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27 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

BTW, what's the winch at the aft for? mine sweeping?

The immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in a red zone. 

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5 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

German destroyers aren't very comfortable for novice players. 

  • They're large. 
  • They don't hit especially hard. 
  • They don't handle particularly well.

For a ship type that's defined by speed, agility and delivering monster alpha strikes with torpedoes, German destroyers are really odd ducks.  Toss on their Hydroacoustic Search and it just complicates matters for a novice.  However, put these same tools in the hands of a veteran and the ship becomes exceedingly dangerous.  Z-39 emphasizes this by a concealment tool not normally accessible to German destroyers at high tiers -- though it is only within a limited matchmaking spread.  She's a bully in the right hands and a middling offering in everyone else's.

Interesting follow-up thoughts.  I'm still on the fence about buying it... I really don't need another premium that may end up sitting in port.. 

Anyway, I'm curious as to your thoughts on the 150's.  It may be splitting hairs, but Z-39's dispersion is slightly worse than Z-23 by 7m (103m vs 96m) and even more than Ernst Gaede by 14m (103m vs 89m).  Do you suppose that this was done for balance purposes?  I am not a German naval gunnery expert, but the article on Navweaps seems to indicate they are all more or less the same (or at least very very similar).  

Does the 7m (Z-39 > Z-23) or 14m (Z-39 > Ernst Gaede) make that much of a difference?  I'm only curious because I play Ernst Gaede a lot, and only with the 150's, which despite being slower reload, are hard hitting.

thanks again for the review, I really love the graphic you included :cap_haloween:

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11 minutes ago, bassmasta76 said:

Interesting follow-up thoughts.  I'm still on the fence about buying it... I really don't need another premium that may end up sitting in port.. 

Anyway, I'm curious as to your thoughts on the 150's.  It may be splitting hairs, but Z-39's dispersion is slightly worse than Z-23 by 7m (103m vs 96m) and even more than Ernst Gaede by 14m (103m vs 89m).  Do you suppose that this was done for balance purposes?  I am not a German naval gunnery expert, but the article on Navweaps seems to indicate they are all more or less the same (or at least very very similar).  

Does the 7m (Z-39 > Z-23) or 14m (Z-39 > Ernst Gaede) make that much of a difference?  I'm only curious because I play Ernst Gaede a lot, and only with the 150's, which despite being slower reload, are hard hitting.

thanks again for the review, I really love the graphic you included :cap_haloween:

B

IMO, dispersion is of zero concern to Destroyer and Cruiser Guns, unless those Cruisers are using guns found on Battleships, then dispersion / sigma are suddenly a thing to worry about.  You never hear of Cruisers, Destroyers complaining about inaccuracy unless you're talking peculiar examples where a Cruiser is trying to use BB Guns (Graf Spee, Kronshtadt in her pre-buff state, etc).

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IMO, dispersion is of zero concern to Destroyer and Cruiser Guns, unless those Cruisers are using guns found on Battleships, then dispersion / sigma are suddenly a thing to worry about.  You never hear of Cruisers, Destroyers complaining about inaccuracy unless you're talking peculiar examples where a Cruiser is trying to use BB Guns (Graf Spee, Kronshtadt in her pre-buff state, etc).

The only reason to be concerned for dispersion is if you're shooting beyond 7 km range at a jinking DD. I ended up placing 2 points on EM just enable the guns to keep up with the maneuvers. The torpedoes are comfortable. She is deadly when top tier. Not so much when stuck in a T9 match. The Z-39 would suck if it was a T8 ship.

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2 hours ago, bassmasta76 said:

Interesting follow-up thoughts.  I'm still on the fence about buying it... I really don't need another premium that may end up sitting in port..

If you're on the fence, save your money.  That's my take and how I would spend my own money.  I personally feel that premiums, for their asking price, should be something you get excited about.  If it doesn't, hold back your wallet.

2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Anyway, I'm curious as to your thoughts on the 150's.  It may be splitting hairs, but Z-39's dispersion is slightly worse than Z-23 by 7m (103m vs 96m) and even more than Ernst Gaede by 14m (103m vs 89m). 

Dispersion is based on maximum range and it scales linearly within weapon types.  You can't just compare the flat values listed in post to determine which ship is more accurate.  If something has longer range, it will appear less accurate.

  • Z-39 - 11.8km range, 104m dispersion
  • Z-23 - 10.8km range, 96m dispersion
  • Z-23 (stock) - 9.9km range, 89m dispersion
  • Gaede - 10.9km range, 97m dispersion
  • Gaede (stock) - 9.9km range, 89m dispersion

See?  They all scale in a linear fashion.  More range = more dispersion.  However, if a Z-39 shoots at 9.9km, it will have the same dispersion as a Z-23 or Gaede.

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I love historical ships and went ahead and picked her up... she’s an interesting play for a DD,  mouse as always is right on topic (THANK YOU LWM... love your reviews it’s always a pleasure and highly informative)  as she has a goog hp pool and is forgiving in a novices hands. If you have been playing the German DD line you will be very comfortable with her, and the added stealth mods with at least a 10 pt captain will give you a very noticeable advantage in stealth attacks with your torps.

Just don’t get cocky or you’ll be deleted and back in port very quickly. She’s also priced cheaply for the base model, so if your curious about and or just want to play a tier 7 German DD then it’s not a bad hit to the wallet. 

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On 5/17/2018 at 8:22 PM, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Time.  Lots and and lots and lots of time.

Ok...so get Krakin!

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Just now, Redwing6 said:

Ok...so get Krakin!


It's time I don't have -- not if I want to ensure I get new, detailed reviews out on time.

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I hope the T-61 never sees the light of day...or if they want they could legitimately move it up to Tier VIII where it would still be OP.

 

This though I am happy to get.  I think once people actually play it, a lot of the drama over the 150mm guns will go away.  Gameplay aside, that is sort of the defining feature of German DD guns during the war.  What's also good is that you can use this to put a captain other than your high tier DD captains in.

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15 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Ah, then I expect it to have the same BBAP interaction when poorly angled...

To be fair thats effects all DDs not just KM ones in my experience.

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23 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:


It's time I don't have -- not if I want to ensure I get new, detailed reviews out on time.

Less sleep, more work! :-)

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19 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Then should it had said detonation?

I dont think it shows up there, maybe its a bug, I just have not seen it there.  I usually find it in the team score board under awards.

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IMO, dispersion is of zero concern to Destroyer and Cruiser Guns, unless those Cruisers are using guns found on Battleships, then dispersion / sigma are suddenly a thing to worry about.  You never hear of Cruisers, Destroyers complaining about inaccuracy unless you're talking peculiar examples where a Cruiser is trying to use BB Guns (Graf Spee, Kronshtadt in her pre-buff state, etc).

I would agree, but was curious.

1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

If you're on the fence, save your money.  That's my take and how I would spend my own money.  I personally feel that premiums, for their asking price, should be something you get excited about.  If it doesn't, hold back your wallet.

Dispersion is based on maximum range and it scales linearly within weapon types.  You can't just compare the flat values listed in post to determine which ship is more accurate.  If something has longer range, it will appear less accurate.

  • Z-39 - 11.8km range, 104m dispersion
  • Z-23 - 10.8km range, 96m dispersion
  • Z-23 (stock) - 9.9km range, 89m dispersion
  • Gaede - 10.9km range, 97m dispersion
  • Gaede (stock) - 9.9km range, 89m dispersion

See?  They all scale in a linear fashion.  More range = more dispersion.  However, if a Z-39 shoots at 9.9km, it will have the same dispersion as a Z-23 or Gaede.

Duly noted on both points, and thank you.   I suppose I was thinking about it in terms of landing more hits at range.  

Thank you for the perspective.:Smile_honoring:

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15 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

If you're on the fence, save your money.  That's my take and how I would spend my own money.  I personally feel that premiums, for their asking price, should be something you get excited about.  If it doesn't, hold back your wallet.

Agreed.  I prefer DDs and Cruisers but I see nothing remarkable or special about the Z-39 that I don’t already have in similar ships of the same tier.  So I’m never going to buy it.  And thank you for those choice, time-saving and entertaining reviews!

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For once you actually make a post worth your praise and admiration. good to see you grew up into the hype of your fanboi's. This is the quality of work you should have been putting out a year ago.

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23 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

If you're on the fence, save your money.  That's my take and how I would spend my own money.  I personally feel that premiums, for their asking price, should be something you get excited about.  If it doesn't, hold back your wallet.

 

well, I wasn't too impressed at the start until I ran a Blys. 6.1 vs 6.8 km visibility? That's about 3-5 seconds there. What's worse is that the Z-39 does not have to open up. She can just call her buddies to do the work.

Edit: That's what make the Z-39 so useful. You can dictate the engagement ranges. What is a dangerous dd? A dd the reds cannot see!

Edited by Bill_Halsey
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I bougth Z-39, its a tricky ship to use. Good concealment, hydro and large HP pool you might want to hunt other DDs, but few guns with low DPM and slow turret traverse means you dont want to knife fight. Overall its a good ship, packs some good utility for a DD and i like this on my ships. 

 

I dont think Z-39 needs a specialized cpt. EM isnt really needed. IFHE would be a nice skill, but IMO doenst justify having a specialized cpt for Z-39 just for this skill since Z-39 isnt really a gunboat. 

 

For those saying that they wil wait for T-61, just get Z-39 instead, as LWM said, Z39 is here and its a good ship. As far as we know, T-61 isnt coming anytine soon, if/when she comes back might have very different stats.

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With the SE skill, Z-39 has 22050 HP, the tier 5 german CL Konigsberg has 24300 hp with B hull. Other ships like Kirov, Omaha and Emile Bertin have just over 26k hp. Z-39 has nearly T5 cruiser HP pool, but without a citadel. 

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On 5/19/2018 at 1:37 PM, Bill_Halsey said:

The only reason to be concerned for dispersion is if you're shooting beyond 7 km range at a jinking DD. I ended up placing 2 points on EM just enable the guns to keep up with the maneuvers. The torpedoes are comfortable. She is deadly when top tier. Not so much when stuck in a T9 match. The Z-39 would suck if it was a T8 ship.

Dispersion is still of zero concern to a DD at all gun engagement ranges.  The single most important thing that determines how a DD's guns perform are how the shells behave in flight.

 

You have one on hand RU DDs with their Russian Mini-Railguns, low shell arcs, high velocity shells.

Then you have on the other end of the spectrum, USN DDs, VERY HIGH shell arcs, super low velocity shells.

 

Dispersion isn't the issue, it's how the shells behave that make a Destroyer's guns a pleasure to use or frustrating.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 8:39 AM, LittleWhiteMouse said:

German destroyers aren't very comfortable for novice players. 

  • They're large. 
  • They don't hit especially hard. 
  • They don't handle particularly well.

For a ship type that's defined by speed, agility and delivering monster alpha strikes with torpedoes, German destroyers are really odd ducks.  Toss on their Hydroacoustic Search and it just complicates matters for a novice.  However, put these same tools in the hands of a veteran and the ship becomes exceedingly dangerous.  Z-39 emphasizes this by a concealment tool not normally accessible to German destroyers at high tiers -- though it is only within a limited matchmaking spread.  She's a bully in the right hands and a middling offering in everyone else's.

True; I think I was trying to make a point that it's appealing to the new players. When you see several points where it's exceeds other DDs at the same tier you just can't stop thinking that it must be good.

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On 5/19/2018 at 7:53 PM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

To be fair thats effects all DDs not just KM ones in my experience.

Exactly. I get LOL 33% pens on all DDs. The Germans are nothing special. It’s just that in the past we didn’t have pen/overpen/shatter/bounce ribbons to tell us. 

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On 5/18/2018 at 9:44 PM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I havent found the guns anemic. 

I dont go out of my way to hunt DDs, but with the usual shoot, evade, shoot pattern I have with IJN DDs, I find I do all right.  The AP is fantastic against both BBs and CAs.  I havent had a chance to blap a RU DD yet, but I've done 5-6k volleys with Gaede and Z-23 in the past.  I expect it can put in the numbers if I do my part.

I do go out of my way to hunt DDs. for my, this is just a target.

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On 5/20/2018 at 2:20 PM, Xlap said:

I bougth Z-39, its a tricky ship to use. Good concealment, hydro and large HP pool you might want to hunt other DDs, but few guns with low DPM and slow turret traverse means you dont want to knife fight. Overall its a good ship, packs some good utility for a DD and i like this on my ships. 

 

I dont think Z-39 needs a specialized cpt. EM isnt really needed. IFHE would be a nice skill, but IMO doenst justify having a specialized cpt for Z-39 just for this skill since Z-39 isnt really a gunboat. 

 

For those saying that they wil wait for T-61, just get Z-39 instead, as LWM said, Z39 is here and its a good ship. As far as we know, T-61 isnt coming anytine soon, if/when she comes back might have very different stats.

I agree.  The guns, also, are really weird on this ship.  There are salvos that rival cruisers in this thing, as long as you are using AP.  

 

Honestly I am thinking that this might actually be a premium which is a true trainer.  It is an excellent ship for someone to practice their grind from the Z-23 to the Z-52.  

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I bought this the first day.  I’ve done fairly well in the Z-23 and this seems like a copy moved down to Tier 7. 

TL;DR unless you like and have experience with German DDs take a pass on this one.  If you just got the Ernst Gaede and are determined to work up to the Z-52, buy it.  Great captain trainer for Tiers 6 and 8 and not bad for others.

After playing the Z-39 a bit, I decided to play each of my Tier 7 DDs for comparison. (Please not that I did not keep the Mahan or the Akatsuki.). I’d forgotten how much fun the Blyskawica is!  Her 7 rifles are set up very well for kiting. And they have a nice rate of fire.  The 6.5 second reload is very comfortable, compared to 7.5 seconds and only 5 rifles on the Z-39. Leningrad has only 5 rifles but a nice 5 second reload. Gadjah Mada has 6 rifles with a 5 second reload and wonderful forward firing angles.

Sims only has 4 rifles but her reload rate is 3.3 seconds.  The trade off is that they are very floaty shells like all USN DDs an have much lower fire chance  (5% vs. 8% for most T7 DDs) 

The Z-39 turret traverse is painfully slow.  If you’ve played Leningrad, Blyskawica, and Gadjah Mada this is nothing new.  Expert Marksman makes a small improvement but they’re still slow.  However, the Z-39s sluggish handling makes it even worse.  Sims is in a class by itself with turrets that seems to spin faster than a Minotaur’s  

However, 150 > 120 or 130.  The fire chance alone on the Z-39 is 50% greater than its competition at 12% per shell vs. 8%. Sims fire chance is only 5% per she’ll. This ship lights fires!  Then there is the AP. Don’t get too caught up in AP destroyers like some players do. I had a Sims shooting AP at my bow-on BB over the weekend... lol.  But the Z-39 can do a lot of damage fast to a broadside Atlanta, Shchors, etc. within 8 km. If that BB you’re pummeling from smoke is already burning in 2 or 3 places and it’s within 10 km, try the AP out on the superstructure. German BBs have plenty of juicy superstructure.  I’ve always liked the 150 mm option on German DDs but YMMV. 

The biggest Health Pool in Tier 7 is a luxury until some Lyon shoots that stupid 16 gun volley at you. The Z-39 eats AP damage like candy. Still in DD vs. DD engagements. He who has the bigger health pool often wins. Especially if your alpha strike gives them a solid whack in the head.

The Z-39s torpedoes are nice. Two sets of 4 with a range of 8.5 km, 65 knot speed and 90 second reload compares well with the competition. Potential damage is slightly lower but the flooding chance seems pretty good ( no stats on that though). 500 meters longer range doesn’t sound like much, but remember that Z-39 also enjoys a 500 meter or more Concealment advantage.  That means your stealth firing window is about 1 kilometer bigger. You need it because the Z-39 turns like a slug. Did I mention that? Also, Atlanta and Belfast radar has a range of 8.47 km. 8.5 km torpedoes suddenly seem nice, especially if that radar craphound is coming toward you. 

Big fun Tier 7 DDs?  The old Kiev wins hands down, but that’s irrelevant isn’t it. Blyskawica is a blast even without stealth firing :(.  Racing around in Leningrad while no one can get the lead right is hysterical. (I once had 1.7 mm potential damage in the Leningrad - I lit a LOT of fires on BBs.) Gadjah Mada is a fun gun boat with torpedoes that cruisers and BBs just don’t see until it’s too late. Plus she launches 2 sets of 5 each, in contrast to 4 each for most of the competition. 

By now you’re asking “why the hell did he buy this boat?”  Hydro. Z-39 has the same 4.44 km ship detection as the Tier 8 Z-23. The catch is that your detection while firing in smoke is 3.3 km. So there’s only a 1.14 km window between you spotting a red DD with hydro and him seeing you because you’re shooting in smoke. You must really pay attention to these distances or the entire red fleet will open up on you the moment you are spotted. The perfect scenario. Is to ram into an island less than 4.44 km from your victim, light him up, and have your team kill him. Assuming that they are paying attention and prioritize DDs which they aren’t and don’t, respectively. Lo Yang, in contrast, has 2.4 km smoke firing detection and 5.44 km hydro ship detection. That’s a 3.04 km detection window, and it opens up all kinds of opportunities to bully and wreck red DDs. 

P.S. If a Z-39 lights you up with hydro from a smoke cloud and is shooting, charge him if you can survive the 1 km before you see him. 

P.P.S. The Z-39 is a much better DD as a package than the Assholio. 

Edited by Landing_Skipper
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