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Hey guys its been a while. But summer is finally here and school is over.

Today I was playing in the Abruzzi tier 7 cruiser and I was camping behind an island on the Haven map. It was the start of the game and I was taking shots on enemy destroyers and battleships by firing shells over the island so they could not return fire or see me. It was working until an allied Giulio Cesare tier 5 battleship rammed the aft of my ship while I was engaging the enemy and took a single HE round from he on his forward bow from my rear most gun turret. He also caused some ram damage and pushed me out of cover.

The shell started a fire on his bow and everyone knows that a smart battleship never extinguishes one fire, so he continued to burn. As soon as the shot hit his bow I was given a disciplinary action warning from the game and as the fire continued to burn it started to cause damage to me. Because the game somehow thought that I intended to kill my teammate and needed to be punished. The total damage I took in return from the penalty was about 9,000 and being pushed out of my cover got me shot by enemy ships and sunk. Now it is arguable that I was not paying attention to my surroundings and I was tunnel visioning which is what costed me my ship but seriously Wargaming? A single round of HE by complete accident should not classify as an intent to kill an ally. It is bold to reduce the damage required to create a disciplinary action but I feel like you made it a little too low, there must be a better balance than this. Its probably worth noting that I have received 2 disciplinary actions since the update and about 5 or 6 total in my career of the game, and every game I play there are at least 4 or 5 people who are pink. Before the update I hadn't received one in about 6 months.

Something I have noticed is that this new system has become very exploitable. I have seen a lot of games since the update where allies have intentionally turned into friendly torpedoes or sailed straight in front of allied ships in hopes of getting lit on fire or shot to provoke a response from the game. It doesn't even take that much ram damage to cause a disciplinary action anymore and allies running into each other at the beginning of the game on accident is very common. Now I know Wargaming are trying to reduce trolling and team killing with these changes but I feel like they kinda over did it.

So what do you guys think?

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Even the bots are turning pink in co-op.  I was never pink until the changes were made and I've been pink two times now.

It's really not a big deal.  Play your two games pink and go on with the game.

Now turning orange would be a big deal.....

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Yeah, that was a serious PR blunder...   Orange should have been the warning.

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Totally harsh.  I had a clear torp angle against a whole cluster of reds, when a Hindy decided to yolo around the mountain on North straight into 4-5 red ships.  Completely idiotic play by the Hindy, but my torps kill him and me.  I rarely cause friendly fire with my torps-- I know better-- but this guy literally rushed a Montana, FDG, Hindy, and I forget what else was there, and blocked me from killing them with his ship.  We both died and none of the reds.  RRG.  This is my fault?

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Not too long ago i was in my Nelson in coop, a teammate killed the last ship (other than the cv) and then intentionally shot torps at me. They were mostly to the rear of me, i moved out of the way of one but not the other, i had ample health and popped a heal but didnt repair intentionally thinking he had tried to TK.

As soon as he blew up from the reflected damage i damcon'd. I made a wise crack about forgetting to repair, and he was appologetic saying that his  clan like to play around, but that wasnt an excuse.

I did appologize for not dodging enough and ended up giving him a compliment, but he still had a couple games of pink. I kinda wish he could have been pardoned, as it was meant harmlessly.

I think they could do with a pardon system, but at the same time i support the current system, it has gotten to the point that i see on average one TK or AFK (whole game) per match.

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Personally it doesn't bother me, has only caught me once....but from the salt in port chat, and the numbers we've seen the last few days, doesn't seem like it's going over well.

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Sorry,  never going to buy into this 'it really wasn't my fault' mentality some players have. Not only do you need to watch the red team, but also your own team to see what they are doing. Maintain situational awareness.

You need to watch your own team disposition. Is one or more out of position? Is one making a mistake. Are we going to be flanked because of a loss of a ship? Am I too close to a team player causing him to collide? Am I near an area where one of my teams DD's might be shooting torps? 

The list goes on. Ultimately, it's you who are responsible. If you turned pink, play the few games it takes to work it off and move on. If your bad habits turn you orange, then it's all on you and enjoy co-op.

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A clear shot is when no friendlies could possibly get hit by my ordinance.  Risky shot is when a friendly could possibly eat some of my ordinance.  i have paid the price a few times for unintentional and intentionally risky shots, five I think.  It would be nice, though, if we didn't have to keep watching our immediate surroundings when firing from cover, but situational awareness is an important skill.

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1 hour ago, n00bot said:

Totally harsh.  I had a clear torp angle against a whole cluster of reds, when a Hindy decided to yolo around the mountain on North straight into 4-5 red ships.  Completely idiotic play by the Hindy, but my torps kill him and me.  I rarely cause friendly fire with my torps-- I know better-- but this guy literally rushed a Montana, FDG, Hindy, and I forget what else was there, and blocked me from killing them with his ship.  We both died and none of the reds.  RRG.  This is my fault?

/sarcasm Clearly he deserved it.

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Harsh or not, it's still something completely under your control.  If you happen to learn a tiny bit of situational awareness then the penalty system is working as intended.  If you don't learn from it, just get used to being pink, stop complaining about it and move on, WG will likely be tweaking this new system as more data flows in on how it's working (or not working).

For full disclosure, I myself turned pink recently.  It was totally overly harsh and completely unjustified.  Four of my teammates including me got the pink, all because the last ship on the enemy team just wouldn't die and everyone left tried to torp, shoot, and ram him all at once, it was comical and totally worth it.  I'm pretty sure I hit al least three other teammates with the last salvo, but there was smoke and so many wrecks it was hard to tell.

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2 hours ago, n00bot said:

Totally harsh.  I had a clear torp angle against a whole cluster of reds, when a Hindy decided to yolo around the mountain on North straight into 4-5 red ships.  Completely idiotic play by the Hindy, but my torps kill him and me.  I rarely cause friendly fire with my torps-- I know better-- but this guy literally rushed a Montana, FDG, Hindy, and I forget what else was there, and blocked me from killing them with his ship.  We both died and none of the reds.  RRG.  This is my fault?

I really hate to assign fault in totality. I will give you more fault than hindy, because it is your ordinance. But....

I loathe this situation you presented. A number of times there has been a cluster of reds within torp range of several ships. Never has a multiple spread been a better option, but some jacka $$ always has to try to yolo kamikaze them, like they are some que ball in a billiards break....

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The battleship ramming a freindly stationary cruiser is at fault.

He should have repaired fire to be nice for ramming you.

.....

Under the team damage system, a fire or flood tick counts as if you are repeatedly shooting the freindly, so harsher and harsher penalties get applied until it starts reflecting back on you.

....

In your described situation, it's not fair. Just move on and get rid of your pink. It is no big deal as lo g as you can go X Amoi t of games without doing any freindly damage. I would think it would be around 25.

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5 hours ago, Rusty2011 said:

Something I have noticed is that this new system has become very exploitable. I have seen a lot of games since the update where allies have intentionally turned into friendly torpedoes or sailed straight in front of allied ships in hopes of getting lit on fire or shot to provoke a response from the game. It doesn't even take that much ram damage to cause a disciplinary action anymore and allies running into each other at the beginning of the game on accident is very common. Now I know Wargaming are trying to reduce trolling and team killing with these changes but I feel like they kinda over did it.

So what do you guys think?

They needed to do something bjut it does seem like people are exploiting this, or perhaps IQs have dropped sharply.

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I was watching a well-known streamer last night, and he caught immediate pink status when a friendly destroyer rammed him inside smoke and ate two (2!) of his HE rounds for a total of less than 1700 damage.  No DOT, just those two shell hits.

Given that this system is presumably in place to discourage/punish repeat offenders, wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense to just keep the old "pink" standards in place, but actually go in and punish those who keep triggering the team kill penalties?  By, I don't know, maybe banning them?  As far as I can tell, this new system accomplishes only three things:

  1. Annoys the hell out of casual and even constant players who feel they are being punished for other peoples' mistakes (and in many cases, are being punished for other peoples' mistakes).
  2. Eliminates players taking any notice whatsoever of "pink" teammates because there are so damn many of them now.  Thereby making it less likely that WarGaming will be notified through the ticket system when gross violations actually are happening, because nobody is looking.
  3. Offers a great and spectacularly easy opportunity for "griefing" in the game.

To state the obvious, none of those things offers any improvement whatsoever over the old system.

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7 hours ago, Rusty2011 said:

Hey guys its been a while. But summer is finally here and school is over.

Today I was playing in the Abruzzi tier 7 cruiser and I was camping behind an island on the Haven map. It was the start of the game and I was taking shots on enemy destroyers and battleships by firing shells over the island so they could not return fire or see me. It was working until an allied Giulio Cesare tier 5 battleship rammed the aft of my ship while I was engaging the enemy and took a single HE round from he on his forward bow from my rear most gun turret. He also caused some ram damage and pushed me out of cover.

The shell started a fire on his bow and everyone knows that a smart battleship never extinguishes one fire, so he continued to burn. As soon as the shot hit his bow I was given a disciplinary action warning from the game and as the fire continued to burn it started to cause damage to me. Because the game somehow thought that I intended to kill my teammate and needed to be punished. The total damage I took in return from the penalty was about 9,000 and being pushed out of my cover got me shot by enemy ships and sunk. Now it is arguable that I was not paying attention to my surroundings and I was tunnel visioning which is what costed me my ship but seriously Wargaming? A single round of HE by complete accident should not classify as an intent to kill an ally. It is bold to reduce the damage required to create a disciplinary action but I feel like you made it a little too low, there must be a better balance than this. Its probably worth noting that I have received 2 disciplinary actions since the update and about 5 or 6 total in my career of the game, and every game I play there are at least 4 or 5 people who are pink. Before the update I hadn't received one in about 6 months.

Something I have noticed is that this new system has become very exploitable. I have seen a lot of games since the update where allies have intentionally turned into friendly torpedoes or sailed straight in front of allied ships in hopes of getting lit on fire or shot to provoke a response from the game. It doesn't even take that much ram damage to cause a disciplinary action anymore and allies running into each other at the beginning of the game on accident is very common. Now I know Wargaming are trying to reduce trolling and team killing with these changes but I feel like they kinda over did it.

So what do you guys think?

Go to Gulag and no soup for you. 

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1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

They needed to do something bjut it does seem like people are exploiting this, or perhaps IQs have dropped sharply.

None in first place to drop:Smile_teethhappy:

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57 minutes ago, Harv72b said:

Offers a great and spectacularly easy opportunity for "griefing" in the game.
 

 

Well it is even easier to grief with the old system. I think the new system may need tweaking but its better than nothing.

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12 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Well it is even easier to grief with the old system. I think the new system may need tweaking but its better than nothing.

How so?  In the old system you basically had to sink a friendly ship to be penalized, and it took either some massive derp (full torpedo spread into a friendly battleship) or blatantly intentional acts to trigger an instant pink.  The only way I can think of to grief somebody there would be by drastically altering your course to eat friendly torps (which you can still do now) or maybe by bumping yourself to death on a friendly if you found your ship with <50 hp remaining & time left on the clock.

With the new system, one need only find a rapid-firing friendly ship and sail directly between it and the enemy with a few meters separating you from their barrels.  Even if they're watching the mini map, and even if they have it blown up to full size, the resolution on it isn't great enough to see just how closely a friendly ship is approaching, let alone which side of your ship it's going to pass on.

Nobody is suggesting we scrap team-kill penalties entirely.  I think a lot of people (myself included) feel that this current iteration is a step backwards from the previous system and is creating far too many false positives.

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I usually come from the "You fired it, you own it" and "Get over it and move on" school of thought. However...

The "New! Improved! With moar salt!" TK system is causing a lot of hate and discontent, warranted or not. Just the PR and player retention damage should be a signal to the WG marketing staff to insist that the code boffins and designers seriously re-think the system from the ground up.

While most of the arsehurt is over-reaction to paltry 2-game warnings, there have been enough really heinous injustices due to intentional exploitation that I'm convinced there needs to be a serious revamp, not just tinkering around the edges.

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Just turn off team damage.

It's been off in ops since forever and ops haven't devolved into a mess of trolling and anarchy.

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1 hour ago, TF77 said:

I usually come from the "You fired it, you own it" and "Get over it and move on" school of thought. However...

The "New! Improved! With moar salt!" TK system is causing a lot of hate and discontent, warranted or not. Just the PR and player retention damage should be a signal to the WG marketing staff to insist that the code boffins and designers seriously re-think the system from the ground up.

While most of the arsehurt is over-reaction to paltry 2-game warnings, there have been enough really heinous injustices due to intentional exploitation that I'm convinced there needs to be a serious revamp, not just tinkering around the edges.

I agree with you completely.   Twice now I have fired torps at a ship, said in team chat "okay, firing torps at that lone BB in A " or "firing torps at the - whatever it is" and like other says, you get some guy totally oblivious and sails right into the path.  People do not stop and think, especially in high tier games, when you are firing torps that go 15 or 20 km range, you have to give them room.    I don't like the new system at all.  What it does above all things is ruin the fun in the game for me, and that is the worst thing you can do in any game is ruin the fun.

 

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If people are going pink because of being rubbed up against then they have already done a lot of damage to teammates.  I have been involved with rubbing and been rubbed on by plenty of ships and have not gone pink since the new system came on board.

Just turn off team damage.

It's been off in ops since forever and ops haven't devolved into a mess of trolling and anarchy.

I have seen just that numerous times in Operations from teh Halloween ops onward once people realize team damage is off.  Worse yet - instead of aiming torps they just shoot them somewhere near the enemy and if friendlies are in the way - well then the torps get completely wasted when they hit the friendlies and not the enemy.

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1 hour ago, intixw said:

Just turn off team damage.

It's been off in ops since forever and ops haven't devolved into a mess of trolling and anarchy.

No because when get into a huge brawl part of the strategy is maneuvering so the enemy DDs can't torp you without risking friendly fire.

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3 hours ago, Harv72b said:

 

With the new system, one need only find a rapid-firing friendly ship and sail directly between it and the enemy with a few meters separating you from their barrels.  Even if they're watching the mini map, and even if they have it blown up to full size, the resolution on it isn't great enough to see just how closely a friendly ship is approaching, let alone which side of your ship it's going to pass on.

 

I went pink once under the old system in precisely this way.  A battleship sailed between me and my cover, I lit him on fire accidentally, he did not or could not put out the fire, I turned pink and started taking reflection damage before he extinguished.  And no, I did not kill him.  The threshold might be lower, but I'm not sure the difference in kind exists.

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2 hours ago, CylonRed said:

Worse yet - instead of aiming torps they just shoot them somewhere near the enemy and if friendlies are in the way - well then the torps get completely wasted when they hit the friendlies and not the enemy

Funny enough, they've already been punished for it: They wasted a salvo of torps.

Did they get punished as much as if team damage+tk prevention was active? No. But on the other hand, no one else was affected.

 

2 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

No because when get into a huge brawl part of the strategy is maneuvering so the enemy DDs can't torp you without risking friendly fire.

If you take half a second to think about what you're saying here, you're suggesting that you position yourself closer to enemy fire in a situation where every point of HP counts.

Furthermore, if you're in a DD brawl, those DDs shouldn't (in general) be torping anyway. You need to take time off firing your guns to aim and launch torps, and that gap in firing is super obvious, so whoever you're brawling would immediately evade anyway. 

The only time a DD should be torping in a brawl is if they're super close, and in a high risk situation like that, I doubt anyone but the most super of unicums is even thinking about where their torps are going beyond the immediate target, you can always warn your allies to dodge later, but if you don't fire, you're dead NOW.

So no, I don't buy this garbage for a second.

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