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pikohan

Calculated Return on USN Cruiser Pre-Split Repurchase

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I hope nobody did this yet, but I did a cursory check and didn't see anything... Last year I did a post like this for the Russian DD split; this is basically a summary of how much "value" you can expect to get out of the split if you buy back all of the old USN cruisers before the patch drops. I wish WG would have given me more time to make this post by not posting patch notes only the day before :Smile_sceptic:
 

Anyway if you buy all of the old USN cruisers from 6 to 9, here is how much you will spend (this are base prices from the wiki without any modifiers or modules, etc):

Cleveland (6) 2,950,000
Pensacola (7) 5,570,000
New Orleans (8) 8,900,000
Baltimore (9) 13,600,000


So in total, if you bought all four of the old ships, you would need to spent 31,020,000 credits. That's a fair bit, and here's what you get (the second column is the sell price - half of the buying price assuming the purchase price, which should stay the same at each tier)

Cleveland (8) 4,450,000
Pensacola (6) 1,475,000
New Orleans (7) 2,785,000
Baltimore (8) 4,450,000
Buffalo (9) 6,800,000


Like the Russians, you get bonuses for having certain pairs of ships:

Cleveland (6) + Pensacola (7) 2,950,000
Pensacola (7) + New Orleans (8) 5,570,000
New Orleans (8) + Baltimore (9) 8,900,000

 

For each moved ship (there are four of them), you also get a commander, but these commanders are of such low skill, that I'm saying they have negligible value.

Commanders with 6, 7, 8, and 8 Points 0

 

For each combination just the Cleveland, you'll also get a port slot, and for each commander, you should also get a Reserve slot. These are a 450,000 and 600,000 value respectively at the regular exchange rate of 1 doubloon to 1,500 credits:

Port Slot (1) 450,000
Reserve Slots (4) 600,000

 


So by spending 31,020,000 credits, you get approximately 38,430,000 credits worth of stuff, which is a 24% return on your "investment". 

When I got to this number I was surprised at how small the percentage was given that it was 68% for the Russian DD split. I rechecked the patch notes and couldn't find anything I was missing, so I think this is it... someone do correct me if I'm wrong! Do note that the patch notes talk about getting money and XP back if you research or purchase certain modules... you don't gain any money by doing this, you just get back what you spent. You can take the opportunity to buy discounted upgrades on your re-purchased ships as these will be demounted for free and placed in inventory, so there's that too.

 

EDIT: Some of you might have seen that the patch notes mention that if you have all the ships fully upgraded with perma-camo you will get 31,950,000. This number appears to be right, but is not really related to the above calculation, as it does not consider the price of the ships, upgrades, camos, or the value of the ships that you end up with. This is simply the amount of credits you get if you checked all of their credit bonus boxes.

 

EDIT 3: Some folks have mentioned that most of the profit comes from the Cleveland moving, and that most people aren't going to sell the Cleveland, so the practical profit is next to nothing. This is indeed true; I'm not trying to advocate whether you should or shouldn't do it, I just want to put the numbers on the table such that people can make up their own minds. It is indeed turning out that this is a much less profitable split than the Russians, and that's just the way it is.

Edited by pikohan
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13 minutes ago, pikohan said:

I hope nobody did this yet, but I did a cursory check and didn't see anything... Last year I did a post like this for the Russian DD split; this is basically a summary of how much "value" you can expect to get out of the split if you buy back all of the old USN cruisers before the patch drops. I wish WG would have given me more time to make this post by not posting patch notes only the day before :Smile_sceptic:
 

Anyway if you buy all of the old USN cruisers from 6 to 9, here is how much you will spend (this are base prices from the wiki without any modifiers or modules, etc):

Cleveland (6) 2,950,000
Pensacola (7) 5,570,000
New Orleans (8) 8,900,000
Baltimore (9) 13,600,000


So in total, if you bought all four of the old ships, you would need to spent 31,020,000 credits. That's a fair bit, and here's what you get (the second column is the sell price - half of the buying price assuming the purchase price, which should stay the same at each tier)

Cleveland (8) 4,450,000
Pensacola (6) 1,475,000
New Orleans (7) 2,785,000
Baltimore (8) 4,450,000
Buffalo (9) 6,800,000


Like the Russians, you get bonuses for having certain pairs of ships:

Cleveland (6) + Pensacola (7) 2,950,000
Pensacola (7) + New Orleans (8) 5,570,000
New Orleans (8) + Baltimore (9) 8,900,000


For each combination, you'll also get a port slot, which is a 450,000 value at the regular exchange rate of 1 doubloon to 1,500 credits:

Port Slot (3) 1,350,000

 

For each moved ship (there are four of them), you also get a commander, but these commanders are of such low skill, that I'm saying they have negligible value.

Commanders with 6, 7, 8, and 8 Points 0

 

So by spending 31,020,000 credits, you get approximately 38,730,000 credits worth of ship, which is a 25% return on your "investment". 

When I got to this number I was surprised at how small the percentage was given that it was 68% for the Russian DD split. I rechecked the patch notes and couldn't find anything I was missing, so I think this is it... someone do correct me if I'm wrong! Do note that the patch notes talk about getting money and XP back if you research or purchase certain modules... you don't gain any money by doing this, you just get back what you spent. You can take the opportunity to buy discounted upgrades on your re-purchased ships as these will be demounted for free and placed in inventory, so there's that too.

 

EDIT: Some of you might have seen that the patch notes mention that if you have all the ships fully upgraded with perma-camo you will get 31,950,000. This number appears to be right, but is not really related to the above calculation, as it does not consider the price of the ships, upgrades, camos, or the value of the ships that you end up with. This is simply the amount of credits you get if you checked all of their credit bonus boxes.

You also get some silver back for having gun upgrades on some of the CAs.

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3 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

You also get some silver back for having gun upgrades on some of the CAs.

 

Correct, but:

Quote

Do note that the patch notes talk about getting money and XP back if you research or purchase certain modules... you don't gain any money by doing this, you just get back what you spent.

 

5 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Time to go buy upgraded hulls and such for all the ships!

 

Same as the above goes for other upgrades, except you don't even get the money back, you just get the equivalent upgrade on the replacement ship.

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1 minute ago, pikohan said:

 

Correct, but:

 

 

Same as the above goes for other upgrades, except you don't even get the money back, you just get the equivalent upgrade on the replacement ship.

True

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of the total profit - something like 4.2 million - stems from owning the Cleveland alone.  So if you have unlocked but do not own the Cleveland, buy the Cleveland.  But if you own the Cleveland, whether it is worth it to buy Pensacola and up somewhat depends on whether you assign 1.35 million credit value to the port slots.  If you already have 20 of them, maybe not.

Actually, for players who only care about getting to the tops of lines, there is an additional benefit to Cleveland ownership - you avoid having to buy, play through, and sell the tier 6 and 7 CLs (almost invariably at a loss). 

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3 minutes ago, Lillehuntrix said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of the total profit - something like 4.2 million - stems from owning the Cleveland alone.  So if you have unlocked but do not own the Cleveland, buy the Cleveland.  But if you own the Cleveland, whether it is worth it to buy Pensacola and up somewhat depends on whether you assign 1.35 million credit value to the port slots.  If you already have 20 of them, maybe not.

Actually, for players who only care about getting to the tops of lines, there is an additional benefit to Cleveland ownership - you avoid having to buy, play through, and sell the tier 6 and 7 CLs (almost invariably at a loss). 

Also, having the Pensacola in port gives you a 6pt Pensacola cmdr. So it also depends on whether that free captain appeals for the extra silver it costs to get the Pensacola (5.75M to buy and 2.95M refund for having both Cleveland and Pensacola in port).

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Just now, Counter_Gambit said:

don't you get 100% of the value back for duplicated ships during the retiering, not half its value?

It appears you are getting the lower tier value back as I understand it. So the T7 Pensacola, is compensated the T6 value. You do get a T7 New Orleans as well, so you don't lose value.

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If you have Cleveland fully researched and Pensacola in port, then:

1) Pensa drops down to replace Cleveland and becomes fully researched (with its T6 hull and fire control upgrades).

2) New Orleans replaces her at Tier 7.

3) If people's worst fears about Pensacola being godawful because of glacial turret rotation are proved true, you will have bypassed the Pensa grind.

The revised CA line does not have gun upgrades; this is compensated with XP and silver.

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3 hours ago, pikohan said:

For each combination, you'll also get a port slot, which is a 450,000 value at the regular exchange rate of 1 doubloon to 1,500 credits:

Port Slot (3) 1,350,000

 

NO.  You don't.  Only T8 Cleveland gets a Port slot.  The "slot" referred to in the patch notes is a Reserve slot.

The refund for the now-eliminated gun upgrades you won't get because you're buying stock ships.

Total award for duplicates and the refund was 22.9M Cr on the PTS, of which ~17.5 M is for the ships. 

Eliminating the sale of T8 Cleveland, which very few players will want to sell, and the supposed slots yield, your "profit" shrinks to ~2M Cr - just about negligible.

Edited by iDuckman

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23 minutes ago, Lillehuntrix said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of the total profit - something like 4.2 million - stems from owning the Cleveland alone.  So if you have unlocked but do not own the Cleveland, buy the Cleveland.  But if you own the Cleveland, whether it is worth it to buy Pensacola and up somewhat depends on whether you assign 1.35 million credit value to the port slots.  If you already have 20 of them, maybe not.

Actually, for players who only care about getting to the tops of lines, there is an additional benefit to Cleveland ownership - you avoid having to buy, play through, and sell the tier 6 and 7 CLs (almost invariably at a loss). 

 

14 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

don't you get 100% of the value back for duplicated ships during the retiering, not half its value?

Yes, this is correct, most of the profit comes from Cleveland moving up, the rest comes from getting the price of the purchased ship recouped (via the combination credits) and the residual sale value of the ships that you have.

 

 

7 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

NO.  You don't.  Only T8 Cleveland gets a Port slot.  The "slot" referred to in the patch notes is a Reserve slot.

 

Hmm, re-reading the patch notes this does seem a little bit ambiguous... I wouldn't be surprised if they're "screwing" you on this front this time :Smile_sceptic:

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18 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

NO.  You don't.  Only T8 Cleveland gets a Port slot.  The "slot" referred to in the patch notes is a Reserve slot.

incorrect.

having the Cleveland guarantees you a tier 6 Pensacola.

Having the Pensacola also guarantees you a tier 6 Pensacola.

You have two ships of the same name, therefore, the duplicate gets sold, and you keep the port slot.

Having the Pensacola guarantees a tier 7 New Orleans

Having the New Orleans also guarantees a tier 7 New Orleans.

Once again, two ships of the same name, one gets sold, you keep the port slot.


Same goes for the Baltimore, that'll get duplicated as well, as such, the duplicate will be sold, you keep the port slot.

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Oh, one other thing.  Most players will have Clan discounts apply to all ships except Baltimore.  This also affects the resale.

Won't make much difference to the bottom line, though.

 

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Just now, Counter_Gambit said:

incorrect.

having the Cleveland guarantees you a tier 6 Pensacola.

Having the Pensacola also guarantees you a tier 6 Pensacola.

You have two ships of the same name, therefore, the duplicate gets sold, and you keep the port slot.

Having the Pensacola guarantees a tier 7 New Orleans

Having the New Orleans also guarantees a tier 7 New Orleans.

Once again, two ships of the same name, one gets sold, you keep the port slot.


Same goes for the Baltimore, that'll get duplicated as well, as such, the duplicate will be sold, you keep the port slot.

Trust me, there is no "free" port slot.  The PTS dress rehearsal showed this.  Duplicate credits received.  NO ports slots received (except the one under new Cleveland). 

Other announcements have made the distinction clear:  The "slot" is for new commanders forced into reserve.

 

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So glad I own all the ships. I have the entire US Cruiser line from tier 2 to 10.

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40 minutes ago, _Starbuck said:

Or we could look at the most recent WG post in News:

Thus, if by the moment of Update 0.7.5 release you have Cleveland, Pensacola, New Orleans and Baltimore with the top modules mounted and permanent camouflages purchased, then the total amount of credits you'll be given as a refund resulting from the transfer of the ships within the tech-tree will be equal to 31,950,000 Cr.

That includes the guns refund and perm camo duplicates refunds, none of which apply to the proposal.  The ships would be purchased stock, with no upgrades or camos.

Duplicates yield without those is ~17.5M Cr.

 

Edited by iDuckman

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I fixed it, there are multiple scenarios and numerous combinations posted courtesy of WG. It's actually a very useful announcement.

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Nice work Piko - I have them all so I'm good to go +1......

 

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Your numbers are incorrect. You've added the value of the upgraded gun module into the sell price but haven't accounted the $5,530,000 for purchasing it.

I think this is right. If you do not currently own any of the ships and are not going to keep any of them after the split OTHER than the T-8 Cleveland, here's my math. Since you're not keeping the ships, I'm also assuming you do not have any perm camo on them. 

If you are NOT in a clan you will spend $31,020,000 purchasing all the stock ships from Cleveland 6 thru Baltimore 9. When the split occurs you will receive $17,420,000 credits, 3 port slots, Captains with 8.7 and 6 points in your reserve and a T-8 Cleveland with an 8 point captain. When you sell the Pensacola 6 thru Buffalo 9, you will get $15,510,000 from the sale of the 4 ships. Non-Clan, you will net $1,910,000 silver, 3 port slots, 6, 7 and 8 point captains plus a Cleveland with an 8 point captain. 

If you are in a clan and have the T-6 thru 8 10% discount. You will spend $29,278,000 purchasing All the ships from Cleveland 6 thru Baltimore 9. When the split occurs you will receive $17,420,000 credits, 3 port slots, Captains with 8.7 and 6 points in your reserve and a T-8 Cleveland with an 8 point captain. When you sell the Pensacola 6 thru Buffalo 9, you will get $14,639,000 from the sale of the 4 ships. In a Clan, you will net $2,781,000 silver, 3 port slots, 6, 7 and 8 point captains plus a Cleveland with an 8 point captain. 

IF you purchase and mount the gun upgrades for the Cleveland 6 thru Baltimore 9 for $5,530,000 then sell the base gun module, you will get $1,247,500 additional profit after the split occurs when WG refunds the upgraded gun module cost and gives you a "free" base module on the retiered ship. 

So if you have $34.8M (clan) or$36.6M laying around, you can make a $4,028,500 (clan) or $3,157,500 silver

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2 minutes ago, h9k_a said:

Your numbers are incorrect. You've added the value of the upgraded gun module into the sell price but haven't accounted the $5,530,000 for purchasing it.

I think this is right. If you do not currently own any of the ships and are not going to keep any of them after the split OTHER than the T-8 Cleveland, here's my math. Since you're not keeping the ships, I'm also assuming you do not have any perm camo on them. 

If you are NOT in a clan you will spend $31,020,000 purchasing all the stock ships from Cleveland 6 thru Baltimore 9. When the split occurs you will receive $17,420,000 credits, 3 port slots, Captains with 8.7 and 6 points in your reserve and a T-8 Cleveland with an 8 point captain. When you sell the Pensacola 6 thru Buffalo 9, you will get $15,510,000 from the sale of the 4 ships. Non-Clan, you will net $1,910,000 silver, 3 port slots, 6, 7 and 8 point captains plus a Cleveland with an 8 point captain. 

If you are in a clan and have the T-6 thru 8 10% discount. You will spend $29,278,000 purchasing All the ships from Cleveland 6 thru Baltimore 9. When the split occurs you will receive $17,420,000 credits, 3 port slots, Captains with 8.7 and 6 points in your reserve and a T-8 Cleveland with an 8 point captain. When you sell the Pensacola 6 thru Buffalo 9, you will get $14,639,000 from the sale of the 4 ships. In a Clan, you will net $2,781,000 silver, 3 port slots, 6, 7 and 8 point captains plus a Cleveland with an 8 point captain. 

IF you purchase and mount the gun upgrades for the Cleveland 6 thru Baltimore 9 for $5,530,000 then sell the base gun module, you will get $1,247,500 additional profit after the split occurs when WG refunds the upgraded gun module cost and gives you a "free" base module on the retiered ship. 

So if you have $34.8M (clan) or$36.6M laying around, you can make a $4,028,500 (clan) or $3,157,500 silver

 

You only get the clan discounts if your clan has the T6-T8 10% silver discount buildings.

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53 minutes ago, h9k_a said:

3 port slots,

NO.  No port slots!  The "slots" in the Notes are Reserve slots.

 

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