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Ceesa

New Cruiser Suggestion - Torp Focus

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I've played the full line of US and IJN cruisers, and I'm up to the Neptune with the Brits.  And while I do enjoy the US line, I like the other two a bit more because they have torpedoes at the higher tiers.  I love using them and I love the feeling of shoving a full spread down a BB's throat.  So now that it seems WG is getting ready to release a few Russian CAs that look and act a lot more like battleships than cruisers, it got me thinking that I'd be interested in a premium cruiser which acted a bit more like a DD than a CL.  I would love a CA that could easily stealth torp, which practically speaking means 12-15 km torps with a concealment (including all bonuses) of around 9-10 km.  It doesn't need all the best consumables, crazy high hp, or amazing AA.  I'd just like good speed, decent guns (203s), and good torp firing angles.  Give it crappy armor, no smoke, no radar for balance, but please bless it with def AA.  

Glass cannon stealth torp cruiser.  Throw it in at t8, maybe?  I think it might be fun.   

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Not a CA, but if they ever bring in the later-war IJN CLs like the Agano class, they might be able to work kind of like that. They were actually designed with a heavy torpedo focus.

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19 minutes ago, Poharan said:

Not a CA, but if they ever bring in the later-war IJN CLs like the Agano class, they might be able to work kind of like that. They were actually designed with a heavy torpedo focus.

Eh. Agano class was designed as a DDL, so its 4 x 2 mount type 93s is only making them on par with DD's it would lead in terms of salvo.  That said, having them center mount makes firing the whole batch much easier.  6", 2 x 3 mounts doesn't seem that great when compared to other CLs in from the same period.

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25 minutes ago, Ceesa said:

 

Glass cannon stealth torp cruiser.  Throw it in at t8, maybe?  I think it might be fun.   

There is a Kuma variant that is Torpedo focused... the Kitakami

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3 minutes ago, Iridium81 said:

Eh. Agano class was designed as a DDL, so its 4 x 2 mount type 93s is only making them on par with DD's it would lead in terms of salvo.  That said, having them center mount makes firing the whole batch much easier.  6", 2 x 3 mounts doesn't seem that great when compared to other CLs in from the same period.

Don't you think that makes them particularly suited for the kind of gameplay OP is suggesting though?

Aside from the 203s, it seems to fit the bill pretty well.

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11 minutes ago, Poharan said:

Don't you think that makes them particularly suited for the kind of gameplay OP is suggesting though?

Aside from the 203s, it seems to fit the bill pretty well.

It merely equals a DD in salvo size.  Meanwhile has a significant upgrade over DDs in that of a six inch battery.  Downsides, it's protected by a 76 mm belt iirc, and has four newer 3" guns in single mounts which would be good for AA only, citadel would likely be of similar IJN cruiser lineage.  It is a reliable design when used in its intended purpose (facing enemy DDs), but shouldn't face other cruisers at anything above tier 4 if we ignore it's torpedoes.

Why take a cruiser that only matches a DD in torpedo attack performance, if you not going to use the guns and negate your stealth?  It seems to be a compromise in reality due to limited resources, and a desire for new destroyer leaders to replace the aging Kuma/Sendai/5,500 ton CL classes.  It doesn't translate well into the game without some shoehorns. 

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1 minute ago, Iridium81 said:

It merely equals a DD in salvo size.  Meanwhile has a significant upgrade over DRs in that of a six inch battery.  Downsides, it's protected by a 76 mm belt iirc, and has four newer 3" guns in single mounts which would be good for AA only, citadel would likely be of similar IJN cruiser lineage.  It is a reliable design when used in its intended purpose (facing enemy DDs), but shouldn't face other cruisers at anything above tier 4 if we ignore it's torpedoes.

Well, KTKM was just a Kuma with an abundance of torps that they shoved into T8. I'm sure WG could figure out something to make an Agano work. Would probably involve GIMMICKStm.

I think the idea of keeping the torpedo salvo reasonably light (for a cruiser) is a good idea when thinking of a cruiser with the role of stealth torping anyway. And to prevent a repeat of the KTKM herself.

I can't really think of anything else that would come close to fitting OPs requirements, myself, though.

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Just now, Poharan said:

Well, KTKM was just a Kuma with an abundance of torps that they shoved into T8. I'm sure WG could figure out something to make an Agano work. Would probably involve GIMMICKStm.

I think the idea of keeping the torpedo salvo reasonably light (for a cruiser) is a good idea when thinking of a cruiser with the role of stealth torping anyway. And to prevent a repeat of the KTKM herself.

I can't really think of anything else that would come close to fitting OPs requirements, myself, though.

I just can't think of any reason to take a cruiser with all the baggage that brings, that would make it worth taking over a DD.  Even with cruiser consumables; CLs have citadels, and will be a bit less stealthy than DDs, its stuck in an awkward place overall.  Might as well take Kiev for comparison.

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3 minutes ago, Iridium81 said:

I just can't think of any reason to take a cruiser with all the baggage that brings, that would make it worth taking over a DD.  Even with cruiser consumables; CLs have citadels, and will be a bit less stealthy than DDs, its stuck in an awkward place overall.  Might as well take Kiev for comparison.

Well, that's kind of what OP was asking for. I'm just guessing at what ships might be suitable for the role.

And Yuubari is kind of like that in game, yet she has her place. Sometimes it's not about having a super competitive ship, and it's more about having one people just have fun playing.

Edited by Poharan

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1 minute ago, Poharan said:

Well, that's kind of what OP was asking for. I'm just guessing at what ships might be suitable for the role.

And Yuubari is kind of like that in game, yet she has her place. Sometimes it's not about having a super competitive ship, and it's more about having one people just have fun playing.

Its ironic that you bring Yubari up because it too was designed to replace 5,500 ton cruisers on a much smaller displacement.  Japan was trying to pack the firepower of the CLs into a smaller format, and it succeeded in proving many design theories, but ultimately failed as a ship.  Good prototype for testing purposes regardless.  All good, but still only meant to lead DDs.  Agano is odd only because it was designed in 1941, built in late '43-44.  Meanwhile the closest CL to compare against it would be something like the Arethusa class built in 1934.  As you say it might fit as a fun, but not a competitive ship.

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Convince Wg on a way to balance Kitakami and then get them to reintroduce her. Then when that's done then convince them for a line. It all starts from a prototype all these premiums aren't just out there to make money, they are designed to test some mechanics for future lines. Pan Asian cruisers for instance and Huang He having TRB. 

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I played WoWs in two spurts, one close to release and the other started a couple years ago.  I completely missed the Kitakami, but if you gave it some better guns then it does sound, at least in terms of gameplay, fairly close to what I was imagining.  Thanks to everyone for a productive discussion.  I admit the cruiser would have some issues fitting into the game, and I'm fairly certain that it would never be a meta ship, but I like ships that give new gameplay experiences, even if they aren't optimal ones, so this was just a concept.  

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Pound for pound the Emerald has the potential to be quite the torpedo cruiser. 16 tubes on a fairly small post-WWI hull. WG has implemented her as a pretty sad T6, but with 10-12km torpedoes, a better concealment and removing the repair/smoke she could be redeveloped into a fairly potent torpedo cruiser.

 

The Agano's could as well, though one of the in-game issues I suspect would be torpedo launch angles.

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CA torps would be a lot better if they had more range. Nobody has more than 10km except the pasta botes and that's why they're actually quite useful.

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On 5/16/2018 at 12:55 PM, Ceesa said:

I've played the full line of US and IJN cruisers, and I'm up to the Neptune with the Brits.  And while I do enjoy the US line, I like the other two a bit more because they have torpedoes at the higher tiers.  I love using them and I love the feeling of shoving a full spread down a BB's throat.  So now that it seems WG is getting ready to release a few Russian CAs that look and act a lot more like battleships than cruisers, it got me thinking that I'd be interested in a premium cruiser which acted a bit more like a DD than a CL.  I would love a CA that could easily stealth torp, which practically speaking means 12-15 km torps with a concealment (including all bonuses) of around 9-10 km.  It doesn't need all the best consumables, crazy high hp, or amazing AA.  I'd just like good speed, decent guns (203s), and good torp firing angles.  Give it crappy armor, no smoke, no radar for balance, but please bless it with def AA.  

Glass cannon stealth torp cruiser.  Throw it in at t8, maybe?  I think it might be fun.   

Have I missed something? Doesnt that describe the Atago to a tee already?

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4 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Have I missed something? Doesnt that describe the Atago to a tee already?

hey, I have that ship...its an atago!

 

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On 5/17/2018 at 6:08 AM, UltimateNewbie said:

Have I missed something? Doesnt that describe the Atago to a tee already?

If you gave it longer range torps then yeah, that's about right.  

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On 5/15/2018 at 10:23 PM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

There is a Kuma variant that is Torpedo focused... the Kitakami

Hush you. Remember we never speak of the ship that shall not be named anymore. It was an evil ship (more so to friendlies than it was to enemies). Now go sit in the corner and think about what you did.

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On 5/15/2018 at 10:55 PM, Ceesa said:

I've played the full line of US and IJN cruisers, and I'm up to the Neptune with the Brits.  And while I do enjoy the US line, I like the other two a bit more because they have torpedoes at the higher tiers.  I love using them and I love the feeling of shoving a full spread down a BB's throat.  So now that it seems WG is getting ready to release a few Russian CAs that look and act a lot more like battleships than cruisers, it got me thinking that I'd be interested in a premium cruiser which acted a bit more like a DD than a CL.  I would love a CA that could easily stealth torp, which practically speaking means 12-15 km torps with a concealment (including all bonuses) of around 9-10 km.  It doesn't need all the best consumables, crazy high hp, or amazing AA.  I'd just like good speed, decent guns (203s), and good torp firing angles.  Give it crappy armor, no smoke, no radar for balance, but please bless it with def AA.  

Glass cannon stealth torp cruiser.  Throw it in at t8, maybe?  I think it might be fun.   

theres a reason the USN stopped putting torpedoes on their cruisers, by chance, have you heard the story of what happened to the Japanese cruiser Chokai? but most, if not all, other navies had torps on their cruisers

Edited by tcbaker777

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On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:55 PM, Ceesa said:

...Glass cannon stealth torp cruiser.   I think it might be fun....   

WG already had a ship exactly like this in Alpha and a little while in Beta called the Kitakami.  They also balanced it by deleting it.

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So Kitakami 2.0?

Or the old Senjou (aka IJN Des Moines w/ Moskva-level Firestarting Railguns and 20km Long Lances)?

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