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Lensar

T10 Ranked: Shima vs Yueyang is about as broken as it can get

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Just now, Lensar said:

Hate to admit it, but I've been grinding up the Pan-asian line. I'm finding the Hsienyang to be pretty amazing, especially in close quarters DD vs DD and cap/spotting play. 

Only been doing random, obviously, but it's impressive how the ship can juggle multiple enemy DDs and deny them from capping, even at 1v2 or 1v3.

Wait till you get Chung mu with inertial fuses. Having followed several of your posts the last few months I think your head will explode. It’s everything you like about dd and a few things you are gonna hate to love (radar on a dd... que the evil sounding laugh).

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19 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

Wait till you get Chung mu with inertial fuses. Having followed several of your posts the last few months I think your head will explode. It’s everything you like about dd and a few things you are gonna hate to love (radar on a dd... que the evil sounding laugh).

Wait, wait, wait, wait.. Inertial Fuses? You mean IFHE? Do people put that on the Chung Mu? It has Fletcher guns right? I don't think those need IFHE, and 4 points is REALLY hard to squeeze into a good DD build. I would say 10 points are 100% mandatory skills (PT/PM, Last Stand, SE, CE), and a DD at that tier without RPF is asking for trouble, which makes 14 skill points... Seems like not enough space for IFHE, if that's what you mean. I guess you could sub out RPF, as you won't need it for smoke/preventative DD torp traps along the indicator, but if you ARE playing with radar it's mandatory right?

 

In other news I've been having the exact opposite problem in my Gadja Mada. Go to cap, spot stuff, smoke up/they smoke up, then sit around not doing much because I can't torp their smoke, and no non-DDs are close enough to torp. Then I play the roulette wheel of smoke torpedo dodging. I miss those normal torps sooo much. Otherwise I have to depend on the team to handle a DD in smoke and spotting instead of just rushing the fool with torps loaded if he really needs to be removed. I don't know man... The ship is fine, and eventually I feel like I'll have to go down the line, but I just feel hobbled without that 1km death trap and anti smoke tool.

 

Edited by Sou1forge

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On 5/14/2018 at 4:50 PM, Lensar said:

 

The whole reason I play WoWS is because it's a team-based game and it's fun trying to do whatever it takes to win.

I have no interest mindlessly farming XP while watching my teammates struggle to try and win. 

Such a sad state of affairs, especially since WG seems clueless about what it's done to the high tier game. It's like they balance the game based on potatoes, with zero regard for how it affects higher-end play. 

What is it all aboot?

 

https://memes.yarn.co/yarn-clip/2d92cf16-858a-44cb-ba5c-e98da22b5219

 

Edited by Curly__san
clarity

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5 hours ago, Sou1forge said:

Wait, wait, wait, wait.. Inertial Fuses? You mean IFHE? Do people put that on the Chung Mu? It has Fletcher guns right? I don't think those need IFHE, and 4 points is REALLY hard to squeeze into a good DD build. I would say 10 points are 100% mandatory skills (PT/PM, Last Stand, SE, CE), and a DD at that tier without RPF is asking for trouble, which makes 14 skill points... Seems like not enough space for IFHE, if that's what you mean. I guess you could sub out RPF, as you won't need it for smoke/preventative DD torp traps along the indicator, but if you ARE playing with radar it's mandatory right?

 

In other news I've been having the exact opposite problem in my Gadja Mada. Go to cap, spot stuff, smoke up/they smoke up, then sit around not doing much because I can't torp their smoke, and no non-DDs are close enough to torp. Then I play the roulette wheel of smoke torpedo dodging. I miss those normal torps sooo much. Otherwise I have to depend on the team to handle a DD in smoke and spotting instead of just rushing the fool with torps loaded if he really needs to be removed. I don't know man... The ship is fine, and eventually I feel like I'll have to go down the line, but I just feel hobbled without that 1km death trap and anti smoke tool.

 

I found the Chung mu to be a really soft hitter until I swapped stuff around for intertial fuse. AP would over pen. HE wasn’t quite what I needed it to be. Maybe that has changed. It was a fun little beast and the torps could, didn’t always, wreck faces.

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I definitely feel Lensar’s pain. Been playing my Shima with mixed results this season.  Currently I have a ~51% WR. Made rank 5, only to fall back to 8 and now back at 6. I really felt confident early and had a 55% WR over the first 40 games, only to struggle since.  

I have no issues with radar. I’ve had many games where I’ve taken over 1M potential damage and survived. I can predict radar and will bait it. It’s annoying but manageable.

My problem is that, like Lensar, I’ve been fairly unable to handle any kind of 1:1 confrontation, especially early in the game. Against any DD it’s a losing proposition; against another Shima it’s just an even trade. My goal is just stay alive so I can take down weakened DDs late in the game... assuming my team can maintain at least one cap. But early on in the game, I’m completely dependent on teamwork and their ability to focus fire.... and too often that just hasn’t worked out. 

Going to try one more push to break bank into rank 5 and then pack it in for lack of time....I’ve some very fun games this season and have enjoyed it. 

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On May 16, 2018 at 8:05 PM, thebigblue said:

I found the Chung mu to be a really soft hitter until I swapped stuff around for intertial fuse. AP would over pen. HE wasn’t quite what I needed it to be. Maybe that has changed. It was a fun little beast and the torps could, didn’t always, wreck faces.

What armor thickness does IFHE penetrate with Fletcher guns that it doesn't penetrate before that? IFHE isn't a RNG based skill. It's effect can be calculated and compared to average armor thickness of ships it encounters. Did you do that? I was under the impression the math was unimpressive for guns of that caliber, that you use IFHE generally on ships with guns around 155mm, and special ships like the Akizuki that have so little penetration that they need it.

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1 hour ago, Sou1forge said:

What armor thickness does IFHE penetrate with Fletcher guns that it doesn't penetrate before that? IFHE isn't a RNG based skill. It's effect can be calculated and compared to average armor thickness of ships it encounters. Did you do that? I was under the impression the math was unimpressive for guns of that caliber, that you use IFHE generally on ships with guns around 155mm, and special ships like the Akizuki that have so little penetration that they need it.

Nope. Didn’t do math. Wasn’t happy with ship in gunfights. Made some changes and added IFHE. Fire went down but module and raw damage went way up. Loved it after that. Not sure what changes have been made since they first came out but that’s how it was for me back then.

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15 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

Nope. Didn’t do math. Wasn’t happy with ship in gunfights. Made some changes and added IFHE. Fire went down but module and raw damage went way up. Loved it after that. Not sure what changes have been made since they first came out but that’s how it was for me back then.

Unless something is bugged it doesnt do much.  Gearing's armored sides are about the only values off the top of my head that IFHE gets you through. 

The only DDs I would run IFHE on are Akizuki, Harekaze, and the two upcoming 100mm T9 and 10 IJN gunboats.  Even then, I wouldnt run it until the fire chance was reworked.  I would much rather run other things like RPF, SI, BFT, than IFHE.  I just dont feel you get as much out of it as other skills in most DDs.

YMMV.

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31 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

Nope. Didn’t do math. Wasn’t happy with ship in gunfights. Made some changes and added IFHE. Fire went down but module and raw damage went way up. Loved it after that. Not sure what changes have been made since they first came out but that’s how it was for me back then.

Looks like the Asian forums have your answer:

https://forum.worldofwarships.asia/topic/22220-does-de-ifhe-combo-work-on-us-dd/

Read it, but the takeaway is unless you are constantly spamming at cruisers (who don't have radar, can't German hydro you, and stay moving in a predictable pattern within 12ish km while spotted so that your HE rounds can actually hit them, and hit them in their bow or stern instead of their deck plating which I believe is stronger) then it's a waste of 4 points. Or specifically the Gearing. For everything else it's a sugar pill.

Edited by Sou1forge

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1 hour ago, Sou1forge said:

Looks like the Asian forums have your answer:

https://forum.worldofwarships.asia/topic/22220-does-de-ifhe-combo-work-on-us-dd/

Read it, but the takeaway is unless you are constantly spamming at cruisers (who don't have radar, can't German hydro you, and stay moving in a predictable pattern within 12ish km while spotted so that your HE rounds can actually hit them, and hit them in their bow or stern instead of their deck plating which I believe is stronger) then it's a waste of 4 points. Or specifically the Gearing. For everything else it's a sugar pill.

That’s probably what it was. With deep water torps I didn’t engage in many dd cap duels and instead really worked on killing cruisers and B.B. All I remember is once I swapped some stuff and added ifhe I had much better numbers. It worked really well for me at the time. I’m sure there are other builds that also work well. 

Edited by thebigblue

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The Yueyang is a Hunter Killer DD. The Shima is a torpedo boat -- a torp spammer. You shouldn't put yourself in a position that you need to confront a Yueyang 1 vs 1 or at a firepower disadvantage. You are supposed to lose, so don't get into that fight.

Here's the problem with the Yueyang (I took it to Rank 1 so trust me I know). It can't hit much of anything with its guns past 7 km or so. At 8 km the shells take 5 secs to land and against a kiting or maneuvering target it is not going to land a lot of shells. In a 8~9 km fight it'll mostly miss 70% of his shots while a Shima will land 80% (I took it to Rank 1 too). Also, the Yueyang is not very fast and has no smoke cover. Catching a Yueyang coming towards you means that it can't run and it it'll be gunned down by you and your allies.

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