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francesabyss

T61 and z 39 whens the t61 for sale?

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39 minutes ago, francesabyss said:

Helped me none.

Helped you none ??? what cartoon you hatched out of  ? ? ?

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6 minutes ago, KURT_WOLFF said:

Helped you none ??? what cartoon you hatched out of  ? ? ?

I found no torp info.

 

Cartoon??????? scooby doo?

Pepe le pew?

Chip n dale?

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5 minutes ago, francesabyss said:

I found no torp info.

 

It's right in the review.

EE6SkpC.jpg 
 
At Least She's Not Minsk
Z-39's torpedoes are as unexciting as her guns. However, given the spotty torpedo performance of the other destroyers at tier VII, having some mediocre workhorse torpedoes isn't a bad thing. Indeed, Z-39's fish have a lot going for them.
 
  • They have good range unlike the painfully short reach of Minsk or one of the two armaments for Sims.
  • She uses quadruple launchers instead of the triples like Blyskawica.
  • She has two launchers instead of the single launcher found on Cossack.
  • They're fast too, unlike the sluggish wallow of those found on Mahan, and the second armament for Sims.

The only area where Z-39's torpedoes are truly found wanting is their hitting power. At 14,400 damage per, they're simply uninspiring. And that well describes her torpedoes. A much more meaty 16k damage per hit would really make these weapons stand out. As it is, they're functional but they're not show stoppers. They're sufficient unto the task and nothing more.

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2 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

 

It's right in the review.

EE6SkpC.jpg 
 
At Least She's Not Minsk
Z-39's torpedoes are as unexciting as her guns. However, given the spotty torpedo performance of the other destroyers at tier VII, having some mediocre workhorse torpedoes isn't a bad thing. Indeed, Z-39's fish have a lot going for them.
 
  • They have good range unlike the painfully short reach of Minsk or one of the two armaments for Sims.
  • She uses quadruple launchers instead of the triples like Blyskawica.
  • She has two launchers instead of the single launcher found on Cossack.
  • They're fast too, unlike the sluggish wallow of those found on Mahan, and the second armament for Sims.

The only area where Z-39's torpedoes are truly found wanting is their hitting power. At 14,400 damage per, they're simply uninspiring. And that well describes her torpedoes. A much more meaty 16k damage per hit would really make these weapons stand out. As it is, they're functional but they're not show stoppers. They're sufficient unto the task and nothing more.

Helps me none on torpedoes.

 

Is it as god awful as a stupid [edited]gallant?.

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What info on torps are you looking for?  Also, you lost me when you called one of my favorite DDs stupid (which you don't appear to own).

Flambass

Spoiler

 

 

Notser

Spoiler

 

 

NoZoupForYou

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by ExploratorOne

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I also have a  thread here answering questions on Z-39.  I also have a couple replays so you can get a feel for it. 

The torps are very good in my opinion.

image.thumb.png.87e94190e70a2c3efa5c7a86f39764c7.png

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
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shot-18_05.20_12_34.19-0958.thumb.jpg.db6aded871143e304770ec90cf1e7b7f.jpg

 

As a DD Main with Destroyer Commander, I recommend this boat. It's Gud Bote if you are good DD Captain.

Understand it's a Torpedo boat first, guns for anti-DD and fire starting second.

Edited by BigJohnsonLogan

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Z-39 is good but it is unusual.  I think it will be some time before anyone really masters the ship.  Most people don't use Z-23 with the big guns, but that should really be a feature of them because that is what they are known for historically.

As for the ship, I think it is good.  I haven't got it down yet but it definitely isn't weak.  It is a torp boat, that's for sure.  If anything I would compare it to the Fujin - really hard hitting and powerful guns and nearly OP torp ability, plus the ability to bulldog with hydro.  The thing is, the guns are good with AP and HE so knowing when and when not to use them will make a world of difference most likely.

 

I don't expect the T-61 to get released soon, if ever.  If they do it's going to be for like a week and probably behind a massive paywall, because it is broken OP in a way that no other ship in the game is.  It's stronger than Fujin and Cesare combined and it could legitimately be a Tier VIII.  It has torpedo DPM rivaling the tier X and the guns are as good as the Tier VIII.  The detection and sonar range are both ridiculous for Tier VI.  It would be brad for the game.  As someone who loves Z-23 and Z-52, I still don't want this to come into the game.

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Hey

The problem I have with the T61 is Wargaming releasing the stats, allows the CC's to make videos which drums up hype and get people interested but then decide we can't release it because it's OP.  Do the damn homework, design, playability within the testing phase before releasing the stats and the video's so you don't have to yank the rug out from under people.  Much the same way they did with the Graf Zeppelin and look at that fiasco and we still don't have it available (not that I want it anymore).   I for one don't buy into the pay to win claims and it's easy to find premiums that are clearly inferior to tech tree ships, but yet are just different which is ok and preferred.  As for the Z39 and my very limited number of game found it to be ok, but not much different than the Z23 of course, so other than being a premium DD, doesn't really bring anything new to the German table, much less sets itself apart.  

 

Pete

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If they hadn't released the T-61 to testers then that abomination would be wrecking Tier VI matchmaking right now.  They can make horrific mistakes with balance, as the Bobject has shown.  They have basically ruined one of their other games with power crepe.  If they actually make that much of an OP premium at mid tier, they won't be able to undo it without nerfing it and paying out massive refunds and probably firing a few people.  

 

It is good that they tested the waters with it.

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1 hour ago, Big_Tidday_Goth_GF said:

If they hadn't released the T-61 to testers then that abomination would be wrecking Tier VI matchmaking right now.  They can make horrific mistakes with balance, as the Bobject has shown.  They have basically ruined one of their other games with power crepe.  If they actually make that much of an OP premium at mid tier, they won't be able to undo it without nerfing it and paying out massive refunds and probably firing a few people.  

 

It is good that they tested the waters with it.

Hey

All the more point that I made to do this stuff during initial testing and not releasing information, having CC's make videos only to build hype and then pull the plug.  You don't hype the product only to announce it's a failure.

 

Pete

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It does more than for hype, and that is something to say in WG's credit.  It's why I appreciate CCs who say what their true opinion is and don't just toe the party line.  I don't always agree with their opinions but as long as they are honest, that is what matters.  Since they came out and said that a ship is game breakingly OP, it will raise enough interest among people who care about not seeing it in the game.  In the long run, making money off of one tank vs harming the game forever is a tradeoff and I think they made the right decision.

 

Maybe I'm a hypocrite in this as I got the Cesare, but even Cesare isn't as OP as the T-61.  The T-61 would have no counter at Tier VI or VII.  It would be another Belfast, but worse I think.

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The german torpedoes are some of the best in the game, for a very big reason:   THEY ACTUALLY HIT THE TARGET.

They seem to have a sweet spot of the following characteristics:

  • Good concealment
  • Good speed
  • Good range
  • Good dispersion on a reasonable number of torps/spread
  • Good Damage

They excel at none of them, but are mostly 2nd best in all. But that combo provides excellent synergy, giving very good overall performance. That leads to it being far, far, far easier to land large number of torpedo hits with KM DDs than any other DD line. Which is maddening for IJN DD players. 

IJN torpedoes suffer from maddeningly long detection ranges, and very poor dispersion. US torpedoes suffer from horrible reload times and bad range (until very high tiers). Russian torpedoes suffer from bad speed and terrible reload times (or crippling short range).  German torps are generally pretty consistently decent.

 

As to the Z-39, it's a bastard child of a Z-23 and a Maass that had a 3-way with a Gaede:

  • Z-23 hull & hit points
  • Maass concealment
  • The 150mm Gadea's guns
  • Improved rangefinder
  • Maass' torpedoes & Hydro
  • Z-23's concealment module
  • Slightly better AA than either

 

The concealment and range are really nice to have compared to the Z-23 or the Maass.  But the DPM loss is pretty bad - even the Alpha strike is only slightly more than the Maass'.  It cap bullies T7 and under better than the Maass (which is already pretty good), but it's not a real good knife-fighter, so if you're up against a PA or US DD, you're in trouble.  But it's not really any better off against T8+ DDs than the Maass.

Bottom line:  The Z-39 is nice when there's few other DDs in a game, or it's top-tier. But if there's lots of DDs, or T8 or T9 ones around, the Z-39 really, really struggles.

Is it better than a Maass?  Probably. Worth the $29?  Probably not, IMHO. 

 

(FYI:  I'm someone who *really* likes his 150mm Z-23, and considers it one of the best T8 DDs around, while I'm not really impressed at all with the Maass or Gaeda)

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2 hours ago, EAnybody said:

But if there's lots of DDs, or T8 or T9 ones around, the Z-39 really, really struggles.
 

Isn't that true with all T7 DDs, that they struggle against higher tier DDs that have more modules (and thus concealment)?

I am curious, does she uptier about the same as other T7 DDs, at least better than the Maass?

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20 minutes ago, MasterDiggs said:

Isn't that true with all T7 DDs, that they struggle against higher tier DDs that have more modules (and thus concealment)?

I am curious, does she uptier about the same as other T7 DDs, at least better than the Maass?

Concealment on the Z-39 does make it more competitive and survivable than the Maass when uptiered (as well as the big HP pool). The lack of DPM is a major hinderence, however.  So, yeah, maybe better than the Maass. But that's not saying much.

And yes, most T7 DDs struggle when uptiered. Shiratsuyu and Leningrad being the exceptions, which do fine uptiered. The Sims and Gadjah Mada make out OK.

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45 minutes ago, MasterDiggs said:

Isn't that true with all T7 DDs, that they struggle against higher tier DDs that have more modules (and thus concealment)?

I am curious, does she uptier about the same as other T7 DDs, at least better than the Maass?

The Z-39 is a T8 DD shoehorned into T7.  She has the 5th slot for concealment mod.  that gives her a concealment value of 6.08 km (6.1 on the screen). Compare that to 6.8 km visibility of the Blys. Add the HP pool you can get with SE and that gives you an advantage in the furball.  3-5 seconds in reaction time. You don't even have to fire. Just call your buddies to fire on the DD while you maneuver to stay hidden.

It's when the Z-39 gets up tiered you don't do as well and the tables turn. Compare 6.1 km vs 5.4 for the asashio and 5.8 for the Lo Yang. Not insurmountably, but a pain to work around.

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Hey

One issue that I have found is the gun reload is kind of low with the 150's, and the turret rotation almost requires EM to help it out.  I was up-tiered and could not knife fight a Kidd to save my life, of course with his heal and I only have a 10pt captain in mine.  The buddies where all dead by that time and I was out numbered about 3 to 1, with little hope, but went down fighting for a 3rd place on a losing side (2nd battle in ship).  I agree that it's better than Maass but wouldn't say it's a T8 level better, I still prefer my Blyskawica or my Leningrad.

 

Pete

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knifefighting anything in this is probably the wrong move.  It's not a Z-23 or a Pyongyang what can rush into a cap, smoke+sonar and obliterate an enemy DD before he has time to run.  Doing that works only in the right situations with this ship.  Other than that, I play it just like an ordinary torpedo boat or provide supporting fire when I can.  The guns are good against broadside cruisers.  I haven't had much of a chance to try them against BBs yet.  Will report back in the future.

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3 hours ago, Big_Tidday_Goth_GF said:

knifefighting anything in this is probably the wrong move.  It's not a Z-23 or a Pyongyang what can rush into a cap, smoke+sonar and obliterate an enemy DD before he has time to run.  Doing that works only in the right situations with this ship.  Other than that, I play it just like an ordinary torpedo boat or provide supporting fire when I can.  The guns are good against broadside cruisers.  I haven't had much of a chance to try them against BBs yet.  Will report back in the future.

If your facing T6/T7 dd's. Playing it like the Loyang is doable. Facing T5/8/9 DD's are more problematic. Also facing Radar ships at T7-T9.

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18 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

If your facing T6/T7 dd's. Playing it like the Loyang is doable. Facing T5/8/9 DD's are more problematic. Also facing Radar ships at T7-T9.

Just buddy up when low tier.  Use the high tier DD as a spotter, while you support them in a gun fight.  That's how almost every low tier Dd should play.  Even in T9 MMing your hydro makes your smoke quite valuable.  Being able to share smokes with a friendly while protected by hydro can let your guns do some work.  The fire chance is no joke, and the AP hits hard if you know how to use it.

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http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:T-61

http://wiki.wargaming.net/ru/Navy:Z-39_(1941) [This is the RU wiki site - there currently is no Z39 EN wiki page atm]

I play Z52 A LOT and have enjoyed owning and playing the Z39; I would recommend it, but only to Zeströyer fans, or those that missed out on Aigle and want a Destroyer with ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLIMETER GUNS... and those that like hunting other DDs with their Hydro. Otherwise, just take care to do all the research you need to feel comfortable so you don't feel left with buyers remorse that you could have used those funds for a different ship.

But what it says about Torpedoes is (per Google Translate Chrome extension):

Min-torpedo armament

  • 2 × 4 - 533 mm TA;
  • 60 min EMC and EMF types;
  • 45 min enclosures;
  • 2 bomb-throwers;
  • 4 bombs;
  • 36 depth charges of types WBF and WBG;
  • 2 sets of paravan-guard.

 

Torpedo armament consisted of two four-tube torpedo tubes with a diameter of 533 mm. The sectors of torpedo shooting were from 30 to 150 ° at a speed of up to 28 knots and from 45 to 135 ° at a higher speed.

For shooting, torpedoes G7A were used with 280 kg of TGA [2] in the combat unit.

 

 

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Hey

I like the Z39 very much and find it to be a very decent DD.  I am glad I bought it for my German fleet.   When I get up-tiered in it; I just go for spotting duties and select certain ships to torp, using it less for a cap boat or at least providing support for another DD at a cap point.  She is a good T7 DD.


Pete

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