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dmckay

Higher tiers?

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Just lost a match in Scharn. Got in a match where both sides were tier 8-9 and I was only tier 7 ship in game. My team killed 3 ships.  THREE.  I got 1 and was #2 on team in kills and damage. My team played like a bunch of tier 2 noobs and I hate to say that cause I don't like to rank on teams (it is what it is) but this was pretty unreal. Highest tier match I have ever been in but my team RAN or sat (4 of em) in back doing nothing with their sniping. Others went FAR left or right splitting themselves up and pretty much taking themselves out of effective killing range. Very fearful team. 3 cap map and the reds just merrily took all 3 caps easily. I am sure not all higher tier matches go like this but man I was kinda freaked out. Initially I was rather excited about being in a match with so many high tier ships then I watched as my guys in great and powerful ships just LET us get beat.  I am not great at all for sure but just me and 1 other guy actually fought with any effect. 1 player stuck with me and attacked. I was thinking bout buying Tirpitz but this match with higher tier ships kinda disillusioned me.  But it was just one match of course.  Now I am sure not all games with high tier ships are like this but I gonna drop back to tier 3-4 for awhile where most all players at least FIGHT. There.  Fun rant!  Comments bout higher tier play?  :Smile_facepalm:

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High tiers has gotten worse over the last year or so.

Many of the quality players have left for competitive games, and the rest of the players really seem to treat this game like a phone game, sail ships, shoot stuff, rinse and repeat.

Add to the Clan wars generating a whole new class of wallet warriors who bypass low tier altogether, and you have our current situation....:Smile_amazed:

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46 minutes ago, awiggin said:

High tiers has gotten worse over the last year or so.

Many of the quality players have left for competitive games, and the rest of the players really seem to treat this game like a phone game, sail ships, shoot stuff, rinse and repeat.

Add to the Clan wars generating a whole new class of wallet warriors who bypass low tier altogether, and you have our current situation....:Smile_amazed:

Agree, and WoWs refusal to even try to balance out ships rather than just give them additional gimmicks is not helping at all.

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50 minutes ago, awiggin said:

High tiers has gotten worse over the last year or so.

Many of the quality players have left for competitive games, and the rest of the players really seem to treat this game like a phone game, sail ships, shoot stuff, rinse and repeat.

Add to the Clan wars generating a whole new class of wallet warriors who bypass low tier altogether, and you have our current situation....:Smile_amazed:

Boy you hit it right between the eyes , I've noticed a lot of theses new  players have only one battle in tier one's and tier two and no more then 500 battles total and playing in a tier eight and tier nine ships already ? ? ?

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As a newer player. I have observed the same.

 

My thoughts on the game so far....

They need to tighten up the MM you should not be facing ships 3 tiers higher, the OP gave an example of being outclasses by 2 tiers. I played three games last night where I was over classed by three tiers. I still fought but it was a slaughter, they just sat back and pummeled.

They need to give more emphasis on rewarding the ships that at least try to win, rather than those who hang back and farm damage.

The current META is BB damage farming and DD smoke and torp trolls. the CA seem to have almost no real use in the game.

Lastly, the inability to advance a ship line through research without having to throw money at the screen is stupid.... They need to have a way to convert ship XP to free XP that can go towards the next ship in the line (only) to foster some kind of advancement game play that does not require pulling out my wallet each and every day.

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10 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

They need to tighten up the MM you should not be facing ships 3 tiers higher, the OP gave an example of being outclasses by 2 tiers. I played three games last night where I was over classed by three tiers.

I am calling this nonsense, unless you were in a fail division you can ONLY see ships 2 tiers higher than yours, and if you were in a fail division then the fault is all yours. Show me a screen shot or you're full of [edited].

10 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

They need to give more emphasis on rewarding the ships that at least try to win, rather than those who hang back and farm damage.

Good luck with that; WoW has been trying to get players off the back rail for 2 years now.

10 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

The current META is BB damage farming and DD smoke and torp trolls. the CA seem to have almost no real use in the game.

Then you're playing the cruisers wrong; mine are quite effective.

10 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

Lastly, the inability to advance a ship line through research without having to throw money at the screen is stupid.... They need to have a way to convert ship XP to free XP that can go towards the next ship in the line (only) to foster some kind of advancement game play that does not require pulling out my wallet each and every day.

All you have to do to get this implemented is convince WoW that they have no need to make money ... good luck with that.

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13 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

As a newer player. I have observed the same.

 

My thoughts on the game so far....

They need to tighten up the MM you should not be facing ships 3 tiers higher, the OP gave an example of being outclasses by 2 tiers. I played three games last night where I was over classed by three tiers. I still fought but it was a slaughter, they just sat back and pummeled.

They need to give more emphasis on rewarding the ships that at least try to win, rather than those who hang back and farm damage.

The current META is BB damage farming and DD smoke and torp trolls. the CA seem to have almost no real use in the game.

Lastly, the inability to advance a ship line through research without having to throw money at the screen is stupid.... They need to have a way to convert ship XP to free XP that can go towards the next ship in the line (only) to foster some kind of advancement game play that does not require pulling out my wallet each and every day.

First of all, there is no way you saw ships "three tiers higher" than you unless you were part of a fail division.  Remember that MM will only uptier a player two levels.  The exception would be if a division partner is already a tier higher than you, which case you can be dragged into a tier three levels up.  The lesson is learn how MM works before divisioning. 

Secondly, WG is a for-profit organization.  The game is already FTP, but WG has a right to make money on the product it offers.  

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Good players have moved down tiers and bad players have moved up. That’s not to say Tier 10 isn’t more competitive but you get potatoes everywhere. High tiers do have boats which are more instantly punishing of mistakes, and I think that does help keep out weaker players due to frustration. The skill gap is shrinking, though.

IMHO the gameplay problems could be greatly improved if WG had a proper formula for XP.  Currently WG rewards sniping from the back far too heavily, and that is the real problem.  Why cap or support your DD when you can safely blast HE from 20k behind a rock and end up with more XP?

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9 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I am calling this nonsense, unless you were in a fail division you can ONLY see ships 2 tiers higher than yours, and if you were inn a fail division then the fault is all yours. Show me a screen shot or you're full of [edited].

 

You are correct... I just looked at my Tirpitz and realized its T-8, not 7

It may be a waste of time to post the other observations but they are glaring.

Yes you can pull off 200k cruiser runs but that is just damage, the role of a cruiser is not focused enough IMO.... they do not (at many tiers) have the tools to do anything other than damage farm... There is little tactical reason for them, IMO

Edited by Algraxa

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1 hour ago, awiggin said:

High tiers has gotten worse over the last year or so.

Many of the quality players have left for competitive games, and the rest of the players really seem to treat this game like a phone game, sail ships, shoot stuff, rinse and repeat.

Add to the Clan wars generating a whole new class of wallet warriors who bypass low tier altogether, and you have our current situation....:Smile_amazed:

The other thing quality players have done is move back down to mid tiers or low tiers when high tiers are bad. Same kind of thing happens in WoT Blitz, High Tier can end up being a mess on some days and when that happens you will find the quality players are in mid tiers.

 

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27 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

You are correct... I just looked at my Tirpitz and realized its T-8, not 7

It may be a waste of time to post the other observations but they are glaring.

Yes you can pull off 200k cruiser runs but that is just damage, the role of a cruiser is not focused enough IMO.... they do not (at many tiers) have the tools to do anything other than damage farm... There is little tactical reason for them, IMO

There is good tactical reason to be in a cruiser. I do enough damage and constantly keep BB's on fire and force them back away from caps. As for DD's, every time one is within my gun range, I fire at them. I may not always hit them, but trust me, they know they are being targetted.

To say cruisers don't provide either tactical or strategic input into the game is naive. Either that, or you're not playing cruisers well.

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1 hour ago, Algraxa said:

As a newer player. I have observed the same.

 

My thoughts on the game so far....

They need to tighten up the MM you should not be facing ships 3 tiers higher, the OP gave an example of being outclasses by 2 tiers. I played three games last night where I was over classed by three tiers. I still fought but it was a slaughter, they just sat back and pummeled.

They need to give more emphasis on rewarding the ships that at least try to win, rather than those who hang back and farm damage.

The current META is BB damage farming and DD smoke and torp trolls. the CA seem to have almost no real use in the game.

Lastly, the inability to advance a ship line through research without having to throw money at the screen is stupid.... They need to have a way to convert ship XP to free XP that can go towards the next ship in the line (only) to foster some kind of advancement game play that does not require pulling out my wallet each and every day.

https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1030861178,Algraxa/

You've only played a tier 1 cruiser so i don't know what business you have commenting on the usefulness of CA's in the game. And you don't have to convert free exp if you were actually playing tech tree ships and not premiums. As it stands you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

EDIT: Come to find out that most of your battles are in co-op which means you're going against bots. You've only played a handful of random battles. 

Algraxa.PNG

Edited by Dont_Lewd_The_Loli
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51 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

they do not (at many tiers) have the tools to do anything other than damage farm

The main point of this game, though not the only one, is to damage farm; besides winning for the extra bonus, little else really matters.

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2 hours ago, KURT_WOLFF said:

Boy you hit it right between the eyes , I've noticed a lot of theses new  players have only one battle in tier one's and tier two and no more then 500 battles total and playing in a tier eight and tier nine ships already ? ? ?

Kurt it was apparent to me that most of the players in this match I spoke of had NO business being in the ships they were in. BIG spiffy expensive tier 8-9 BBs but they hardly fought them....fearful as hell.  Horrific back line sitters and run-awayers. OK, WG must sell ships and make $ and I totally am ok with that.  It's just kinda sad that a player can't wait for at least several hundred games or a thousand before he/she buys a high tier ship.  Seems many think the higher you are in tiers the greater you are or some damn thing. Ego trip?  But it's allowed and, as I said, I understand. Hell I had well over 2,000 games before I bought Scharnhorst and have done ok (for me, heh) with her. Had her up to 53% win rate but I think I am bout 52% now last time I looked. Not great at all but ok with me! I am far from a great player at 48% overall but have been improving. Trying anyway but this is not my life. I think I am just going to sit on her and go no higher in tiers at least for now. Besides I like playing tiers 3-4-5-6-7. Not sure I would have a lotta fun if I go up into that cold thin air higher up....at least for now.  Am not Sir Edmund Hillary (Everest) I know my limitations and skill level. Etc. etc. blah blah.

I am NOT for banning newer players from zooming up to high tiers.  I just wish they would wait until they learn what the W key is for. :Smile_teethhappy:

Gee I want that Tirpitz.  Gee...I do. But I see she has not done all that well and I imagine it's because she must face tier 9-10 ships much of the time.  Maybe.  I dunno.

Edited by dmckay

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1 hour ago, Algraxa said:

 

My thoughts on the game so far....

They need to tighten up the MM you should not be facing ships 3 tiers higher, the OP gave an example of being outclasses by 2 tiers. I played three games last night where I was over classed by three tiers. I still fought but it was a slaughter, they just sat back and pummeled.

The only way that happened was if you divisioned with a ship a tier higher. 

Quote

They need to give more emphasis on rewarding the ships that at least try to win, rather than those who hang back and farm damage.

You want the big rewards? Try to win AND do lots of damage.

Quote

The current META is BB damage farming and DD smoke and torp trolls. the CA seem to have almost no real use in the game.

Those things are all part of the tool box, they are necessary at times. Decent players use them, but don't solely rely on them, and do what's appropriate, when it's appropriate.

As for CA, of course they have a use. Their "meta" is lighting things on fire. (again though, that's not all a decent CA player does)

Quote

Lastly, the inability to advance a ship line through research without having to throw money at the screen is stupid.... They need to have a way to convert ship XP to free XP that can go towards the next ship in the line (only) to foster some kind of advancement game play that does not require pulling out my wallet each and every day.

I don't get what you're saying. I got up to Tier 6 in all the DD lines except PA, and Tier 8 in everything else but RN and MN BBs, without paying a dime.

Or is it that you're upset that the T8 premium you bought won't automatically allow you to skip playing a bunch of ships?

As someone who played all the ships that lead up to the ones I have now, I have no sympathy. Nothing's for nothing, you can put in effort or money.

 

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3 hours ago, dmckay said:

Just lost a match in Scharn. Got in a match where both sides were tier 8-9 and I was only tier 7 ship in game. My team killed 3 ships.  THREE.  I got 1 and was #2 on team in kills and damage. My team played like a bunch of tier 2 noobs and I hate to say that cause I don't like to rank on teams (it is what it is) but this was pretty unreal. Highest tier match I have ever been in but my team RAN or sat (4 of em) in back doing nothing with their sniping. Others went FAR left or right splitting themselves up and pretty much taking themselves out of effective killing range. Very fearful team. 3 cap map and the reds just merrily took all 3 caps easily. I am sure not all higher tier matches go like this but man I was kinda freaked out. Initially I was rather excited about being in a match with so many high tier ships then I watched as my guys in great and powerful ships just LET us get beat.  I am not great at all for sure but just me and 1 other guy actually fought with any effect. 1 player stuck with me and attacked. I was thinking bout buying Tirpitz but this match with higher tier ships kinda disillusioned me.  But it was just one match of course.  Now I am sure not all games with high tier ships are like this but I gonna drop back to tier 3-4 for awhile where most all players at least FIGHT. There.  Fun rant!  Comments bout higher tier play?  :Smile_facepalm:

High tier gameplay is TRASH, seven is about as high as I like to go. I played one tier 10 game this weekend. I had two unicom players in my division and out team got roffelstomped. They whipped me so bad they made me say my name is Toby. We finished 1,2,3 on our "Team" but it gives you an idea how bad the team was when three very high-level players couldn't carry or even stop a complete one-sided beating.

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2 hours ago, Algraxa said:

Lastly, the inability to advance a ship line through research without having to throw money at the screen is stupid.... They need to have a way to convert ship XP to free XP that can go towards the next ship in the line (only) to foster some kind of advancement game play that does not require pulling out my wallet each and every day.

3

I have a clanmate who is a non premium player who has not spent a single penny on the game and he has tier ten ships. So you can advance through the ship lines without spending a single cent if you wish.

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3 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I have a clanmate who is a non premium player who has not spent a single penny on the game and he has tier ten ships. So you can advance through the ship lines without spending a single cent if you wish.

I must be missing something, (granted I am a newb) but I thought free XP was the only way to unlock a hull.... It seems I am mistaken? Does ship XP compile to unlock the next hull with only credit use?

 

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1 hour ago, _Rumple_ said:

There is good tactical reason to be in a cruiser. I do enough damage and constantly keep BB's on fire and force them back away from caps. As for DD's, every time one is within my gun range, I fire at them. I may not always hit them, but trust me, they know they are being targetted.

To say cruisers don't provide either tactical or strategic input into the game is naive. Either that, or you're not playing cruisers well.

Yeah I enjoy my cruisers, so many varieties of them that there is something for everyone often times. Graf Spee for example comes close to being a BB with those guns and sits within the blurred edges of the line between CAs and BBs just like some BBs like Gneisenau and Scharnhorst try to act like cruisers with their speed and torpedoes.

IJN CAs bring great HE shells, stealth, Hydro, and torpedoes to the battlefield.

USN CAs get decent guns and great AA tier VI+ and 

KM CAs use German hydro, medium range torps, good rate of fire, long gun range.

RN Cruisers can provide their own smoke screens.

 

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12 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

High tier gameplay is TRASH, seven is about as high as I like to go. I played one tier 10 game this weekend. I had two unicom players in my division and out team got roffelstomped. They whipped me so bad they made me say my name is Toby. We finished 1,2,3 on our "Team" but it gives you an idea how bad the team was when three very high-level players couldn't carry or even stop a complete one-sided beating.

Yeah I know the feeling, thankfully only get those teams sporadically, although think I earned the right to get them sporadically after getting a Solid 3 weeks of them last year... Still rebuilding my WR after that lol. And I most use mid tiers  as well.

But Tier 8 can be good still if you use ships like full secondary built Bismarck ( Tirpitz would work as well if you have one), or Kagero with Torp Reload booster and Premium Consumables, Amagi is still good, Mogami if used in certain areas can strip away those annoying enemy DDs, and burn BBs down to the water or play hide and seek and Torp with enemy ships. Tiers 8 is the upper edge of my steadily used tiers and ships though, and I am quite selective about which ships I use at tier 8 with full knowledge that I may need to carry an X team. Worth the trouble though since Bismarck has my only 19 point Captain and has been great at collecting Elite Captain XP to feed into my lower Captains, and as annoying as tier X can be Yamato is not far off from 19 points either, so is Missouri as well.

Tier 9 I mainly use for Missouri if I need to resupply credits and happen to have some premium time. Some Missouri battles with premium time can set me up with enough credits to buy ships, modules, upgrades, and to run even full premium Consumables on my mid tier ships for good while. Plus it has trained a good captain at much faster rate that can be used on my Texas.

Tier X I use my Yamato and usually when I need to collect a larger amount of Free XP and there is either premium time or 200% daily bonus.

 

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2 hours ago, Algraxa said:

 

Yes you can pull off 200k cruiser runs but that is just damage, the role of a cruiser is not focused enough IMO.... they do not (at many tiers) have the tools to do anything other than damage farm... There is little tactical reason for them, IMO

How would you know? A single Black Swan game is the extent of your cruiser experience in Random Battles.

As someone who used to be a BB main, but now has more CA games than BB games, I strongly disagree.

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49 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

I must be missing something, (granted I am a newb) but I thought free XP was the only way to unlock a hull.... It seems I am mistaken? Does ship XP compile to unlock the next hull with only credit use?

 

Not at all!

The ship XP does indeed go towards the next ship. And you can also skip upgrades (except the hull) and get the next ship faster. (not generally recommended though)

I apologise for my earlier tone. I was under the impression you bought those premium ships, hoping to skip through the lines.

Where those premium ships will come in handy is increased credit gain over regular ships, and training captains for regular ships. (premium ships also have increased ship XP gain, and captain XP is derived from ship XP)

 

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3 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

The other thing quality players have done is move back down to mid tiers or low tiers when high tiers are bad. Same kind of thing happens in WoT Blitz, High Tier can end up being a mess on some days and when that happens you will find the quality players are in mid tiers.

 

They do that to protect their win rates  and i can't lame them.

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39 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Not at all!

The ship XP does indeed go towards the next ship. And you can also skip upgrades (except the hull) and get the next ship faster. (not generally recommended though)

I apologise for my earlier tone. I was under the impression you bought those premium ships, hoping to skip through the lines.

Where those premium ships will come in handy is increased credit gain over regular ships, and training captains for regular ships. (premium ships also have increased ship XP gain, and captain XP is derived from ship XP)

 

TY, been searching for the answer but it looks like you need to sell a ship to get a port slot or 300DB will be needed. Is there any info somewhere on the conversion from ship XP to research XP? i.e. how much sip XP you need to grind before just paying base credits not DB... been hunting the interwebs but my google foo is not finding the answer.

 

Example I have a crappo commander with 3859 ship XP on the T1 Hermelin and want to move to the T2 Dresden but it is showing I need to spend 350, even though I have a free port slot, which makes me think that there is a formula (ship xp / x before it unlocks for just credits)

 

EDIT: Never mind... Just answered my own question, I was looking at the star and assuming it was a free XP requirement.... I wish they used a different symbol between ship XP and Free XP

Edited by Algraxa

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3 minutes ago, Algraxa said:

TY, been searching for the answer but it looks like you need to sell a ship to get a port slot or 300DB will be needed. Is there any info somewhere on the conversion from ship XP to research XP? i.e. how much sip XP you need to grind before just paying base credits not DB... been hunting the interwebs but my google foo is not finding the answer.

 

Example I have a crappo commander with 3859 ship XP on the T1 Hermelin and want to move to the T2 Dresden but it is showing I need to spend 350, even though I have a free port slot, which makes me think that there is a formula (ship xp / x before it unlocks for just credits)

 

 

Look on the module screen for the Hermelin. Below the hull, it should show the Dresden for 350xp. You should just be able to click on that to research the Dresden. Once you've done that, it should also ask you if you want to purchase the ship for 67300 credits. Assuming you have the credits (silver coins) and an empty port slot, the ship should appear in your port.

If that doesn't work, see if you can post a screenshot. Describing with just words isn't my forte lol.

A ship will never unlock for just credits though. You need to spend ship XP to unlock the next ship, and then spend the credits to buy it.

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