Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Poharan

Why does Colorado feel so much worse than Nagato with regards to armor?

24 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
142 posts

Now, isn't a whine thread, so all you popcorn folks shoo. I'm just genuinely wondering if it's my own perception or there's something I'm overlooking in the stats/armor arrangement between the two.

Whenever I'm in the Colorado it feels like if any other BB 15in or greater (so most of them) chucks a round in my postal code I'm going to be taking full AP pen damage. No matter where or how they hit me or what angle I'm at. The amount of damage this thing soaks up is absolutely absurd.

Thing is, it didn't feel that bad back when I was grinding through my Nagato. But they're both covered in the same awful 25mm plating. I understand how overmatch mechanics work, so no need to go through that. 

My issue is that it felt like Nagato did better at mitigating damage that didn't hit her bow than Colorado does despite no difference in their armor strength that I'm noticing. Am I just fooling myself, or is there something I'm overlooking in their stats?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
348
[H-W-C]
Members
1,262 posts
3,355 battles

Colorado, like most super dreadnoughts, is kind of chubby, which decreases the chance of an overpen. Also, American dreadnoughts use the "all-or-nothing" armour scheme, which means that only the citadel and other important parts are armoured, while everything else has thin plating, which means that there are less parts that are thick enough to bounce battleship shells than on Nagato.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
351
[ZIPPO]
Members
1,558 posts
3,539 battles

It really shouldn't, the Nagato is just as soft and is prone to annoying random citadels even while angled. While I love both ships they are very fragile to higher tier 15" and 16" shells. Compared to the newer Tier 7 BBs the Nagato and Colorado have been really power creeped in the protection scheme but at least they still possess the best guns for their tier at least

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,513
[NSF]
Beta Testers
4,995 posts
5,951 battles

Neither ship is well protected when it comes to talking 16" gunfire. Nagato has the advantage of essentially being immune to citadels for about a quarter of her citadels length, but really neither are very well protected as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
900
Members
5,579 posts
3,952 battles

Nagato feels pretty squishy to me. Colorado slightly less so. It could be the way I play the ships, or that, since Nagato's faster, I find myself in unpleasant situations more with it. I have a bad habit of moving up too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,936 posts

Real life 

The tradition was to build a ship that was protected against it's own shells.

Because or budget reasons, Colorado was upgunned to 16" rifles but had the armor scheme of the preceding New Mexico class (14").

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
918
[LEGIO]
Members
2,994 posts
5,408 battles
5 minutes ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Real life 

The tradition was to build a ship that was protected against it's own shells.

Because or budget reasons, Colorado was upgunned to 16" rifles but had the armor scheme of the preceding New Mexico class (14").

Colorado still had more belt armor than Nagato though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
142 posts
21 minutes ago, warpath_33 said:

Colorado, like most super dreadnoughts, is kind of chubby, which decreases the chance of an overpen. Also, American dreadnoughts use the "all-or-nothing" armour scheme, which means that only the citadel and other important parts are armoured, while everything else has thin plating, which means that there are less parts that are thick enough to bounce battleship shells than on Nagato.

I think it might be as simple as this. Yeah.

I've been sitting in armor viewer for a while and it seems that, while thinner, Nagato's armor belt extends a bit higher up her side, which may be the cause of my feeling here.

Funny how something so small can change so much. Kind explains why balancing this game seems to be so hard. Hah.

Edited by Poharan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,774 posts
8,328 battles

I love the Colorado it's a good ship and it hits hard.  The only fall back is that the Colorado is a very slow ship max speed is at 21 knots.   Other wise the ship is fun.  Try using it's slow speed to your advantage.    The armor is good.  Just don't broadside in Colorado.

Edited by SuperSpud1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
764
[ARS]
Beta Testers
2,250 posts
1,844 battles
26 minutes ago, warpath_33 said:

Colorado, like most super dreadnoughts, is kind of chubby, which decreases the chance of an overpen. Also, American dreadnoughts use the "all-or-nothing" armour scheme, which means that only the citadel and other important parts are armoured, while everything else has thin plating, which means that there are less parts that are thick enough to bounce battleship shells than on Nagato.

Nagato also uses an all or nothing armor scheme.

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
925
[WOLF9]
Members
1,107 posts

You get hit by more shells in the Colorado because it is sloooooooooooooooowwwwwww. You can be lapped by manatees.

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,305 posts
21,091 battles
47 minutes ago, RichelieuKaiNi said:

Nagato feels pretty squishy to me. Colorado slightly less so.

I think so too.  I really liked the Fuso, but just played Nagato to get past it.  I still play the Fuso.  But I still play NM, and Colorado.  They fell a lot tankier than the IJN line.  Up until Musashi that is.   Izumooo  doesn't count.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
444
[INTEL]
Beta Testers
1,603 posts
4,032 battles
1 hour ago, warpath_33 said:

Colorado, like most super dreadnoughts, is kind of chubby, which decreases the chance of an overpen.

I don’t think overpens on hull hits are a thing for either one of these ships.

OP, look at the angles of the bows of both ships.  Nagato has sleeker lines from her prow to her full width, where Colorado has a much more pronounced double curve.  This means if you present the same bow-on, angled profile to an enemy, they actually have a flatter area to hit on Colorado than they do on Nagato.  That will result in fewer bounces for Colorado.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,739
[INTEL]
Members
8,587 posts
25,725 battles
16 hours ago, Poharan said:

I think it might be as simple as this. Yeah.

I've been sitting in armor viewer for a while and it seems that, while thinner, Nagato's armor belt extends a bit higher up her side, which may be the cause of my feeling here.

Funny how something so small can change so much. Kind explains why balancing this game seems to be so hard. Hah.

This plus Nagato is faster, which causes more misses, and makes it easier to wiggle out of harm's way, so cit hits become overpens. I've noticed that Colorado drivers seldom take advantage of her superb turning ability and tend to sail straight, which makes citadel and torp hits on her very easy. A Colorado whose driver is disciplined and keeps her turning will do well. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,610 posts
3,573 battles

Huh,  I actually did decent in the Nagato. For some reason I thought I remembered her being a lose magnet for me but...anyway,  Colorado is the less agile of the two and it shows.  I could do some decent wiggling in the Naga and even escape but the once the Colorado commits to a position,  you're stuck.  Coupled with her sweet spot being around ten KM while the Nagato can sit comfortable around fourteen KM and do well,  I'd say its because you Colorado ends up being a bullet magnet more often.  So while she may be able to take more shots,  she is going to get shot at more often.

Just a guess, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
394
Members
2,394 posts
7,710 battles
2 hours ago, Poharan said:

My issue is that it felt like Nagato did better at mitigating damage that didn't hit her bow than Colorado does despite no difference in their armor strength that I'm noticing. Am I just fooling myself, or is there something I'm overlooking in their stats?

Nagato is faster. Those 21 kts of Colorado makes her a easy target. Nagato is also better at ranges and can stay further away than Colorado. Which again makes colorado a easier target to hit than Nagato.

 

So in resume, Colorado is slower and need to play closer to the enemy. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,504
[AHOY_]
Beta Testers
6,491 posts
3,435 battles

In addition to it just being due to Colorado's overall design, there's also the fact that most players aim for the upper sections of Colorado to deal more consistent damage (like most players do vs KM and USN BBs in general) rather than attempting a citadel strike unless they're close enough. As well, A Colorado cornered is a very juicy target that gets focused down quite often.

Nagato on the other hand, is fairly trollish when angled like much of the IJN BB line, but is a lot more susceptible to a citpen if they bare the broadside at the wrong moment. It's pretty often that players aim lower vs a Nagato rather than aiming up in the hopes of scoring a sweet citadel (the result being plenty of decent Nagato players baiting shots just to turn into/away from them and shrug it off). Nagato also has the speed, range, and accuracy to stay out of the way until the late-game, which helps with damage mitigation (can't damage what you can't effectively hit).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
784
[STW-M]
Members
2,070 posts
5,874 battles

The key thing to realize is that while your bow may be overmatched, your belt armor is not.

Don't sail bow on, but instead at a slight angle. Properly done, shells will bounce off of your side armor.

Of course, against anything with <380mm guns, you can go bow-on all day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
351
[ZIPPO]
Members
1,558 posts
3,539 battles

I keep seeing people say the Nagato is fast but she really isn't anymore, 25 knots isn't much better and is closer to 21knots than it is to the KM BBs 30 knots. The KGV and Lyon leave her in the dust also. She's now the second slowest T7 BB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,739
[INTEL]
Members
8,587 posts
25,725 battles
17 hours ago, Psycodiver said:

I keep seeing people say the Nagato is fast but she really isn't anymore, 25 knots isn't much better and is closer to 21knots than it is to the KM BBs 30 knots. The KGV and Lyon leave her in the dust also. She's now the second slowest T7 BB

Yes, but she's faster than Colorado. That's what people are saying. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
351
[ZIPPO]
Members
1,558 posts
3,539 battles
45 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Yes, but she's faster than Colorado. That's what people are saying. 

Yea but not by much is my point, she isn't going to exactly run away from HE spam any better than the Colorado, especially with her "look at me from the other side of the planet" concealment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
85
[LEGIT]
Members
380 posts
8,597 battles

Could it be that the Colorado also has a lot more superstructure on the top? There stuff everywhere up there, whereas Nagato just has the tall mast and smoke stacks? Apart from the speed difference, the width difference, the small armor differences ( where it's applied)? I mean if you combine all those things you start stacking quite a few minimal factors together to start seeing a more noticeable difference perhaps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,815
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
16,125 posts
14,528 battles

Nagato can eat citadels badly if you catch her sides.  Colorado?  She's big, fat, slow, and easy to hit.  You may not get as much citadels against a Colorado unless you have favorable shooting conditions, but CO eats pens, pens, pens, and MOAR PENS.  Regardless of shell size that CO deals with, she gets penetrated easily.  Colorado is a magnet for shells and the worst part is she's too big, too slow, too clumsy to evade that gunfire.  She just eats hits and damage like a fish swims in water.

 

She's a lot better than she used to be when WoWS launched, but she has problems still.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×