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Captain_Slattery

No love for Russian Cruisers?

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Does anyone have an idea as to why there are so few (relatively speaking) people playing the Russian crusier line?

Sure, the're squishy but what cruiser isn't.  I find them to be pretty powerful (guns, guns, guns).  I spent a lot of time (also relatively speaking) working the US cruiser line (to tier 7) but started up the Russian line only recently and I find that, tier for tier,  the Russians match or are superior to the US counterpart.

The only US cruiser that might be better than the Russian counterpart is the St. Louis.  Not by much either.

What's the deal here?

 

Regards

CS

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For the moment it is probably just people prepping for the line split by grinding.

I do think you're correct though, I feel like I don't see them as much as I do other ships. Could be a favoritism on the NA server as well, Americans playing American ships. I honestly don't play my Russian cruisers that much but I'm not sure Why, I'm just not as drawn to them. Perhaps because they aren't really as unique to me as other ships.

Edited by Spieges

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bias to Russian cruisers because of Russian bias for Russian cruisers, LOL. But they are nice balanced ship but I personally not driven to go fast up the line.

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1 hour ago, Captain_Slattery said:

Does anyone have an idea as to why there are so few (relatively speaking) people playing the Russian crusier line?

Sure, the're squishy but what cruiser isn't.  I find them to be pretty powerful (guns, guns, guns).  I spent a lot of time (also relatively speaking) working the US cruiser line (to tier 7) but started up the Russian line only recently and I find that, tier for tier,  the Russians match or are superior to the US counterpart.

The only US cruiser that might be better than the Russian counterpart is the St. Louis.  Not by much either.

What's the deal here?

Regards

CS

They are very good for the right player, but for many players they can be frustrating. 

They are largely eggshells with railguns; they are largely squishy and not terribly maneuverable, so they are fairly specialized as second-line support ships, especially in mid to high tiers. If that is a style of play you enjoy, they are great. 

I love Budyonny; she's a blast because in mid-tiers I can get away with risks and aggressive play that gets me nuked higher up. But it's my weakest line from Shchors through Moskva because I am too aggressive for them. I have like a 35% win rate in Moskva; I'm just garbage in her. Love the guns but I can't make myself sit that far back. It's not the ships, it's me. I can do well with most lines but I just can't make myself play that long-range DPS game that pays off for them. 

And I think that's true of many players. Either they aren't good enough to recognize how to play them, they are too stubborn to/don't enjoy the playstyle needed for them, etc. It is a line with a reasonably high skill floor but a very high skill ceiling, and they are fantastic for those who can play them well, but I think many players get frustrated and drop them or, like me, realize they aren't suited for them. I'm glad I grinded through to Moskva because I get good use out of her situationally for some missions and challenges, but it is probably my least-played line except for Budyonny (which is my favorite t6 cruiser.)

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LIked Bogatyr. Even though it was in Co-op, my first 300+ hit game was in Bogy.

Got iffy at Kirov; stopped caring at Budyonny.

Got tired of exploding every time a seagull took a dump and hit the ship, or some crewman dropped a screwdriver.

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2 minutes ago, poeticmotion said:

Love the guns but I can't make myself sit that far back.

When I sit back, can't hit anything and still get blown to hell, there quickly ceases to be any point to continuing down the line.

As far as I'm concerned; Budyonny's only redeaming quality is her guns fire faster than Molotov's. (About Molotov; what's the point of having tier 9 guns, when the relaoad time is so long everything else blows you to hell and gone..)

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Working on Donskoi now just have other ships and tasks to do first. I have all of the Russian ships up to and including tier 9, all premiums too. I just need the XP for the tens and the Russian line will be complete. Good ships most of them.

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Just now, Estimated_Prophet said:

When I sit back, can't hit anything and still get blown to hell, there quickly ceases to be any point to continuing down the line.

As far as I'm concerned; Budyonny's only redeaming quality is her guns fire faster than Molotov's. (About Molotov; what's the point of having tier 9 guns, when the relaoad time is so long everything else blows you to hell and gone..)

YMMV. I average higher dmg in Budyonny than I do in most tier 8 cruisers. Her guns work well for me. I don't know why I do so well in Budyonny when I suck at literally every other Russian cruiser except Bogatyr, but she fits like a glove. 

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

When I sit back, can't hit anything and still get blown to hell, there quickly ceases to be any point to continuing down the line.

As far as I'm concerned; Budyonny's only redeaming quality is her guns fire faster than Molotov's. (About Molotov; what's the point of having tier 9 guns, when the relaoad time is so long everything else blows you to hell and gone..)

For Scenarios. Consistent results.

shot-18_05.16_20_01.00-0914.thumb.jpg.6d7efde60151984f1608fa3ff2f00f48.jpg

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1 minute ago, poeticmotion said:

I don't know why I do so well in Budyonny when I suck at literally every other Russian cruiser except Bogatyr, but she fits like a glove. 

...and that's just how it works sometimes.

I can't stand the RN cruisers after Emerald. I think their about the most overrated ships in the game. Explode like Russians, with half the available damage potentional. Yet I love Emerald; one of the most hated cruisers in the game. (I also love Mutsuki and Colorado; two other hated ships.)

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11 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

For Scenarios. Consistent results.

When I used Molotov before, it was worthless. Everything decided the  premium ship was a priority target and shot me to death.

Last time Raptor came around; I decided try again, to 'see if this T9 guns hype is real; or just more bull byproducts.'

Turned out to be pretty decent; but the balarina dance I had to do to stay far enough away from the moronic bots to keep them from 'prioritizing' me, made using it more of a chore than enjoyable.

Pretty much came to the conclution that Ops are the only place I care to use Molotov.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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As someone who really likes the Budyonny, I stopped really grinding the line because of the Donskoi. I loved the Budyonny so much that I kept it, I loved the Shchors, I loved the Chapayev, but the Donskoi is just... wrong for me. So until I find the Motivation to grind to the Moksva and then Play her a bit, it'll take some time.

The majority of them starting at T6 and higher is certainly not underperforming.but just frustrating in some cases (when they go boom).

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I found the line boring. I free-xpd past the Donskoi. Perhaps it was because I finished another cruiser line at the time.

edit: For taking caps I have a Des Moines and if I want to sit in the back and spam fire I have a Zao. Why would I even want to play Moskva.

Edited by LemonadeWarrior

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As somebody else mentioned, it's a high skill floor, high skill ceiling line. I enjoyed it(I'm a sucker for the accurate guns and can put up with weaknesses elsewhere) but I can see how it's not for everyone. Russian cruisers near their max range can torture other ships with precise salvos and they will struggle to return effective fire if you can kite skillfully...close and get more aggressive to taste.

Budyonny, Shchors, and Moskva are the highlights IMO.

...

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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4 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

I found the line boring. I free-xpd past the Donskoi. Perhaps it was because I finished another cruiser line at the time.

edit: For taking caps I have a Des Moines and if I want to sit in the back and spam fire I have a Zao. Why would I even want to play Moskva.

Moskva has rail guns and can sit much farther back than Zao can and expect to actually hit ships at that range. Moskva is pretty tanky if you angle; I inadvertently came head to head with a Yamato; 6 citadels and one dead Yamato. Then again, I tried it again recently and got killed. Still, my point being if push comes to shove, I feel I would have a better chance up close in my Moskva versus my Zao.

PS-- I hated Donskoi too. Chapayev is still my favorite though(squishy), but those guns are amazing fire hoses.

Edited by _Rumple_

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When I 1st started in WOWS I ground all 5 lines available at the time (US/IJN/KM/BRN/Russian) together and up to T5 in Cruisers. I liked the Russian line well enough until I hit the massive steaming turd that is Kirov. Oh how I hate that ship. No matter how I played it I just simply died over and over. Only 7 games in it, all in Co-op, and I died FIVE times!!!! I swear if you sneeze while playing the game that ship blows up. Absolutely no armor (makes Emerald and Pensacola look like BB's), it's the size of a continent and turns about as fast as one so it is super easy to hit, and it is almost impossible to WASD to avoid incoming and torps. HATED it. Just horrific stats in it because I could never live long enough to do anything. Stand off and spam HE or move up it didn't matter. 2 minutes in a salvo heads your way from pretty much any ship class and multiple citadels later (regardless of your angle) and down you go. Or a CV sends a torps squadron your way and down you go. The theme is down you go. LOL

I actually dropped the line after those 7 games and moved on to lines and ships I liked. It took me forever to come back but eventually I did. I wasn't playing Comrade TurdKirov again though so used FXP to Budyonny which is actually not too bad. Still squishy as heck but it can take a couple salvos before blowing up at least. Shchors is another soft as tissue ship like Kirov that god help you if you get hit. Didn't care for having to play it the way you do to live so after 12 games I used FXP to get to Chapayev. That one isn't too bad and is where I am right now. I would say it is Kirov/Shchors and then  Budyonny/Chapayev for similar ships in the T5-T8 range. It flip flops every other tier. I can stomach Budyonny and Chapayev but Kirov and Shchors are FXP past ships for me. 

Really the Russian line just doesn't suit me from T5-T8. I am an aggressive player and I like to move up in my Cruisers and attack, cap, hunt DD's, etc...  That doesn't work well with these T5-T8 ships. They are fast for sure but they have no armor to speak of, they have HORIBBLE maneuverability, and totally useless torps.  Just no tools to do anything but stay at range and spam away with HE while using concealment and cover to hide if anything even glances your way. Showing yourself is like being the proverbial Christian being thrown to the Lions. It seldom ends well. Just not how I like to play. 

I used the Russian Capt event to grind with Chapayev and thus I am a good ways towards Dmitri Donskoi. Once that is unlocked I am not sure I will buy it or not? Might just use FXP once more and go right to Moskva which is nothing like the rest of the line and more able to play like I want to. It actually has some armor at least and it has very good guns. I can do something with that.

Of the 5 original lines I started I am at T10 in US/KM/BRN because the lines overall were/are good (or at least let me play in a manner I was comfortable with) and I enjoyed playing them. IJN and Russian are still at T8 because I don't like the lines T5+ for Russian and T6+ for IJN. Been dragging my feet. I am also at T8 in French Cruisers even though they are a much newer line because they are good and I actually like playing them. 

Standard Russian tech tree Cruisers just don't do it for me T5-T8 so it has stalled my progression big time and I go long periods were I seldom play or don't play them at all. I will eventually get to T10 just out of stubbornness if nothing else.  What I find hilarious is I actually LOVE the T8 Russian Premium Mikahil Kutuzov. I wreck it in that ship and it is great. I also like Molotov fairly well and do good in it. Don't love it but like it a lot. The regular tech tree line though = meh to yuck for me. LOVE seeing them on the other end of my BB guns though.

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6 hours ago, Captain_Slattery said:

Does anyone have an idea as to why there are so few (relatively speaking) people playing the Russian crusier line?

Sure, the're squishy but what cruiser isn't.  I find them to be pretty powerful (guns, guns, guns).  I spent a lot of time (also relatively speaking) working the US cruiser line (to tier 7) but started up the Russian line only recently and I find that, tier for tier,  the Russians match or are superior to the US counterpart.

The only US cruiser that might be better than the Russian counterpart is the St. Louis.  Not by much either.

What's the deal here?

 

Regards

CS

First off some disagree with my following reasons, but in WOT Blitz I ran careful tests and included many friends so the tests could be observed and reacted to get accurate results. What we found was that Wargaming uses real world historical data and reasonable amount of real world physics in their vehicles. So with the tanks being able to fire accurately in the tests we found that critical modules such as Fuel Tanks, Ammo storage, engines, the traverse ring, crew positions, armor weakspots like viewports, hatches, Maintenance access panels, ect. They were all there, the armor for most part was accurate, the guns displayed the historical data well too. Like I had heard Russian tank crews were often hastily / poorly trained, so things like gunnacvuracy and reload times would be affected which translated into game performance while Germans were well trained and their gun accuracy and reload was rather efficient.

But of course Wargaming does manipulate the data some for the game, but the heart of the real worl versions is in their vehicles. Like I said they use the real world data as general guideline.

 

So while some of the above may not matter quite as much in WOWs, there is still a lot that does apply. Look at history, was Russian Navy one of the top Navies in the world? Possibly some what respectable Pre WWI era until IJN sank the Russian Pacific and Atlantic Fleets leaving Russia only Baltic Fleet. From that time until the Cold War Era Russia only had coastal defense Navy basically, which was not well eqquiped to fight off one of the Naval powers in the World. Russia leading up to WWII and during WWII put most of their military spending and focus into ground forces as well as air power. For Russia this makes sense because of the size of Soviet Union and their position in the world making land battles far more likely and Necessary.

So Wargaming using Russian Tanks for their games works out reasonably well, but Russian ships not as much. Big difference between doing coastal operations and fighting in maybe naval warfare operations. Plus if you consider the politics at the time the ships and tanks were designed, consider how creative the designers were allowed to be ( or not allowed to be), how long they would be given to “ perfect” the designs, training level of people that had to build the vehicles. Design flaws could and often would occur, not to mention some of the designs from the time period could be rather clumsy or very least inexperienced.

Tanks you don’t always need that much precision or experience if you can slap some armor plates together quickly, throw The means to get  the vehicle moving, and give it some firepower, and if you can build tens of thousands of them then you can do ok. Ships tend to be a little more demanding, especially Warships. You make a clumsy / inexperienced design, there are far more variables to go wrong for Warships. Thankfully in WOWs we don’t have to worry about some of the normal risks that can put a ship out of commission, only combat in in the game. But even just combat the flaws become apparent on the ships.

Personally I stick with the nations that were / are major Naval powers. Great Britain, United States, Japan, Germany, France, and Italy (once their lines get added). Commonwealth and Pan Asian ships are from these nations so they do alright as well.

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7 hours ago, Captain_Slattery said:

Does anyone have an idea as to why there are so few (relatively speaking) people playing the Russian crusier line?

Sure, the're squishy but what cruiser isn't.  I find them to be pretty powerful (guns, guns, guns).  I spent a lot of time (also relatively speaking) working the US cruiser line (to tier 7) but started up the Russian line only recently and I find that, tier for tier,  the Russians match or are superior to the US counterpart.

The only US cruiser that might be better than the Russian counterpart is the St. Louis.  Not by much either.

What's the deal here?

 

Regards

CS

I went down the US line to the Pensacola than found the lack of Torps after Cleveland made the line less fun for me and did the Japanese line, never did the Russian line because of being fradgile ships, played many games in the Premium ship Murmansk which is made of glass but has the best rudder shift of any Cruiser any tier and has a fighting chance

 The Murmansk is my favorite Cruiser but not the Russian line

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3 hours ago, _Rumple_ said:

Moskva has rail guns and can sit much farther back than Zao can and expect to actually hit ships at that range. Moskva is pretty tanky if you angle; I inadvertently came head to head with a Yamato; 6 citadels and one dead Yamato. Then again, I tried it again recently and got killed. Still, my point being if push comes to shove, I feel I would have a better chance up close in my Moskva versus my Zao.

PS-- I hated Donskoi too. Chapayev is still my favorite though(squishy), but those guns are amazing fire hoses.

I dont use the range mod on Moskva, but I do on my Zao, which makes the range difference only 0.6 km. With both ships I dont have much of a problem hitting ships at those ranges.
Guess it is a difference of taste.

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I also switched out the range mod on my Dmitri Donskoi for the reload mod, since I found myself sitting too far back and not hitting much, and wanted the extra DPM when closer, so I could have more impact.

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Russian Ships in NA server have always gravitated towards the low Battles played end.  There are some very effective ships in the RU Cruiser and Destroyer Lines, but that doesn't help them in seeing more action.  Even Moskva doesn't see as much action.

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I really thought the grind was easier than the American cruiser line. Really enjoyed the late tier ships the most though Donski the most. I am going to rebuy Donski at some point. Ships are good at midrange -long range.

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I enjoy playing the T6 and T7 Russian cruisers in scenarios and usually do well with them.   US cruisers are still my go-to cruisers of choice but that is mostly because I started with them and have progressed to T10, the Des Moines.

The accurate guns usually means I get a ton of citadel hits in scenarios.

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How is the T9 and why do so many people hate it? I've enjoyed the entire line so far.

I'm currently on the Chappy and love it. Rail guns, lots of fires, kinda frustrating when you cant find an island low enough to shoot over though but its manageable. 

Edited by Jellytime__

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2 hours ago, Jellytime__ said:

How is the T9 and why do so many people hate it? I've enjoyed the entire line so far.

I'm currently on the Chappy and love it. Rail guns, lots of fires, kinda frustrating when you cant find an island low enough to shoot over though but its manageable. 

Donskoi is a fine ship by T9 standard but most T9 ships are on the weak side. They get heal and extra upgrade. But the ship itself usually has little upgrade over the preceding ship. 

For Donskoi's case, she has same number guns with larger caliber compared to Chapayev. But the RoF is much lower. So overall, your HE spamming efficiency is lower than Chapayev. She does get faster travelling shells so you do have more impactful AP at range.

Her concealment is much worse than Chapayev. That means it is much harder to bully DDs. Your early game impact is usually much worse than Chapayev.

Her other weakness is the bad forward firing angle. This makes her bad at chasing ships despite her decent speed.

Overall, she is a decent ship but lacks a defining feature. Chapayev is defined but her great concealment in combination with radar and fast firing guns.

In other words, Donskoi really doesn't excel in any category. She is just one of those okayish but boring heavy cruisers.

Edited by Exciton8964

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