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NoZoupForYou

The Importance of Pushing in Battleships

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NOT pushing loses battles ... so sick and tired of 'fraidy cats... seriously.. it is as if taking a hit costs them something... 

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6 hours ago, n00bot said:

Yah you clearly don’t play DD’s!  DD players launch from range because getting spotted is death, and oh by the way, radar out-ranges torps in many cases. A Graf Spee is almost a BB and can survive long enough to get within 5k. Try driving a DD within 8k of a Des Moines and see how that works out.

In many cases? What? Maybe once in a while when a bottom tier dd vs top tier radar cruiser. Even then it last about 30 secs and you still have a huge full time concealment advantage and a minimap. 

In many cases? Seriously man, about as close to fiction as you can get without totally making stuff up.

Edited by thebigblue
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You have the strongest ship in the game with thick armour and the ability to repair damage and many treat it like a frail dinghy on a pleasure cruise far from the action. It's infuriating when after a hard fought battle where you've gotten a kill or 2 and racked up some good damage numbers you get sunk for lack of support. The enemy has or is capturing to caps and you see 2 of your BB teamates almost undamaged cruising around in the middle nowhere. Like an earlier poster said, how is that even fun???

Edited by KalishniKat

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1 hour ago, thebigblue said:

In many cases? What? Maybe once in a while when a bottom tier dd vs top tier radar cruiser. Even then it last about 30 secs and you still have a huge full time concealment advantage and a minimap. 

In many cases? Seriously man, about as close to fiction as you can get without totally making stuff up.

It's not a hard difference but it kinda does even with torpedoes that can travel farther than the radar range. I takes the torpedoes a long time to reach that kind of range which makes them even less likely to hit than their normally abysmal hit rates.

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2 hours ago, KalishniKat said:

You have the strongest ship in the game with thick armour and the ability to repair damage and many treat it like a frail dinghy on a pleasure cruise far from the action. It's infuriating when after a hard fought battle where you've gotten a kill or 2 and racked up some good damage numbers you get sunk for lack of support. The enemy has or is capturing to caps and you see 2 of your BB teamates almost undamaged cruising around in the middle nowhere. Like an earlier poster said, how is that even fun???

I see your point but we can turn it around for another version of the same defeat story.

You are the most fragile ship in game with no armor and can’t repair damage and many treat it like an adamantium wrecking ball on godmode suiciding 4km from an obvious death. It’s infuriating when after a hard fought battle where you’ve gotten a kill or 2 and racked up some good damage numbers you get sunk because everyone abandoned your flank or got deleted cap suiciding and now the 2 enemy dd have no screens to penetrate and are gonna permaspot and torp you with impunity. The enemy has or is capturing caps and you see your teamates cruising around in the middle nowhere chasing harmless red ships or hugging rocks instead of coming to rally around you for a push.  Like an earlier poster said, how is that even fun???

Edited by thebigblue
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Just throwing this out there, but a column of three Bismarcks is a pain train that stops for NOBODY.  At the very least you have three ships supporting each other with overlapping secondaries and good armor, at best they can swap positions to better cover each other and keep a ship with active hydro at the front, screening from torps and giving the lead ship room to fall back and heal every now and then.

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11 hours ago, n00bot said:

Monster damage? A full torpedo salvo takes 1-2 minutes to reach its target and rarely does more than 50% damage, if any hit at all.  Torps have about a 5% average hit rate.  Meanwhile a BB can blap a DD from range using shells that travel in 7 seconds, taking off 70% of a DD’s health with only overpens. And oh, that’s about a 30% hit rate.  Grow some balls courage.

And secondaries. Bend over and take it without lube because a BB doesn't even need to focus you to whittle you down with secondaries the moment a random spotter plane, fighter, bomber or radar lights you up.

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12 hours ago, NoZoupForYou said:

 

Your video contains everything you need to know as to why BBs don't push.

Missouri-  yoloed so doesn't count.

The red NC went ark so doesn't count.

Alsace - over extended gets hit by a spread of torps then is finished off by the musashi.

Tirpitz - pushes then trys to disengage, only to get burned down by a mogami.

Musashi - pushes with a dd but still eat a short range torpedo spread. 

Lion - as we saw tried to counter push and fletcher torpedo him.

Grn NC - didn't get to see how he died but the killing blow was from the Neptune main battery. 

Red Tirpitz - pushes up and torped by the alt.

Basically every bb that moved forward to deal with the island camping cruisers ate torps and sank.

You being the exception. However if every bb in that game played as cautiously as you did. We would have seen nothing but several stand offs. Which just so happens to be the high tier metal many are so bored of.

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If Zoup pats himself on the back any harder, he might slip a disk.

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I've mostly given up on it.  Even least time I played my Iowa, and my buddy took his NC, we told the team we were going to push and support DD'S,  everyone but us and 2 DD'S sat as far back as they could trying to snipe while we brawled.  Was fun, but useless without additional support as we both died to enemy torpedoes from IJN boats shooting 10-16 at a time lol.

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Battleships need to pressure more than "push."

Pushing to most players is "full speed ahead without any regard to survival" which is dumb. Battleships provide a lot of presence which means that when they (especially several together) move forward, they create an area denial effect for enemy CA. That bubble pushes enemy ships back, giving your destroyers space.

This is very different than just yolo'ing in 

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23 hours ago, thebigblue said:

In many cases? What? Maybe once in a while when a bottom tier dd vs top tier radar cruiser. Even then it last about 30 secs and you still have a huge full time concealment advantage and a minimap. 

In many cases? Seriously man, about as close to fiction as you can get without totally making stuff up.

Indianapolis has 10k radar at Tier 7! Compare that to the Akatsuki’s 8k torps.

Chappy at T8 is lighting everything out to 11.7. The Kagero is one of the better IJN DD’s but only reaches 10k with its torps.

Not fiction at all, it’s a very harsh reality.

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Love it when I play a dd and see BB's pushing......almost guaranteed 100+k in a dd when it happens as long as you are patient in the dd.  When in a BB, I won't push with 4 or 5 dd's per side until I can see where most of them are.  You are just asking for trouble if you do.  1 or 2 dd's, absolutely push ahead.

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When playing my BB ( Missouri) I usually creep up to my side of the cap once we have captured, I will use my radar to assist in doing this. As the enemy is pushed or stays and fights dictates if i will protect or push to the other side of the cap. The problem I see most of the time is players do not understand that 2 caps and the protection of them forces the other team to over react. DD also play a major role on how BBs push. If your DDs get wiped in the first couple of minutes then strategy totally changes. 

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46 minutes ago, Buzzardsluck said:

DD also play a major role on how BBs push. If your DDs get wiped in the first couple of minutes then strategy totally changes. 

This is more about cruiser support than BB pushing, but usually a DD dying early is due to the other supporting ships blasting it, not because of the enemy DD knife fighting.  DD vs DD early on is usually about which team pushed immediately into range to focus fire the enemy DD.  The side which cautiously goes 1/4 or 1/2 speed toward the cap is further away and doesn’t land those very important early support salvos. 

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You get torped to hell and back in World of Torpedo Ships if you push with a BB, especially at high tiers with game breaking DD'S  like Shimakazie, etc, spewing torpedoes in every direction.

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6 minutes ago, Tieberion said:

You get torped to hell and back in World of Torpedo Ships if you push with a BB, especially at high tiers with game breaking DD'S  like Shimakazie, etc, spewing torpedoes in every direction.

LOLZ once every two minutes, and if two hit (uncommon) it’s less than half your health gone. A Shimmy does well to land 5 torps a  match.

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10 hours ago, Tieberion said:

You get torped to hell and back in World of Torpedo Ships if you push with a BB, especially at high tiers with game breaking DD'S  like Shimakazie, etc, spewing torpedoes in every direction.

I do not think anyone is saying push in front of the team in your BB. As long as you have support like DDs in front capping or scouting any torps coming in you will have a fair chance of dodging. I think the mindset is come up and stay closer to the team mates trying to cap or push. I see many BBs sniping only moving 1 grid square from spawn. German BBs T8-T10 have great secondaries that can eat up enemy DDs, as long as Friendly DDs are in front. 

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13 hours ago, n00bot said:

Indianapolis has 10k radar at Tier 7! Compare that to the Akatsuki’s 8k torps.

Chappy at T8 is lighting everything out to 11.7. The Kagero is one of the better IJN DD’s but only reaches 10k with its torps.

Not fiction at all, it’s a very harsh reality.

The word many was being thrown around. While true, what you describe is more of an exception out side of clan battle or ranked. Crappy is usually played as sniper w 20+sec radar. Indianapolis is about as common as a dodo bird and has a 13 second reload. Again, both boats have much worse concealment and you don’t have to go head to head against them. Just spot them if necessary and let team delete them. 

Edited by thebigblue

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Pushing... it only works when everyone "gets it" .. a concerted push by a group of ships is very effective, but it has to be done with confidence and skill, both attributes that are too often lacking...

We, the base, must continue to encourage better play via positive reinforcement, and other feedback in game, that eschews the brow beating and aims for mentorship. ( yes I know I ask a lot...)

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I try to push with my bbs but most of the times it just leads to an early trip to the port. Why BBs camp. Because 9 times out of 10 the team just sits back and watches you die.

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50 minutes ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

Pushing... it only works when everyone "gets it" .. a concerted push by a group of ships is very effective, but it has to be done with confidence and skill, both attributes that are too often lacking...

We, the base, must continue to encourage better play via positive reinforcement, and other feedback in game, that eschews the brow beating and aims for mentorship. ( yes I know I ask a lot...)

Feels like tilting at windmills sometimes, doesn't it?  

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idk.... I feel if you really want your local BB to push with you, (in whatever you're in).
Then play the BB and try it for yourself...

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