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Is AA on destroyers completely useless?

How often do you have your AA on in your DD?  

52 members have voted

  1. 1. How often do you use your AA on your dd?

    • Always
      12
    • Never
      7
    • In your smoke
      4
    • Situational
      29

27 comments in this topic

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 This brings me up to asking this question.  Are the Anti Aircraft guns on a destroyer at this point in the game completely useless?  I ask this because I basically think of the players and myself whom like to play with sort of a stealth mode while running a destroyer.   I don't think I've ever even had my AA on what so ever during a game.  AA guns just give away your position and light you up on the mini map.  So I'm one of those players that just turns them off entirely.  I don't even bother using them.  There are other ships around me with AA yes.  So I  ask again, is it even worth having it on the destroyers at all?  I personally would rather have the extra fire power of another added gun or even yet extending the fire power of the destroyers.  I can understand the historical accuracy but this is just a game of course.  Thoughts?

Edited by SuperSpud1

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It really depends on the destroyer. All of the US DD's are worth spending full AA including manual once you hit T7/8. 

Some of the Russian DD's are worth it too. I'm talking about the Grozovoi part of the line.

 

Akizuki is simply brutal and downright sadistic to planes when she's specced for it. Once they complete that line to T10, they're likely to be evil too.

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Been a while since I put much thought into it, but unless your aerial detection is smaller than your AA gun range, there's no point in turning it off.

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AA is situational, I didn't vote in your poll as none of the answers fit.

Am I spotted, am I not spotted?

Is my AA worthless (Kami sisters)

Is my AA Ok?

How does my AA range compare to my detect range? I have ships that my AA range is so pathetically short I am long spotted before it goes off. More likely to use it then

Quite a few factors not a yes or no to me

 

 

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yes, some DDs are more specialized for AA like american ones (some carry defensive fire)

 

Generally, if I am in smoke, in cover where no one can shoot me, or planes just happen to fly over me anyways and don't intend on leaving, I turn on AA

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There's a reason why CV division anchoring usually involves Kidd or C-hull benson.

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Fletcher, Sims, Kidd.... excellent AA. My record in Fletch is 25 planes. I imagine there are Fletch drivers with 40 or 50 in a game. 

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14 minutes ago, cometguy said:

Been a while since I put much thought into it, but unless your aerial detection is smaller than your AA gun range, there's no point in turning it off.

Yeah, I pretty much only turn it off if I have DP guns.

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14 minutes ago, TitanicMan2 said:

yes, some DDs are more specialized for AA like american ones (some carry defensive fire)

Yup, even Nicholas can use DFAA to panic bombers, and a plane can't shadow it without being shot at.

The AA DPS isn't fantastic, but it'll wear away at a low-tier CV squadron.

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27 minutes ago, SuperSpud1 said:

 This brings me up to asking this question.  Are the Anti Aircraft guns on a destroyer at this point in the game completely useless?  I ask this because I basically think of the players and myself whom like to play with sort of a stealth mode while running a destroyer.   I don't think I've ever even had my AA on what so ever during a game.  AA guns just give away your position and light you up on the mini map.  So I'm one of those players that just turns them off entirely.  I don't even bother using them.  There are other ships around me with AA yes.  So I  ask again, is it even worth having it on the destroyers at all?  I personally would rather have the extra fire power of another added gun or even yet extending the fire power of the destroyers.  I can understand the historical accuracy but this is just a game of course.  Thoughts?

You need a “situational” choice in the poll. It is highly dependent on what happens. If my AA range is shorter than air detectability range, AA is always on. If I am in smoke, AA is always on. If AA is longer ranged, it is off until I am detected by air then goes off again when they’ve moved away. You never know when you can knock one out and there’s no reason to have it off if they are right over you.

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you can build many dds with aa

people often put duk with manual aa and aft well used to..why now when kid exists.

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Benson, gearing, grozovoi, kidd, have a really st*p*d AA.

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Let me put it this way - My Shokaku, with every HP increase possible to all plane types, and basically no opposition from enemy CV - vs a USS Kidd that at times, thanks to spotting, smoke, storms, was completely invisible.

t15GjCP.png

That's out of what, 72-ish I think on Shokaku? I've basically avoided PvP CV play the last couple months because of crap like this. Because that Kidd? had no help doing that, and 9/10 times the red team I go against is smart enough to group up so my planes can't even get through. Hell, I was doing one of the recent scenario's with my independence, and again, all the possible HP upgrades, and all that, and against a couple tier 4's, one of which apparently had DF, lost basically my entire torp squadron and I think several DB's. Which basically was half my allotted attack planes - when I have a 2, and in the DB case 3, tier advantage.

It's why I will GLADLY take a damage nerf to my CV's if it means we can nerf the freaking AA and up the accuracy on DB's.

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Completly depends on the DD and on the situation, but as a whole, no they are not entirely useless. 

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30 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

Hell, I was doing one of the recent scenario's with my independence, and again, all the possible HP upgrades, and all that, and against a couple tier 4's, one of which apparently had DF, lost basically my entire torp squadron and I think several DB's. Which basically was half my allotted attack planes - when I have a 2, and in the DB case 3, tier advantage.

(-)

It's why I will GLADLY take a damage nerf to my CV's if it means we can nerf the freaking AA and up the accuracy on DB's.

None of the Tier 4s have DF, (though I think Newport might have a Yubari; which does have DF;) so the most likely culprit was an Aoba, Nurnburg, or a Myoko, (might be a Yorck in there somewhere as well.) 

Final Frontier also has a Nicholas, Cleveland’s, and an Atlanta.

(-)

As long as they get rid of Strafe as well; but in truth I’d rather not take a damage nerf.

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Starting off, no matter what dd class you are, or if your even AA build. if your hard spotted by a ship and there are planes around. turn your AA on. if your hard spotted by planes turn your AA on. at the same time as soon as you are not longer hard spotted by a ship or the planes leave your detection range turn your AA back off. Even with [edited] AA like on a fubuki there is still a chance you can knock a plane down. every plane matters in the long run.

2nd when using a DD that is full AA build(AFT, BFT, manual AA, plus ship mods) , currently my Sims and grosv. My AA is turned off unless planes get within 4-5km of me when I'm stealth or I'm using my DF to help an ally avoid attacks. besides that a sims full AA build vs a tier 6 cv will demolish their planes tier 7 you can take out 1 USA squad with ease, 2 if they stick around until the end of DF. A grosv if you let any CV player get to where they are about to detect you then turn on your DF and focus down the attack planes  you can usually kill every attack plane before they get out of your range. Grosvi full AA build with DF active has the AA dps of a full AA build Montana. so its very scary. For a lot of DD's like the sims your AA is all in your DP guns, so manual AA is a must to be effective at killing. but no matter what DF is very helpful when there is a CV in a match.

Overall using your AA no matter how bad it is, is worth using. you just need to watch your situation to know if you should turn it on or off. as a torpedo boat destroyer you want to avoid detection as much as possible so only turn it on if your being spotted, as a gun boat like  a tashk or khab just leave your AA on, as your game plane is to be spotted and harrashing the enemy all the time, unless you are actually trying to hide to ambush then turn it off.

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The Benson in Wows gets 2 20mm and 2mgs, it had 6 20mm, 4 .50 calibre and dual twin 40mm bofers in real life, it was very dangerous to enemy planes. 

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9 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

None of the Tier 4s have DF, (though I think Newport might have a Yubari; which does have DF;) so the most likely culprit was an Aoba, Nurnburg, or a Myoko, (might be a Yorck in there somewhere as well.) 

Final Frontier also has a Nicholas, Cleveland’s, and an Atlanta.

(-)

As long as they get rid of Strafe as well; but in truth I’d rather not take a damage nerf.

The  yubari, does have DF its good AA with a full build commander as a player with df active is 220 dps at 3.7km. im not sure what the bots are but its going to be at its basics, 180 dps at 3.1km range

 

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I always run Defensive fire on my Fletcher, Gearing and Udaloi. Its like protection, glad I have it but hope I don't have to use it. 

Now on my Benson I normally run the B Hull but if one of my div mates just has to run a Carrier and I need to play the DD I'll switch to the C Hull and take DF. 

But Defensive Fire on a DD is really just self defense, you have to close to a friendly ships to help them out. 

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My AA on my DD is always off, get detected get sunk ... in all my DD play at the beginning it’s never ever shot down a plane .. didn’t matter what DD ..the only thing it did was get me at times detected

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Kidd, Fletcher, Gearing , all have access to Def AA making their AA stupidly strong.

 

Grozovoi is also a really scary ship for CV and has access to Def AA.

 

Meanwhile Akizuki which was designed as an AA DD don't even have Def AA. Her value are indeed good, but the fact you have to spend so many skills to make this ship a somewhat good AA plateform isn't worth it unless you always div with a CV. 

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

None of the Tier 4s have DF, (though I think Newport might have a Yubari; which does have DF;) so the most likely culprit was an Aoba, Nurnburg, or a Myoko, (might be a Yorck in there somewhere as well.) 

Final Frontier also has a Nicholas, Cleveland’s, and an Atlanta.

(-)

As long as they get rid of Strafe as well; but in truth I’d rather not take a damage nerf.

It was Yubari, couldn't remember which ship it was off the top of my head at the moment. Other than one I don't see often. I knew the T6's and up had it, just remember seeing tier 4's and going "wth, how".

 

Strafing I feel is more it needs a rework. Though, that rework would be more a matter of it debuffs the attack planes accuracy for a period of time with little/no actual DPS boost and, so it has some influence in fighter vs fighter a small DPS buff against fighters caught in it for a short time as well, so as to give players some small measure of influence on the RNG. And fits more historically as well with the intent of what we call strafing which was really to break up a formation, rare is it that you'd see it devastate a group, more often maybe a couple planes downed in the initial pass, the rest in pursuit/dogfights. 

And at this standpoint - I only say nerf damage because honestly, I think it's the only way we can actually fix things in a way that would allow balance. CV's could still deal out lethal damage, however it would be a change in how and our tactics, or at least, some players tactics. Manual Drop is an issue, it's far too devastating to stay, however while some claim it would remove skill, I'd debate that, the bigger issue that I'd agree with is targets in smoke, targets too close to an island or something else, and targets you wish to attack from greater range. This allows for the excuse for AA to be buffed so high that some BB's are damn near immune to air attacks alone, let alone with another ship nearby. And the high alpha also gives cause for DB's to have atrocious accuracy and Saipan almost becomes the poster child of why you can't dial in USN DB's accuracy to be more effective and reduce or out right remove the need for TB's especially the 2,2,2 on Midway that has always been broken and never should have been re-added. Let alone what AP bombs have done to the game and what GZ may do when released given what I've seen of this last set of tests. 20% of a BB's HP is a bit much with just HE bombs or more precisely, just the hits, not even resulting fires. The one thing that can allow for manual drop to stay, but no longer devastate ships, meaning we can nerf AA, meaning DB's can be made more accurate and frankly useful, is to lower the alpha of CV attacks. That said, even though it may have a lower chance of dev striking a ship, least instantaneously, with attrition rates dropping significantly, and ability to now space out attacks, players can roll in with whatever the prefer first, TB's or DB's, to hit a ship that causes fire/flooding and once they repair it, time it out and hit them again. Or hit ships they've seen just burned it. Maybe even increase the fire and flood chances. Played right you'd still see overall high numbers from fires and floods, great at farming those flags if done well, as well as module destruction/incapacitation or flooding that slows a ship down that aid the team. Other than of course causing a detonation which would be the usual instakill. Which, would actually line it up quite nicely with history as well because especially with larger warships (I didn't get through every DD and the like destroyed by CV's) it was seldom actually the bomb or torpedo hits that really sunk the ship, but more often than not out of control fires, flooding, loss of power, etc that led to the ship sinking over time or being scuttled. Sure you have some unfortunate examples like Arizona where a hit caused a detonation that just blew it apart, but most took time and sometimes a great many hits.

1 change that leads to 3 issues solved because 2 other changes can then take place based off it. Though, I may be biased because I used to play USN AS, and so am very much accustomed to, when possible, staggering my attacks so that even if my initial hits deal little if any damage, the DoT racks up, therefore in that regard, the change wouldn't really affect me or my usual play, or at least less so than the removal of AS from USN instead of just fixing the damn fighters. 

Then again I'd see number of fighter groups equalized with an AS and strike option (so at tier 8, Lex would have 2,0,2 and 2,1,2 and Shokaku 2,2,2 and 1,3,2). Lower USN overall DPS of fighters (DPS in the tooltip x number of planes makes USN's higher), possibly buff it's ammo, maybe it's HP, and raise IJN's DPS, possibly lower it's ammo, to a point IJN has the initial edge, and can work, with exit strafing, a bit better at hit and run where, much as it is now, USN can just kinda loiter for days and tank, but without the ability to easily devastate IJN aircraft, they may take a couple losses but have a lower DPS drop off than IJN and can likely wait it out on ammo (which USN player then has to do risk/reward of staying engaged with fighters vs going after bombers). Dial in USN accuracy, maybe change the ellipse a little, up the HP a fair amount namely for the DB's, move it a bit more to a cruiser hunter. May want to still avoid the likes of Cleveland with DF AA going, but overall, have it be their optimal target, and a slight edge against DD's than IJN, and still able to take down BB's between torps in a strike loadout or just the sheer number of hits and fires started by DB's, where as IJN is more the capital ship hunter with those wide gaps in torp spreads (unless stacked right) that more agile ships can dodge and get through. And having it's attack planes have lower HP (especially given at the moment they are MORE durable than USN's) but between numbers (in terms of groups) and speed (which, they have that and numbers AND HP on USN which, having all that hardly seems right or fair) to simply overwhelm a targets AA, namely ones that may have a fair number of guns (CV/BB) but are not absolute AA monsters and score hits and run off. With the ships themselves maintaining better stealth (IJN) and better AA (USN). IJN stealthy, fast hitting capital ship hunters and USN tanky cruiser killers that are well protected from air attacks. Two unique flavours that are if done right balanced yet different. And leaves room to toy with things for future lines. 

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Depend on which DD it is. IJN i leave it off, Soviet i leave it on. The others on a case by case/ship by ship basis

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