I used to get ticked off whenever I heard "Just angle your ship, you'll be fine", I always try to angle my ship and still get citadeled to death. A buff to 13mm would be great, although I don't expect it.

I stopped playing the game from 3/16 to 3/17 when WG accidentally nerfed the Omaha, they were trying to Nerf the OP'ed Cleveland and the Omaha took a big hit and became less fun to play. When I started playing again I worked at it and now I'm a pretty good player in the Omaha, I could probably be even better with something more than 10mm of armor.

Edited by LB_Binghamton

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10 minutes ago, LB_Binghamton said:

I used to get ticked off whenever I heard "Just angle your ship, you'll be fine", I always try to angle my ship and still get citadeled to death.

YOU SEE EVERYONE?!  DEVELOPERS?!

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29 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

No, I'm asking you.

OK. What realistic difference would 3 more millimeters of armor do? If my math is correct, it would prevent AP shells less than 186mm in diameter from penetrating your bow or stern. The question is how many players know to shoot AP at a nose on Omaha or Konigsberg. Not many. Most use HE all the time. Even if it did get the extra 3mm, it doesn't help when your ship isn't heavily angled, pretty much pointing straight at the enemy. AP will still pen you at most angles. It might make things even worse. High caliber AP shells from battleships may be more likely to arm, rather than over penetrating. 

29 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Is it better to make sense of something that doesn't make sense but will work itself out in the most painful way? 

No pain no gain. :kappa:

29 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

If I'm teaching a child to swim, I'll do my best to prepare him/her with the necessities so they can have fair chance of swimming on their own. 

That's what tiers 1-4 are for.

29 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Could I teach them a sketchy method on how to swim that would work?

I don't get this bit.

29 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Sure, but I run the chance of chasing them off from further teaching. 

I'll be honest here. If a player isn't willing to learn how to play a game, they probably shouldn't be playing it.

29 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

I'm asking YOU, why learn on an out-of-date armor scheme when 5 other Cruiser lines doesn't practice that anymore and in fact, start earlier an important lesson in proper angling? What I was trying to end off was the 10mm weakness difference to everyone else's 13mm are to obvious to miss out on.

The Des Moines and the Hindenburg have at least 2mm more bow and stern plating than all the other T10 cruisers. Should we buff all the other cruisers to match them, for the sake of balance? No, beacuse the other cruisers perform fine, and so do the Omaha and Konigsberg

Edited by CommunistShark

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4 minutes ago, CommunistShark said:

OK. What realistic difference would 3 more millimeters of armor do? If my math is correct, it would prevent AP shells less than 186mm in diameter from penetrating your bow or stern. The question is how many players know to shoot AP at a nose on Omaha or Konigsberg. Not many. Most use HE all the time. Even if it did get the extra 3mm, it doesn't help when your ship isn't heavily angled, pretty much pointing straight at the enemy. AP will still pen you at most angles. It might make things even worse. High caliber AP shells from battleships may be more likely to arm, rather than over penetrating. 

No pain no gain. :kappa:

That's what tiers 1-4 are for.

I don't get this bit.

I'll be honest here. If a player isn't willing to learn how to play a game, they probably shouldn't be playing it.

The Des Moines and the Hindenburg have at least 2mm more bow and stern plating than all the other T10 cruisers. Should we buff all the other cruisers to match them, for the sake of balance? No, beacuse the other cruisers perform fine, and so does the Omaha and Konigsberg

Gad Dangit I give up on you.

3mm is 50%+ the amount of 150mm+ out there to ward off against. Omaha is a T5, ergo, needs T5 consistency particularly it's armor.  Isn't willing to learn?  On 10mm?  Your crazy.  Des Moines and Hindenburg just bolsters my point, not yours.  They don't have the stealth, speed, range, disengagement and torpedoes to compete with Zao, Moskva, Henri, and Minotaur.  So what does WG do?  Buffs their armor.

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4 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

3mm is 50%+ the amount of 150mm+ out there to ward off against. 

Like I said, the armor increase will only help in a small amount of cases. They will still get HE spammed to oblivion.

7 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Omaha is a T5, ergo, needs T5 consistency particularly it's armor.

Does it have to be consistent though? Like I said, Omaha and Konigsberg both perform well enough. They aren't anything special but can get the job done.

8 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Isn't willing to learn?  On 10mm?  Your crazy.

You gotta learn how to pay fragile ships one way or another. Might as well early on.

9 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Des Moines and Hindenburg just bolsters my point, not yours.  They don't have the stealth, speed, range, disengagement and torpedoes to compete with Zao, Moskva, Henri, and Minotaur.  So what does WG do?  Buffs their armor.

Des Moines and Hindenburg have some of the qualities that you's just mentioned. I guess you wouldn't know that though, considering you haven't gotten to either of them yet. Des Moines got the additional armor because of her play style being mostly a bow tanker while poking around an island. Hindenburg AFAIK always had 27mm, for what ever reason, and has always been strong.

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