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Hmm. I was looking forward to T-61, honestly, though this sounds decent... well, that or a recap of my frustrations with Ernst Gaede. At least in that I preferred Leberecht Maass greatly to Gaede, T-61 sort of looks like the more agile, better DPM version to tubby, tanky Gaede in the same way that Maass looks like the more agile, better DPM sibling to tankier Z-39.

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Thanks for the review, but I am not interested in buying this ship at all.

They have been unable (or unwilling) to figure out how to balance the T-61 since October last year and instead they mostly copied the Z-23, found it wasn't much good at tier VIII, moved it down to tier VII, said 'eh, good enough' and slapped a price tag on it.

I don't doubt that you can do well with it considering you have the fifth upgrade slot, Tier VIII hydro, and lots of HP, but I've played this ship before. I've already grinded my way past the Z-23; I have the Z-46 and the Z-52 in my port. I didn't particularly like the Z-23 in the German DD line as it just felt underwhelming and moving it down a tier is not going to convince me to purchase it. If I did have it it wouldn't get much use as I already have plenty of DDs at that tier and its not like I can use this ship as a captain trainer for my current German DD captains because of the 150mm guns. 

In my opinion, the Z-39 is a cop out.

Having said that, I am glad that it is getting released because now they might start working on balancing the T-61 again... 

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On 5/13/2018 at 1:20 PM, GhostSwordsman said:

And I'm further annoyed that yet another gunboat gets better concealment than Akatsuki. Especially one that boasts 6.5k more hit points than her. Sure, Akatsuki gets a whole 2kts in speed over Z-39, but she still likely won't be able to run given that Z-39 can dictate when to reveal itself, and has hydro to light up an Akatsuki trying to use smoke to disengage.

Yep. I find myself playing it less and less. It's been powercreeped by stealthy gunboats -- GM, now this...

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Heh, I love how everyone is still going on and on about the T-61 as if it will EVER be released anywhere close to her previously tested version. 68 sec torp reload base? Heh, right.

Z-39 is a very powerful boat at tier 7. And the only premium German DD actually about to be released. If you're skipping it because your German DD captain is specced with BFT/AFT, I get it. If you're skipping it because it's not the T-61, you're shooting yourself in the foot and in for a huge world of disappointment. 

Reminds me of that scene in UHF with the Wheel of Fish where the lady had to choose between red snapper and a box. With all the ensuing dialogue ;)

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4 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Reminds me of that scene in UHF with the Wheel of Fish where the lady had to choose between red snapper and a box. With all the ensuing dialogue ;)

f7b.gif

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@LittleWhiteMouse Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but what nerfs would you suggest to the T-61 in order for it to not be borderline overpowered.

My initial thought was to ditch the hydro consumable as a trade off for having the better torp reload and better stealth.

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27 minutes ago, Noble_Taipan said:

@LittleWhiteMouse Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but what nerfs would you suggest to the T-61 in order for it to not be borderline overpowered.

My initial thought was to ditch the hydro consumable as a trade off for having the better torp reload and better stealth.

Just putting the same torp relaod as Gaede is enough. The other thing they could do is slap Gaede's stock torps range with the same reload as right now. WG will never release T-61 as she is, so better give up what is making her OP. 

Edited by hanesco

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47 minutes ago, Noble_Taipan said:

@LittleWhiteMouse Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but what nerfs would you suggest to the T-61 in order for it to not be borderline overpowered.

My initial thought was to ditch the hydro consumable as a trade off for having the better torp reload and better stealth.

Easiest way to nerf any destroyer is to hit them where it hurts:  Surface Detection.

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Thanks for the great review LWM, the gudbote graphic was great, needed a good laugh this morning. 

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Great review, packed with information, and really entertaining....

will most likely pass on the newest tier 7 DD, tier is getting a bit crowded with quality premiums like the Bly, Leningrad and Sims in this tier.  I also like running the Mada- have already grinded the German DD line, so really do not need a captain trainer.  Just not enough time in the day, and this feels a bit like a retread...

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I like Gaede quite a lot, this looks to be a better version at tier 7.  That stealth build.  Wowsa

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On 5/13/2018 at 3:45 PM, LittleWhiteMouse said:

p2IveRp.gif

KO, PERFECT

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This will be great for me, as none of my German DD captains are impeded by the 150mm guns.

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1 hour ago, HazardDrake said:

This will be great for me, as none of my German DD captains are impeded by the 150mm guns.

Ditto. I didn't feel BFT/AFT was worth it for how I played the german DDs. I also hoped to see 150mm premiums in the future as I absolutely loved those guns on the Z-23, my favorite ship on the line (after the Z-52 of course).

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On 5/14/2018 at 8:50 PM, wstugamd said:

LWM I hope you get commission cause you sold me on the z39

I don't work for Wargaming.  :fish_aqua:

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LWM I love your reviews but in this case I don't believe having tier 8 upgrade and high HP pool outweighs the fact that it is outgunned by EVERY German DD except the Tier 2 V-25. 

Here's a straight up DPM comparison between the tier 3 G-101 with BFT and the Z-39. Just pathetic. (Even without BFT the G-101 has higher DPM)

G-101
HE 80,016
AP 153,364

Z-39
HE 70,400
AP 118,400

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7 hours ago, xtermin8r69 said:

LWM I love your reviews but in this case I don't believe having tier 8 upgrade and high HP pool outweighs the fact that it is outgunned by EVERY German DD except the Tier 2 V-25. 

Here's a straight up DPM comparison between the tier 3 G-101 with BFT and the Z-39. Just pathetic. (Even without BFT the G-101 has higher DPM)

G-101
HE 80,016
AP 153,364

Z-39
HE 70,400
AP 118,400

The Z-39 has the exact same DPM as the tier 6 Gaede. 150mm guns are also significantly more powerful than 105mm ones for very obvious reasons.

The Z-39 has the same tier 7 torps as the Maass ... but with a much better concealment window to fire them.

The Z-39 health can't be understated at all here. It has comparable health to tier 10 DDs. I already felt the Z-23 had a huge health advantage at tier 8, but Z-39 gets that same health at tier 7.

So if you're talking about a main gun knockout race when fighting 1 on 1 against other DDs, it could actually be somewhat on par as Z-39s health would be balanced against the other DDs raw DPM. And I say somewhat as those 150mm guns will have a larger explosive radius and will be overall better at disrupting modules and disabling guns. But then if you add on all supporting cruisers and battleships shelling the two DDs, Z-39 will simply outlast the opposing DD by a sizeable margin. And if that opposing DD smokes up ... well, Z-39 does have tier 8 hydro.

Against cruisers and battleships, Z-39s 150mm guns are simply better. The penetration power behind those AP shells means you can reliably citadel broadside cruisers 10km away, whereas you have to get a lot closer with 128s.

Don't get me wrong ... I do think the main battery DPM on this ship is garbage. I'd much prefer seeing the Z-23s reload on her four guns. But when you take everything else into consideration, it's understandable why they kept it this way.

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19600HP makes it rather durable when getting shot at by radar cruisers

However, Maass and Z-23 have serious AP pen eating issues

How well does Z-39 handle BB AP?

as fat as Pizza Burgers Gearing, or as slim as Sushi Hatsuharu?

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All German DDs have issues with BB AP. There's no real getting around that. They are fat boats, long used to a diet of bacon and Haagen Dazs.

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19.6k HP for a Tier VII DD is fat a.f.!  Tier VIII Kidd with Survivability Expert is 19.5k.

 

I'll likely snag Z-39 up as my German DDs have no Premiums at all.  Cruisers?  Got Prinz.  BBs?  Scharnhorst, KA, and Tirpitz.  The DDs have been left out.

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Great review. Like your new capt skills chart, any way to update the older reviews to the new system?

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