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Belthorian

Slight change to the new TK/AFK punishment system

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How about offering bonus points for finishing at the top of your COOP team that will shorten their sentence to COOP mode. This will provide those players incentive for playing well while they are stuck in COOP mode. I have heard from multiple people that the players who are being punished are suiciding to get the battle over as quick as possible. To prevent that from happening, impose a further penalty that if they are last on their team in COOP their penalty is extended two games. This will prevent them from trying to game the system and ruining the PVE players game experience.

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Doesn't it already depend on how well you play? I like the idea of a penalty for opting-out early by bot-derived suicide though.

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14 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Doesn't it already depend on how well you play? I like the idea of a penalty for opting-out early by bot-derived suicide though.

Not, as far as I know, you have imposed a sentence of x amount of battles and no matter how well or poorly you play it is the same amount of games.

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You do have to do a certain amount of damage.  Last year,  I had a catastrophic mismanagement of Benson torps when I was getting used to the ship. 

The conflict needing torps was long past when I got the Team Damage warning notification and the friendly BB was nice enough to allow himself to flood out - during which time I finally located the friendly ship I had hit.  The joy of long range slow torps.  There were a couple of battles after that that did not count because my damage/contribution wasn't high enough.  Also, if you don't wait out the battle, it sometimes confuses the counter and battles don't get counted.  At least that was the way it was a while ago.

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Play alot of co-op and I have yet to see any orange players....

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Just now, Jim_Byrnes said:

Play alot of co-op and I have yet to see any orange players....

They show as pink to you from what I've heard. So you won't be able to tell.

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Just now, Poharan said:

They show as pink to you from what I've heard. So you won't be able to tell.

Hmm... Have to check into that thx!

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1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

I have heard from multiple people that the players who are being punished are suiciding to get the battle over as quick as possible.

As long as they do some damage in the match WoW considers it all right; you cannot really police ability.

1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

To prevent that from happening, impose a further penalty that if they are last on their team in COOP their penalty is extended two games.

This is completely out of line; like I said above, you cannot police ability.

13 minutes ago, Jim_Byrnes said:

Play alot of co-op and I have yet to see any orange players....

Only they can see the Orange; you can't.

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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

As long as they do some damage in the match WoW considers it all right; you cannot really police ability.

This is completely out of line; like I said above, you cannot police ability.

Only they can see the Orange; you can't.

lol all I keep thinking about when people say they are orange is the TV show Orange is the new Black. A show about criminals no less lol. 

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7 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

lol all I keep thinking about when people say they are orange is the TV show Orange is the new Black. A show about criminals no less lol. 

My girlfriend loves that show; streams it constantly, over and over.

2 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

Now that you mention it, prison jumpsuits are usually orange in the TV shows and movies.

According to the photos of recently escaped prisoners, in real life too!

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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

My girlfriend loves that show; streams it constantly, over and over.

According to the photos of recently escaped prisoners, in real life too!

I was referring to the documentaries...

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2 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

I was referring to the documentaries...

Either way, you are correct Sir!

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1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

Not, as far as I know, you have imposed a sentence of x amount of battles and no matter how well or poorly you play it is the same amount of games.

Actually performing well will reduce your sentence faster, a good game will drop 2 games off your remaining penalty.

At least, I should say it did the last time I had a multi game penalty....I assume it hasn't changed.

Edited by awiggin

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Well, the new penalty system is a load of horse poo. When it comes to team damage and penalties, both the ship captain's, the (Artillery & Torpedoes) sender as well as the ship captain who receives the damage to their ship should receive the same exact penalty. Why? It is pretty much a fact that 95% of all damage cause to a team member with torpedoes, the ship could have easily avoided the torpedo rather than hit them. When I mentioned this to the ship captain who ran into the torpedoes, he said he didn't care that he hit them, it was not a problem for him. Why did he say this? They do this to block you so they can get the kill and possible a flesh wound. Not only this, I was in a battle using Artillery and a ship on my team passed right between us causing my shells to hit him once or twice, the system penalized me and turned me pink, he was hardly damaged and was far from being sunk. The penalty system is very unfair, its flawed, and more to the point, it sucks.

 

It's to the point that I will not even assist some ships, I want them to be destroyed so I can play without having to worry about them running into my torpedoes. It's truly an unfair system. I have had one solo torpedo float for 15 seconds, honked, shot around it, warned the person in chat and they still ran into the torpedo, its bull$hit. These ships simply do not care if you are going to be penalized and I think they actually want you too.

 

As far as Co-Op being something to train in, what a joke. have you been in there. The enemy is a bunch of mindless ships that are no smarter than a bag of hammers. Once the battle starts all of the players start shooting at the enemy, which, uses no skill at all to defend themselves. Co-Op simply has no effect on training the unskilled player, or not much anyway.

 

The players who mostly need training are the ones who run into the torpedoes, but you're not sending them and they could use this training. Most of the pink ships are highly skilled captains who do not need any training.

 

The entire system is screwed up.

 

If you want to penalize the pink or team killer, put each one solo on a full team of NPC ships against a full team of Co-Op players. This will penalize the pink ship as well as give the Co-Op players something more than mindless robots to shoot at.

Edited by Cerberus_Hellhound_
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3 hours ago, Belthorian said:

How about offering bonus points for finishing at the top of your COOP team that will shorten their sentence to COOP mode. This will provide those players incentive for playing well while they are stuck in COOP mode. I have heard from multiple people that the players who are being punished are suiciding to get the battle over as quick as possible.

It's much more fun to sink half the 'bot team. :cap_like:

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  I think doing it that way will exacerbate the problems of sending them there in the first place.   Leading to unintended problems like Yolo-ing to your doom in an attempt to shorten the duration of your punishment, or "farming"-  Chasing after damage and kills instead of playing to win. 

  Such a system encourages the type of selfish play that comes at the expense of your team.    Witness all the salty Ranked arguments about WG's policy of the top points earner on the losing side not losing a star.  Players play to not lose a star instead of playing to WIN- and earn another one.   In Co-op,  due to the nature of that mode, this tends to lead to either your early demise, ( being overly aggressive attracts the attention of the entire bot team- who is naturally both highly accurate, and very good at focusing fire.  It also causes them to ALL run to one part of the map, often messing everyone else up.)    or simply screwing your teammates.  

  You can see this play out whenever we have a kill, damage, or torpedo hit etc mission that's doable in Co-op.  

  I think a better way would be to reward these players for good team play and for playing the objectives.  Things like spotting damage; cap defenses; cap assists, plane kills. potential damage, etc.  If nothing else, it at least reminds them how to be a good teammate, lol.

  If you turn orange from serial disconnections/ late load-ins, that's an entirely different issue.   All an AFK player does in Co-op is give the rest of the team an opportunity to earn MORE, lol.

  Those who are orange for behavioral problems...  Those ones NEED a lesson in being more of a team player.   Encouraging them to play selfishly to get out of their punishment earlier is both counter productive- and needlessly punishes their teammates.

 

  I did notice something interesting this weekend.  I took my Leningrad out for a match, and since it was the first of the day- I loaded up on economic flags, and a type 59 camo to take maximum advantage of the +200% weekend.   Then I got stuck in load-in...   Took half the match to get into the game, and when I finally did- it was just in time to see my DD blow up!!  I never even got hot hit W...   I was TORQUED- not only did I waste an expensive camo, my first win bonus, and a couple of special flags- but I was likely to get punished by the automated system for it.   I did make a somewhat salty comment in chat about it...:Smile_sad:

  When the game ended, a text box appeared in port above all the usual stuff at end of match  saying something about the punishment being lifted.

  Now, I don't know if this happens every time until you do it enough to get pinked, or if the system is programmed to make exceptions for situations like that that are not of your making.   Heck, maybe a WG person happened to be IN that match or watching it- and overrode the automated system.  (for all you conspiracy theorists out there!)   I'd never seen anything like it before.

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2 hours ago, Cerberus_Hellhound_ said:

The players who mostly need training are the ones who run into the torpedoes, but you're not sending them and they could use this training. Most of the pink ships are highly skilled captains who do not need any training.

If you believe that I got some bridges to sell you, dirt cheap honest injun!!

Additionally since you hide your stats I can't tell if you actually fall into this category. 

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5 hours ago, Belthorian said:

How about offering bonus points for finishing at the top of your COOP team that will shorten their sentence to COOP mode. This will provide those players incentive for playing well while they are stuck in COOP mode. I have heard from multiple people that the players who are being punished are suiciding to get the battle over as quick as possible. To prevent that from happening, impose a further penalty that if they are last on their team in COOP their penalty is extended two games. This will prevent them from trying to game the system and ruining the PVE players game experience.

I would go one further, and  have their ships completely locked other than a t 1 ship to use, and must earn 50k base XP before being allowed their ships back to use again.

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2 hours ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

If you believe that I got some bridges to sell you, dirt cheap honest injun!!

Additionally since you hide your stats I can't tell if you actually fall into this category. 

So, what do ya want to know. Here is a little info. I hide my stats because I don't like hearing from the know it all's who contact me just to say there not impressed after checking my stats, who are apparently threatened by my skill. I'm simply here to play, not impress them. They have been playing for much longer and should be better than me. I have only been playing a few months and am still learning what a seal basher is, but if they're calling me that then I'm guessing they must be the seal. In the short time I have been playing I have had over 4000 random battles, over a 2.0 destruction rate. I have 3 solo warriors and over 50 release the krakens if you must know, and no, I'm not over stating my profile, I'm understating it. Why in the heck does my stats matter???

 

If you must see my stats because of some trust issue, I can show them too you if you wish but frankly, I don't see the point. It really doesn't matter what group I fall into or whether you feel I may or may not fall into whatever group your referring too. Why the heck does that matter, a problem is a problem regardless who has it or doesn't have it.

 

My point is that if both captains are penalized equally it will stop the ones who are not trying. If you can avoid hitting someone or running into torpedoes, you will.

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2 minutes ago, Cerberus_Hellhound_ said:

My point is that if both captains are penalized equally it will stop the ones who are not trying. If you can avoid hitting someone or running into torpedoes, you will.

As was stated earlier your ordinance is your responsibility until it has run its course.  That's always been the rule in this game. If they are getting close enough for a teammate to run into them further down you are taking too many risks.

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Who cares if a pink player suicides in a coop, it's not like it's a big challenge. 

Now people are worried about a bot getting a kill, lol

Infact, a instant ram on a bot might be a great way to get a kill and XP fast with zero effort. Might change how I coop

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3 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

As was stated earlier your ordinance is your responsibility until it has run its course.  That's always been the rule in this game. If they are getting close enough for a teammate to run into them further down you are taking too many risks.

I understand what you're saying, but if you play against the same guys and continue to always destroy them, they tend to take it personal and run into the torpedoes on purpose. I can understand shooting them too close and being penalized but if the torpedo has been in the water for a long period of time giving me time to honk, find out the team members name and type to them in chat, shoot at the torpedo and all around it even though it is revealing my location, not to mention all the alarms the moron who is going to run into them hears and they still run into the torpedoes. It would stand to reason that they do not care if you get penalized and are in fact trying to hit them. I have actually seen ships turn into the torpedoes direction as soon as they are sent.

 

I am not the only captain this happens too and it happens quite often. I understand that the ordinance is the senders responsibility but the team member who runs into them is not blameless in many cases, maybe when the torpedoes have only been in the water less than 5 seconds but 15 or more seconds is a very long time in the life of a torpedo when it's a team member that hits them while they receive warnings. I have thanked some members for not hitting them, obviously avoiding them, really, I feel the need to thank them, it really is that bad.

 

Personally, I don't hit that many team members with a torpedo but when I do, they could very easily avoided my torpedo. I look before I send.

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18 minutes ago, Capt_h2o said:

Who cares if a pink player suicides in a coop, it's not like it's a big challenge. 

Now people are worried about a bot getting a kill, lol

Infact, a instant ram on a bot might be a great way to get a kill and XP fast with zero effort. Might change how I coop

I think they are worried that the captain who suicides in coop is taking the kill away from the unskilled player (If you think about it, the suicide captain is probably saving the unskilled players life, there doing them a solid, taking one for the team). What they don't know is that a skilled destroyer captain can easily take out 2 bots with torpedoes while heading into a suicide run destroying 3 ships within the first minute of the battle. I find coop battles to be unbelievably easy. I have many awards for (we got two of them) in random battle, coop is nothing like random, the skill level doesn't even remotely compare to random. And, I might mention, ship ramming is a legitimate from of battle in this game. Maybe we are training on the best way to ram another ship, who are they to tell us we can't train on ship ramming.

Edited by Cerberus_Hellhound_
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1 hour ago, Cerberus_Hellhound_ said:

So, what do ya want to know. Here is a little info. I hide my stats because I don't like hearing from the know it all's who contact me just to say there not impressed after checking my stats, who are apparently threatened by my skill. I'm simply here to play, not impress them. They have been playing for much longer and should be better than me. I have only been playing a few months and am still learning what a seal basher is, but if they're calling me that then I'm guessing they must be the seal. In the short time I have been playing I have had over 4000 random battles, over a 2.0 destruction rate. I have 3 solo warriors and over 50 release the krakens if you must know, and no, I'm not over stating my profile, I'm understating it. Why in the heck does my stats matter???

 

If you must see my stats because of some trust issue, I can show them too you if you wish but frankly, I don't see the point. It really doesn't matter what group I fall into or whether you feel I may or may not fall into whatever group your referring too. Why the heck does that matter, a problem is a problem regardless who has it or doesn't have it.

 

My point is that if both captains are penalized equally it will stop the ones who are not trying. If you can avoid hitting someone or running into torpedoes, you will.

Only been playing a few months and youhave over 4k randoms....holy crap that is impressive. I have been playing since closed beta and I just crossed that mark recently lol. If you have over 50 krackens than you are doing better than me...congrats....but than again you are a cerberus hell hound....you are supposed to strike fear in the enemy lol.

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