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jags_domain

WG if you read these post please movie Italy ships down 1 teir

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WG if you read these post the Itialian ship will do better one tier down. 14 km range on duka is fine for t5 but at t6 when it meets t8 its just not useful. 

I would not even want money back just make it a teir that it would excel in.

Not the BB!!!

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1 minute ago, jags_domain said:

WG if you read these post the Itialian ship will do better one tier down. 14 km range on duka is fine for t5 but at t6 when it meets t8 its just not useful. 

I would not even want money back just make it a teir that it would excel in.

I don't think Guilio needs to be down tiered....:Smile_teethhappy:

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4 minutes ago, awiggin said:

I don't think Guilio needs to be down tiered....:Smile_teethhappy:

Thats true. That ship is soon to be on the never get to by because its to good only Russian ships can do that!

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The Abruzzi is carrying a 55.92% W/R while the d'Aosta has a somewhat lower but still respectable 51.54% W/R. The Italians are doing just fine.

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Considering that WG has extensively tested and adjusted these ships, and has a lot more data on these ships‘ performance, I think that they have made the ships suitable for their tiers.

D‘Aosta is fine at T6, as her speed and concealment in combination allow for a unique and effective playstyle. Lowering her by one tier would result in two things: loss of a module slot and loss of hull plating (T5 has 10-13mm hull plating). This would not really make her more fun to play, even if the rare case of a T8 game got eliminated.

Abruzzi was bad when she did not have the heal, but her buff with the Consumables gave her a niche and makes her a ship that is somewhat fun to play. T7 is also a sweet spot for MM, so why lower her now?

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lets see the Giulio (Julia Roberts)  at T 4 I dare you WG, I double dare you.

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15 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

lets see the Giulio (Julia Roberts)  at T 4 I dare you WG, I double dare you.

The Cesare at tier 4 would make the Nikolai look like it is under powered.

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44 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Considering that WG has extensively tested and adjusted these ships, and has a lot more data on these ships‘ performance, I think that they have made the ships suitable for their tiers.

D‘Aosta is fine at T6, as her speed and concealment in combination allow for a unique and effective playstyle. Lowering her by one tier would result in two things: loss of a module slot and loss of hull plating (T5 has 10-13mm hull plating). This would not really make her more fun to play, even if the rare case of a T8 game got eliminated.

Abruzzi was bad when she did not have the heal, but her buff with the Consumables gave her a niche and makes her a ship that is somewhat fun to play. T7 is also a sweet spot for MM, so why lower her now?

Her range is what makes me ask this. T6 almost every ship out guns you by 2km at least and the HE is not that strong.

Just think it might be more productive. Or give it a bit more ramge like 15 or 16

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37 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The Cesare at tier 4 would make the Nikolai look like it is under powered.

That's a real simple fix, BUFF the Nikolai

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1 minute ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

That's a real simple fix, BUFF the Nikolai

Right, The Nikolai wrecked face on tier 6's before the MM changes.

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

WG if you read these post the Itialian ship will do better one tier down. 14 km range on duka is fine for t5 but at t6 when it meets t8 its just not useful. 

I would not even want money back just make it a teir that it would excel in.

Not the BB!!!

Looking at your stats, it is not the tier that is the problem....hint hint hint.

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17 hours ago, SireneRacker said:

Considering that WG has extensively tested and adjusted these ships, and has a lot more data on these ships‘ performance, I think that they have made the ships suitable for their tiers.

D‘Aosta is fine at T6, as her speed and concealment in combination allow for a unique and effective playstyle. Lowering her by one tier would result in two things: loss of a module slot and loss of hull plating (T5 has 10-13mm hull plating). This would not really make her more fun to play, even if the rare case of a T8 game got eliminated.

Abruzzi was bad when she did not have the heal, but her buff with the Consumables gave her a niche and makes her a ship that is somewhat fun to play. T7 is also a sweet spot for MM, so why lower her now?

I think WG goes largely by the Russian server, where the POS Duca has a 53.65% win rate SOLO, which is unbelievable considering how awful that ship is. But she has a relatively small number of games, just a tiny fraction of the tech tree ships, so I expect only a few people who can make her work are playing her. 

On the Asia server she has a 51.47% win rate SOLO. WarshipsToday has no stats for the NA. 

On both servers she's ahead of De Grasse in win rate though not in damage, though De Grasse is a much better ship in every way. 

Stats like that are hard to comprehend. 

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2 hours ago, awiggin said:

I don't think Guilio needs to be down tiered....:Smile_teethhappy:

You are a bad, bad man ... shame on you! (and seriously, another new avatar? you up to a new one every week now?)

2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The Abruzzi is carrying a 55.92% W/R while the d'Aosta has a somewhat lower but still respectable 51.54% W/R. The Italians are doing just fine.

And there you go again, trashing someone's perfectly good emotional rant with your silly old facts! Have you no shame!

1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

T6 almost every ship out guns you by 2km at least and the HE is not that strong.

Cleveland does just fine at tier 6 with a sub 15 K main battery range. I THINK stock is 13.3 and upgraded is 14.7; but I'm quoting these from memory so I could be off a bit.

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13 minutes ago, Umikami said:

You are a bad, bad man ... shame on you! (and seriously, another new avatar? you up to a new one every week now?)

And there you go again, trashing someone's perfectly good emotional rant with your silly old facts! Have you no shame!

Cleveland does just fine at tier 6 with a sub 15 K main battery range. I THINK stock is 13.3 and upgraded is 14.7; but I'm quoting these from memory so I could be off a bit.

duca has 8 guns and clevland is going to t8 because she should be there. The Russian has 16.6 range the inn about the same German over 16. So yes she is lacking something.

I still enjoy the Duca but it will never be a goto ship

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1 minute ago, jags_domain said:

duca has 8 guns and clevland is going to t8 because she should be there

When Cleveland was first in the game she had many, many more abilities than she does now; that ship used to make tier 8 BBs cry. Then she was nerf-hammered to be balanced at tier 6; so your comment about how she "belongs" at tier 8 doesn't really ring true. She does belong at tier 8, but she also needs to have her original stats back, and you hope you'll never see those again; at least on the red team.

Cleveland is a great ship in many ways, but like I said, she only has a 13.3 K range stock. She also has "over the moon" gun arcs and has a great deal of difficulty hitting DDs and CLs at anything over 10 K. Duca d'Aosta starts with a 14.01 K range and gets all the improvements that Cleveland does, so your argument really doesn't hold a lot of water.

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

I think WG goes largely by the Russian server, where the POS Duca has a 53.65% win rate SOLO, which is unbelievable considering how awful that ship is. But she has a relatively small number of games, just a tiny fraction of the tech tree ships, so I expect only a few people who can make her work are playing her. 

On the Asia server she has a 51.47% win rate SOLO. WarshipsToday has no stats for the NA. 

On both servers she's ahead of De Grasse in win rate though not in damage, though De Grasse is a much better ship in every way. 

Stats like that are hard to comprehend. 

You might think the ship is awful but it really isn’t. It just has a different play style than most. I haven’t played many games in it, but I found out how to make it work. I have yet to be top tier in it after a few games. I would suggest trying to open up your mind and play it differently than you currently are to see if you do better. 7 games isn’t enough to figure it out if you try to play it like any other ships though 

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35 minutes ago, Umikami said:

When Cleveland was first in the game she had many, many more abilities than she does now; that ship used to make tier 8 BBs cry. Then she was nerf-hammered to be balanced at tier 6; so your comment about how she "belongs" at tier 8 doesn't really ring true. She does belong at tier 8, but she also needs to have her original stats back, and you hope you'll never see those again; at least on the red team.

Cleveland is a great ship in many ways, but like I said, she only has a 13.3 K range stock. She also has "over the moon" gun arcs and has a great deal of difficulty hitting DDs and CLs at anything over 10 K. Duca d'Aosta starts with a 14.01 K range and gets all the improvements that Cleveland does, so your argument really doesn't hold a lot of water.

I like the gun arcs. In fact I am javing a hard time with the russians because I cant do that. The French are a great example of slowish arcs but can still fire over hills.

Agreed with some of the stats. I did not play back in the day but the turret traves need to be buffed

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2 hours ago, Umikami said:

You are a bad, bad man ... shame on you! (and seriously, another new avatar? you up to a new one every week now?)

 

Some old show pops into my head, I go do a quick image search....something interesting pops up and i change it.

Really just depends on how much my mind wanders....:Smile_teethhappy:

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5 hours ago, jags_domain said:

Her range is what makes me ask this. T6 almost every ship out guns you by 2km at least and the HE is not that strong.

Just think it might be more productive. Or give it a bit more ramge like 15 or 16

These ships are not supposed to be played at such long ranges. You have that insanely strong Concealment, which alone should encourage you to actually get a bit closer. If you can no longer afford to fight that closely, you have a spotter plane.

5 hours ago, Taichunger said:

I think WG goes largely by the Russian server, where the POS Duca has a 53.65% win rate SOLO, which is unbelievable considering how awful that ship is. But she has a relatively small number of games, just a tiny fraction of the tech tree ships, so I expect only a few people who can make her work are playing her. 

On the Asia server she has a 51.47% win rate SOLO. WarshipsToday has no stats for the NA. 

On both servers she's ahead of De Grasse in win rate though not in damage, though De Grasse is a much better ship in every way. 

Stats like that are hard to comprehend. 

https://na.wows-numbers.com/ship/3764303600,Duca-d-Aosta/

Not sure if I can set the timeframe to a bit more recent, but all-time she hovers above 51% WR on the NA server.

The d‘Aosta is not a damage farmer like Budyonny or De Grasse are, and should thus not be directly compared to them. Budyonny and De Grasse play at 14+ km and lob shells at their opponents non-stop. D‘Aosta plays at 11km and seeks opportunities to deal damage, either into isolated broadside targets or by jumping that DD that overextended.

And that niche is somethat that the d‘Aosta fits into the best for any Cruiser at her Tier, neither the Budyonny (she lacks agility and concealment), the De Grasse (lacks concealment) or the Cleveland (lacks speed and concealment) can perform that role like d‘Aosta does.

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Aoba has 14.9km range upgraded

 

Leander has 13.2km range upgraded

 

Duca is not the only ship that suffer from poor range. 

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8 hours ago, awiggin said:

Some old show pops into my head, I go do a quick image search....something interesting pops up and i change it.

Really just depends on how much my mind wanders....:Smile_teethhappy:

Yikes, is that Citizen Kane? Suppose you’ll do something old school like Perry Mason next.

 

on topic: I have never been scared by an Italian cruiser in any ship I’ve been driving. I suppose it’s winrate is only because the people who play her do well in her, and the people who don’t do well stop, quickly. 

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5 hours ago, SireneRacker said:

These ships are not supposed to be played at such long ranges. You have that insanely strong Concealment, which alone should encourage you to actually get a bit closer. If you can no longer afford to fight that closely, you have a spotter plane.

https://na.wows-numbers.com/ship/3764303600,Duca-d-Aosta/

Not sure if I can set the timeframe to a bit more recent, but all-time she hovers above 51% WR on the NA server.

The d‘Aosta is not a damage farmer like Budyonny or De Grasse are, and should thus not be directly compared to them. Budyonny and De Grasse play at 14+ km and lob shells at their opponents non-stop. D‘Aosta plays at 11km and seeks opportunities to deal damage, either into isolated broadside targets or by jumping that DD that overextended.

And that niche is somethat that the d‘Aosta fits into the best for any Cruiser at her Tier, neither the Budyonny (she lacks agility and concealment), the De Grasse (lacks concealment) or the Cleveland (lacks speed and concealment) can perform that role like d‘Aosta does.

Leander is far more deadly against the DDs that pushed to far, plus she can support your teams dds as they contest the cap, and the Leander can cap unsupported if necessary. Duca can not do those things - I’m happy to give up a bit of tail waggle for those things. Oh, Leander obviously has smoke and heal too. 

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57 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Leander is far more deadly against the DDs that pushed to far, plus she can support your teams dds as they contest the cap, and the Leander can cap unsupported if necessary. Duca can not do those things - I’m happy to give up a bit of tail waggle for those things. Oh, Leander obviously has smoke and heal too. 

Leander is a lot more fragile though, given the RN armor values (thinner plating) and the absence of a long belt that can bounce shells.

Calling Leander far more deadly is an exaggeration though. Yes, Leander is stealthier, but she pays by having a significantly weaker firepower at worse firing angles, which reduces the amount of guns you can bear at a target. Lack of HE can cost you when your target angles, and makes knocked out modules less likely. Did I mention shell flight times? 

So no, I‘d consider d’Aosta equal in terms of jumping the overextending DD. However, d'Aosta is better at seeking and abusing opportunities, and her fall-back card is the spotter plane, which will allow her to take distance if needed (while Leaner‘s smoke allows her to smoke camp, she is unable to move away without basically giving up her concealment. As fast as a Leander can run anyway...)

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For some reason, Duca and I get along very well.  It's a Jack of all Trades ship.  It doesn't excel at any one thing, but can adapt to a lot of situations.

AA (can't shoot down a lot, but can cause dispersion with defensive fire)

Long range torps (slow, but can be stealth fired, and has excellent firing arcs). 

DD screening and BB escort (can keep DDs away from BBs and with hydro can help with torps)

DD hunting (very effective when engaging DDs)

CA fire support in general (support BBs, from stealth over terrain, or long range using speed, weave, and dodge)

Capping and capping denial, especially in mid to late games.  (Fast enough to get there, strong enough to kick out DDs)

Most of making Duca work is to figure out which of the above situations is best at each point in the battle, and to work the Duca's "trade" in that capacity.  As the battle progresses, you might have to transition to a different "trade".    Or sometimes, you can do both at the same time.  Screen for DDs while putting six torps down an approach channel.  Provide AA support while delivering CA fire support.  

I believe some folks are frustrated with Duca because they play it like other CAs that tend to have a more tailored mission.  A Duca cannot perform to the same level as a tailored CA in those missions.  Hence, the Duca seems like it just doesn't work (and, in actuality, it doesn't when so limited).   But play looking for where its many different capabilties can be best applied...that is the trick with Duca.  Being in the right place at the right time for what it can do at that point in the battle.  

 

 

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17 hours ago, awiggin said:

I don't think Guilio needs to be down tiered....:Smile_teethhappy:

That was the first thing that popped into my head lol.

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