Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
NoZoupForYou

The Importance of Pushing in Battleships

61 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,566
[REVY]
Members
6,451 posts
5,168 battles

/potato Why did they give Battleships so much range if they didn't want us to use it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
532
[187]
Members
1,626 posts
10,788 battles

Well done video

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,251
[BLKRS]
Alpha Tester
1,044 posts
2,901 battles
35 minutes ago, Sventex said:

/potato Why did they give Battleships so much range if they didn't want us to use it?

Real question is why did they make 2 cruisers able to focus down a battleship in a matter of 30 seconds, and give torpedoes such monster damage from just 1 destroyer volley if they wanted BB's to push.

  • Cool 7
  • Meh 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
909
[TSF_1]
Members
3,301 posts
7,631 battles
4 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Real question is why did they make 2 cruisers able to focus down a battleship in a matter of 30 seconds, and give torpedoes such monster damage from just 1 destroyer volley if they wanted BB's to push.

TBH it's because a BB can 'focus' either of those in three seconds and wipe them out completely. Keep in mind that the BB guns reload much more quickly than DD torpedoes.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
602
[90TH]
Members
1,147 posts
10,754 battles
6 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Real question is why did they make 2 cruisers able to focus down a battleship in a matter of 30 seconds, and give torpedoes such monster damage from just 1 destroyer volley if they wanted BB's to push.

Monster damage? A full torpedo salvo takes 1-2 minutes to reach its target and rarely does more than 50% damage, if any hit at all.  Torps have about a 5% average hit rate.  Meanwhile a BB can blap a DD from range using shells that travel in 7 seconds, taking off 70% of a DD’s health with only overpens. And oh, that’s about a 30% hit rate.  Grow some balls courage.

Edited by n00bot
  • Cool 3
  • Funny 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,339
Members
4,202 posts
8,877 battles
7 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Real question is why did they make 2 cruisers able to focus down a battleship in a matter of 30 seconds, and give torpedoes such monster damage from just 1 destroyer volley if they wanted BB's to push.

Well for balance, and like others have said Cruisers and DDs can disappear with a good strike from a BB.

 

46 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

 

Thanks for posting Zoup, one of these days we will have to division up.

That way you will have someone to laugh about, LOL:cap_haloween:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
780
[WOLFB]
Members
3,080 posts
6,705 battles

I hate it. I push all the time and when a team moves with me we win but so many times the BB are scared of getting hit and run away. How is that even fun? I love getting in the mix and throwing my weight around. 

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,791
[PVE]
Members
1,696 posts
13,972 battles

I am a very aggressive BB player HOWEVER something needs to happen before I will push a cap or flank- Team work must happen.

There needs to be a ship or two in front of me screening against red DD's.

Time and again I will be pushing a cap and suddenly my BB is getting focus fired, I look down at the mini map and see that everyone is running from one cruiser.

I can't turn and run without getting broadsided to oblivion so I'm then stuck trying to reverse out of there.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,339
Members
4,202 posts
8,877 battles
Just now, Lonewolfpj said:

I hate it. I push all the time and when a team moves with me we win but so many times the BB are scared of getting hit and run away. How is that even fun? I love getting in the mix and throwing my weight around. 

There is times to withdraw, if I got 3-5 Red Foes all firing at me. I am going to withdraw, and find a better attack route, it does not help the team being sunk too early in a match as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,036
Members
4,729 posts
8,265 battles
37 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Monster damage? A full torpedo salvo takes 1-2 minutes to reach its target and rarely does more than 50% damage, if any hit at all.  Torps have about a 5% average hit rate.  Meanwhile a BB can blap a DD from range using shells that travel in 7 seconds, taking off 70% of a DD’s health with only overpens. And oh, that’s about a 30% hit rate.  Grow some balls courage.

I don't play DDs but from what I observe an awful lot of DD players simply fire off torps at ranges that have little if any chance of hitting. I think that tends to account for the 5% hit rate. Takes guts but it sure helps to get closer if ya can.  Makes all the difference in the world. The closer the better. I do torp quite a bit in a couple of cruisers I have. Graf Spee is very good at torping and I like to get at least within 5k or less before I let em go.  3k is great. My 2 cents. No expert on torping but I sure see a lot of wasted efforts. 

Edited by dmckay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
780
[WOLFB]
Members
3,080 posts
6,705 battles
11 minutes ago, Chaos_EN2 said:

There is times to withdraw, if I got 3-5 Red Foes all firing at me. I am going to withdraw, and find a better attack route, it does not help the team being sunk too early in a match as well.

yes I agree at times you need to run but if you have an advantage then you need to act on it. its ok if your ship catches on fire. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,976
[SIDE]
Members
3,905 posts
41 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

TBH it's because a BB can 'focus' either of those in three seconds and wipe them out completely. Keep in mind that the BB guns reload much more quickly than DD torpedoes.

Wrong on all counts.

1/100 or worse odds you focus down a cruiser in 3 seconds. Prob take 3 mins to get a handful of B.B. dispersion hits that  only do 3k damage total of they don’t overpen or bounce like most of the time.

Reload in 30 secs, take an age to turn, worse dispersion in game, overpen, are visible the moment they leave barrel (not .8km) giving tons of time to dodge and DONT HAVE SLICK AIM ASSIST.

Edited by thebigblue
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
105
[PNGYN]
Members
491 posts
3,849 battles

I think it is also important to note that pushing alone is the fastest way to get yourself killed (Not sure if this was said in the video). 

 

Push with someone if you can. 

It doesn't always work out that way though, and sometimes your team is just slow to respond to your pushing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
321
[KOOKS]
Alpha Tester
2,860 posts
4,861 battles
1 minute ago, Viper101 said:

I think it is also important to note that pushing alone is the fastest way to get yourself killed (Not sure if this was said in the video). 

 

Push with someone if you can. 

It doesn't always work out that way though, and sometimes your team is just slow to respond to your pushing. 

The real problem is with team wimping out mid-push. That always happens...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
780
[TMS]
Members
3,140 posts
31,139 battles
46 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Monster damage? A full torpedo salvo takes 1-2 minutes to reach its target and rarely does more than 50% damage, if any hit at all.  Torps have about a 5% average hit rate.  Meanwhile a BB can blap a DD from range using shells that travel in 7 seconds, taking off 70% of a DD’s health with only overpens. And oh, that’s about a 30% hit rate.  Grow some balls courage.

I should've kept the replay of me blapping a gearing 20km away in my BB while he was moving full speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
602
[90TH]
Members
1,147 posts
10,754 battles
12 minutes ago, dmckay said:

I don't play DDs but from what I observe an awful lot of DD players simply fire off torps at ranges that have little if any chance of hitting. I think that tends to account for the 5% hit rate. Takes guts but it sure helps to get closer if ya can.  Makes all the difference in the world. The closer the better. I do torp quite a bit in a couple of cruisers I have. Graf Spee is very good at torping and I like to get at least within 5k or less before I let em go

Yah you clearly don’t play DD’s!  DD players launch from range because getting spotted is death, and oh by the way, radar out-ranges torps in many cases. A Graf Spee is almost a BB and can survive long enough to get within 5k. Try driving a DD within 8k of a Des Moines and see how that works out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
105
[PNGYN]
Members
491 posts
3,849 battles
11 minutes ago, pyantoryng said:

The real problem is with team wimping out mid-push. That always happens...

This is true. But I would like to point out that these acts happen about an equal amount of time. 

 

Which is kinda shocking because the combined firepower of a BB and even a single cruiser is pretty substantial. 

Especially at high tiers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,036
Members
4,729 posts
8,265 battles
4 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Yah you clearly don’t play DD’s!  DD players launch from range because getting spotted is death, and oh by the way, radar out-ranges torps in many cases. A Graf Spee is almost a BB and can survive long enough to get within 5k. Try driving a DD within 8k of a Des Moines and see how that works out.

I feel your pain.  Sorta. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,513
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
8,498 posts
14,054 battles

Pushing in this game is heavily penalized by the mechanics, while the rewards can be great the risks are too, if in doubt I'd take a 'do not push' stance. Determining when and where to push is not trivial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SYN]
Members
1,169 posts
9,784 battles
8 minutes ago, mofton said:

Pushing in this game is heavily penalized by the mechanics, while the rewards can be great the risks are too, if in doubt I'd take a 'do not push' stance. Determining when and where to push is not trivial.

Pushing is not as important as supporting your spotters with steel on target.  When I get BB/CA support while spotting, I can visually push a really hard.  And spotting damage really spikes, also. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
25 posts
1,585 battles

This is what happens when you push in a battleship. It was a great game! 90% of the games i push in a BB with end up like this as long as i have at least a cruiser and dd to support. also 4 of those 6 citadels were into a yamato. Who says the yamato can't get sunk XD

Screenshot (81).png

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
100 posts
2,505 battles

If you want BB's to push harder, be certain you support the ones that do. I try to push hard in my BBs, but there are a number of times when I'm out in front and the cruisers and destroyers aren't moving up with me or flanking the enemies who are focused on attacking me. Sometimes it's my fault for over-extending, but still, CA and DD's need to be sure to take advantage when a BB does push up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,904
[HINON]
[HINON]
Members
7,358 posts
10,909 battles

hard to push a flank or a cap when your back up turns tail and runs at the first sight of a enemy ship

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,553
[WOLF3]
Members
25,134 posts
22,162 battles

A team's Battleship in within fair vicinity of friendly Destroyers is unbelievably helpful for both parties.

 

For the Destroyers:

+ Battleship presence focuses attention on them.  DDs, Cruisers may "fade away" into concealment, but the BB is always there.  This makes it harder for the enemy to focus on Anti-DD efforts.

+ BB presence forces respect by Cruisers, especially Radar Cruisers.  Even Radar Cruisers that are known to be DD Killers like Des Moines cannot do their magic if they can't get close enough, safely enough, without getting deleted by a Battleship.  Case in point, I'm playing Des Moines in Ocean.  I want to help my team against DDs in the cap, but the presence of enemy BBs nearby make that a suicidal effort.  Unless someone drops smoke for my DM, I can never safely approach the cap without getting spotted early and deleted in the process by BB gunfire.

+ Team Supporting Gunfire against threats that the DD spots, especially in contesting the caps.  Even a DD player sailing a ship with POS guns can do wonders in a cap if it knows it has gunfire support of its team.  Instead of a 1 vs 1 DD fight in a cap where the DD with bad guns will often lose, gunfire support upsets that fight.  And BB AP shells (Conqueror HE also) can do a terrific number on a DD.  A single BB AP salvo may outright cause a Devastating Strike or rip thousands of HP off with the snap of a finger.  It is why even an Asashio can be a boss in the caps if she knows she has gunfire support.  Gun support can be so strong that the DD doing the scouting, in an ideal circumstance, won't even need to fire their guns or shoot torpedoes.  They just spot, let the team shoot at the other DD(s).  They either die to the gunfire or are driven off, then the friendly DD can safely cap without firing a shot or torpedo.

+ The threat of friendly BBs may force enemy BBs to Bow Camp, which makes them very easy torpedo targets.  Bow Camping BBs attract a lot of HE attacks also.  So if the DD is lucky, the Bow Camping BB has their Damage Control Party on cooldown when the torps hit and cause a flood.  PROFIT!!!!

For the Battleships:

+ You got friendly DDs operating in your area?  Then you got a DD screen.  They can spot torpedoes early, which is useful as some of them take Vigilance and / or have Hydro.  Early torp spotting means a chance for the BB to take proper defensive actions earlier.  This is especially true if the torps in question are DWTs, because normally, without early detection, DWTs catch targets as they "suddenly appear out of nowhere."

+ You got DDs to find targets for you.  Most especially enemy DDs.  Few things are more profitable than smashing Destroyers with your guns.  The game weighs the damage you do in proportion to the max HP of the ship.  And with BB shells smashing DD, that can easily spike to a huge amount of critical damage and great XPs for you.  This is why I can do mediocre Damage in a match with Montana, but because I was smashing Destroyers with her 12x 406mm guns, I can often be top or among the top scorers of the match.  I have had Div mates get something like 160k damage in their Cruisers, my Monty only getting 65k.  But because I spent a lot of time wrecking Destroyers, I got better XPs than my Div mates.

+ Friendly DDs operating in front of you affect the game of enemy ships, most especially enemy BBs.  BBs are much more "iffy" if enemy DDs are in front of them in uncomfortable ranges.  If the player is bad, the DD threat may cause mistakes, i.e. turn around to get away from perceived DD threats and showing broadsides in the process.  If you as a BB are reading the situation, you can profit off this.  In that example, you can "feel" when the enemy BB is about to panic, and you can load the AP and wait for that eventual broadside to be shown.

 

More to it.  But none of this stuff is possible if the BB is sitting too far back, or has made a reckless, YOLO push (like that red Missouri in the start of Zoup's video... Dear Lord).

 

Some of this stuff a Cruiser can do also to help a DD, but the staying power of the Battleship makes it ideal being a teammate that is going to stay engaged.  A Cruiser can be shot at and easily driven off as it doesn't want to eat excess damage, BBs trying to citadel it, etc.  But a BB can stay in the fight longer.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×