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Love_Cannon

The star saving system needs to be removed from ranked.

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This is my first season trying to get some place in ranked, and the star saving system seems toxic.  It encourages people to get in a Hindenburg and farm damage, while not really helping to win the game.  Its rewarding players for bad play.  The really high level players managed to avoid this trap, but once the lower skill players made it to the tier ranked degenerated into a lottery to see of who gets the worst star saving players.

Watching these players sit miles from a cap circle firing at unimportant targets in high tier ranked is just stupid, and it really defeats the purpose of the ranking system in general.

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Definitely.

But on the losing team, whiners gonna whine.  

If you lost, you lost.   Doesn’t matter how much damage you did.

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The whole piece of crap system needs to be scraped and rebuilt into something that isn't a steaming pile of frustrating horse crap.

Edited by Thamelas
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8 minutes ago, Love_Cannon said:

This is my first season trying to get some place in ranked, and the star saving system seems toxic.  It encourages people to get in a Hindenburg and farm damage, while not really helping to win the game.  Its rewarding players for bad play.  The really high level players managed to avoid this trap, but once the lower skill players made it to the tier ranked degenerated into a lottery to see of who gets the worst star saving players.

Watching these players sit miles from a cap circle firing at unimportant targets in high tier ranked is just stupid, and it really defeats the purpose of the ranking system in general.

I agree, but it sure is nice when I save my star, sitting in a cap, throwing shells in every direction with my Biz, while DD's sit off defending open water that no one wants. 

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Although this is prolly bait...

WG could either remove the star saving system, or they could create more parameters other than just flat out damage.

Personally, I'd rather them change the parameters.

 

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There are so many ways they could improve the mechanisms in ranked.  This isn't one of them.

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As ranked is a "solo" effort we probably just need to get rid of teams and just have it be one big solo match.  You get points for doing things specific to your ship class.  The top half progress.

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5 minutes ago, rabidrabit said:

There are so many ways they could improve the mechanisms in ranked.  This isn't one of them.

Sometimes i wonder if they're doing this stuff on purpose, just to show up with a fix and look like hero's. Maybe they want to cause so much of a commotion so they can implement a change they know the majority otherwise wouldnt be down for.

 

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6 minutes ago, Capt_h2o said:

I agree, but it sure is nice when I save my star, sitting in a cap, throwing shells in every direction with my Biz, while DD's sit off defending open water that no one wants. 

It is nice to save the star, and I have reaped the benefits quite a few times.  How ever there isnt any other way I can see to remove the toxic emergent game play that occurs because of it.

 

5 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

Although this is prolly bait...

WG could either remove the star saving system, or they could create more parameters other than just flat out damage.

Personally, I'd rather them change the parameters.

 

The problem is that WG doesn't have good parameters set up.  Its not really their fault since XP cant really capture a good play since they have to stick with easily measurable stats. So the XP system they have in place just cant capture the small actions you need to take to win a game.  Admittedly improving parameters would help, but it probably wouldn't solve the problem.  Odds are it would just change the optimum ship for saving stars.

They could easily offset this more punishing mechanic by adding in a few more irrevocable ranks.  This is a system that they all ready have in place.  So making the change would be a lot easier, and the end result would be just as good.

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14 minutes ago, rabidrabit said:

There are so many ways they could improve the mechanisms in ranked.  This isn't one of them.

Actually I can find some really simple ways to game the system all of the proposals I've seen.  I'm not suggesting this because I think its a good fix, its just the only fix that has a real chance of working based on how WG can only base its XP on hard stats.  Like I said in my last post, you can offset this with more irrevocable ranks.

Edited by Love_Cannon

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Why not implement a ladder system into the existing random matches. Opt in to participate and player performance in random games is calculated and integrated into a ranked season leader-board. No ranked matches, stars could still be awarded, but no reason to "save" stars, obviously. A lot of things to consider and maybe not worktable, but i really see no reason for the "random clan battles" that we have with ranked now.

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How about we just remove Rank from WoWs? 

:cap_cool:

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5 minutes ago, Love_Cannon said:

Actually I can find some really simple ways to game the system all of the proposals I've seen.  I'm not suggesting this because I think its a good fix, its just the only fix that has a real chance of working based on how WG can only base its XP on hard stats.  Like I said in my last post, you can offset this with more irrevocable ranks.

Once you get in the lower ranks the "save my star" guys are long gone.  You are in it to win it.  The fact they are trolling this season by making it almost entirely damage based shows they could not care less about the random people on your side working together.  I'll bet you anything that the people making the rules for ranked battles have played none of them nor have inclination to improve game play.  It's either that or they are just utterly incompetent.  Probably a mix of both.

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I agree that the best loser system is flawed. It seems like some one didn't want to give up a bad idea or didn't want to put intelligent thought into Ranked battles at WG. I don't agree that the bad players are getting all of the first loser spots however.

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3 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

How about we just remove Rank from WoWs? 

:cap_cool:

I wouldn't care, now that I know I can get the ships another way. Yo Yo battles get old too fast for me to finish a season.

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3 minutes ago, rabidrabit said:

Once you get in the lower ranks the "save my star" guys are long gone.  You are in it to win it.  The fact they are trolling this season by making it almost entirely damage based shows they could not care less about the random people on your side working together.  I'll bet you anything that the people making the rules for ranked battles have played none of them nor have inclination to improve game play.  It's either that or they are just utterly incompetent.  Probably a mix of both.

Actually I found just the opposite over the past few days.  I lost a lot of games at rank 3 & 4 with at least 2 cruisers sitting there farming XP.  It wasn't a problem until this weekend, and think that's because the better star farmers finally played enough games to make it into the higher ranks.  It was bad enough that they weren't even firing at DDs that were radared, sitting still, in the open, in a cap. The other problems were the cruisers that wouldn't focus fire on a low HP BB because they wanted to start fires on a BB with higher health.  Trust me those problem players are there now.

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Hell, much of my advancement comes from saving stars but I'm in close with my Des Moines.  Saving a star gives you some hope when you are those 20% win streaks.  Check out this thread for some much better ideas.

 

 

Edited by rabidrabit

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Star saving was implemented so that a disadvantaged team wouldn't just bail out of the match at the first sign of collapse and instead would try to fight it out as best they could. This would have been fine if the game actually rewarded playing for the objective better than it does farming damage.

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15 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I wouldn't care, now that I know I can get the ships another way. Yo Yo battles get old too fast for me to finish a season.

IF WG really brings out a way to earn the Ships and Special Modules that you get from completing Rank that doesn't involve playing Rank than I'm willing to bet Rank will go the way of Team Battles. Which in my opinion isn't a bad thing. Much has been written about ways to "Fix" Rank. I have even put forth several posts and replies on the subject. But nothing really changes. If your standing in Rank didn't depend on 6 random people working with you to win it would be a lot better. 

At this point I'm just trying to Rank out this season so I can have a Black and once I've done that Rank can go Detonate. 

 

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1 minute ago, RedSeaBear said:

At this point I'm just trying to Rank out this season so I can have a Black and once I've done that Rank can go Detonate.

Good luck RSB I wish that I had stuck it out each season to get the ships, I just couldn't get past how much luck is involved. When you make it to rank 4 and fall back to rank 9 for no apparent reason it kind of ruins it for you, well at least it did for me. I have played 4 ranked battles this season and was considering grinding some more battles out. I just can't seem to get in the mood for it. Get your Black Mr. Bear.

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2 minutes ago, rabidrabit said:

Hell, much of my advancement comes from saving stars but I'm in close with my Desmoines.  Saving a star gives you some hope when you are those 20% win streaks.  Check out this thread for some much better ideas.

 

 

I watched it and saw more than a few ways to game that system too.  For example if you give people XP for just sitting near a cap for example it rewards people for sitting behind an island near a cap when they cant actually fire into the cap.

The only stat I cant see being exploited is spotting damage.  However that could be exploited by DDs farming spotting damage on BBs .  There have been more than a few games were I racked up a lot of spotting damage on ships that really weren't having an impact.

To be fair I'm a DD main in competitive stuff, and the star saving system is pushing me to quit ranked all together.  Implementing Notsers changes would help me personally, but I don't think it would solve the problem in general.  (It would be nice to save my star when I have 60-70k spotting damage, 40-50k damage of my own and most of my teams cap points.)

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I play ranked. I'm at the lower tiers now (5-1). The save your star function is required.

From 6.1 to rank 5 took 21 games. For three wins! Most of those were a save your star loss. (Only 90 games played in total so far so 1/5 for 3 stars...)

As a player why should i not try for top xp when your team mate didn't put on a detonate flag or your dds die in 3 minutes sitting in one puff of smoke and eating torps.

Edited by _greifer

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15 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

IF WG really brings out a way to earn the Ships and Special Modules that you get from completing Rank that doesn't involve playing Rank than I'm willing to bet Rank will go the way of Team Battles. Which in my opinion isn't a bad thing. Much has been written about ways to "Fix" Rank. I have even put forth several posts and replies on the subject. But nothing really changes. If your standing in Rank didn't depend on 6 random people working with you to win it would be a lot better. 

At this point I'm just trying to Rank out this season so I can have a Black and once I've done that Rank can go Detonate. 

 

I actually like the 7v7 game mode because I feel like I can contribute more to a win than in the big 12v12 matches.  I just wish they had a version of randoms that was set up the same way lol.

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