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TheDreadnought

I like them, but there’s a problem with the new Tier 10 upgrades.

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A lot of the new Tier 10 upgrades look pretty sweet.  I’m anxious to see what WG lands on.  Several could really help with my love of brawling.

But there is a problem....

This will increase the power gap between Tier 10 and Tier 8, even more than it already is.

Tier 8s will have no business being in games with Tier 10s anymore.   They don’t really as it is.

If WG goes forward with this idea, they should exclude Tier 8s from all Tier 10 games.

Tier 9s could still see Tier 8s or Tier 10s, but not both at the same time.

Tier 10s would only see Tier 9s and 10s.

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6 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

A lot of the new Tier 10 upgrades look pretty sweet.  I’m anxious to see what WG lands on.  Several could really help with my love of brawling.

But there is a problem....

This will increase the power gap between Tier 10 and Tier 8, even more than it already is.

Tier 8s will have no business being in games with Tier 10s anymore.   They don’t really as it is.

If WG goes forward with this idea, they should exclude Tier 8s from all Tier 10 games.

Tier 9s could still see Tier 8s or Tier 10s, but not both at the same time.

Tier 10s would only see Tier 9s and 10s.

maybe this is a precursor to +0-0 MM

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22 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

maybe this is a precursor to +0-0 MM

Well you really only need +1/-1 and only for Tier 10.

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It's also another nerf to the Midways fighters.  Of course IJN will have to give up attack craft survivability but I will put money on it most Hak captains take it.  This is rather stupid,  to be frank.  The numbers have already swung around on the RU server to make it close and on every OTHER server the Hak is now beating the Midway but hey!  Lets give her even LESS control over the sky! 

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29 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

maybe this is a precursor to +0-0 MM

Seriously, you taking bets on that Amigo?

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I don't like these upgrades. They're more complications to balance and are generally good enough where you are forced to take them over other ones.

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8 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Seriously, you taking bets on that Amigo?

Seriously?!

Are you talking to me?!

Are you talking to me?!

Are you talking to me?!

(just being an idiot here)

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48 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

A lot of the new Tier 10 upgrades look pretty sweet.  I’m anxious to see what WG lands on.  Several could really help with my love of brawling.

But there is a problem....

This will increase the power gap between Tier 10 and Tier 8, even more than it already is.

Tier 8s will have no business being in games with Tier 10s anymore.   They don’t really as it is.

If WG goes forward with this idea, they should exclude Tier 8s from all Tier 10 games.

Tier 9s could still see Tier 8s or Tier 10s, but not both at the same time.

Tier 10s would only see Tier 9s and 10s.

 

41 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

maybe this is a precursor to +0-0 MM

 

10 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Seriously, you taking bets on that Amigo?

The word Maybe is key, it signifies there is some doubt. Why would I bet on something that even I have Doubts?

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3 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

The word Maybe is key, it signifies there is some doubt. Why would I bet on something that even I have Doubts?

All bets are doubts; that's why it's called a bet and not a savings account.

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Just now, Umikami said:

All bets are doubts; that's why it's called a bet and not a savings account.

Except the ones that are rigged.

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3 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

Except the ones that are rigged.

Yeah ... but not you.

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9 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Yeah ... but not you.

I neither agree nor deny. Worked at Arlington Race track when I was a teen. 

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1 hour ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

I don't like these upgrades. They're more complications to balance and are generally good enough where you are forced to take them over other ones.

On top of this I don't really understand the point.  To give T10's another edge against T9's?

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Wargaming has previously said that they don't like to give ships different gun options as it makes the stats and performance to hard to track. That was a reason for Mogami's 155's languishing with terrible traverse, and for not making a KGV with a 14in and 15in option.

If they roll out these incredibly high-impact (in some cases) modules but they're not universally available or used, how will they be able to balance ships? Will poorly performing ships just get written off as 'using wrong module' or will they get buffed when they're already solid with the improved module?

 

I do not think this is wise. If for some insane reason you want to buff T10's pretty widely (T8 not an awful enough experience?) then do it by buffing the ships in a systematic and controlled manner, not with these mystery modules.

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How about adjusting T10 matchmaking such that in any given T10 match, 75% of all ships are T10, with the rest populated by T9s, and prevent T8 from matching against T10. Just a thought experiment.

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Yamato's module gives it an accuracy buff. I can't wait to see what tier 8 battleship drivers think about 9 shell hits at 25 km :Smile_hiding:

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I don't see any problem with a T10 having more power against T8. I played many T8 and still play T8 ship without having any issue dealing with T10 ship. Those mod will not make T10 ship more broken against T8. If player already know how to counter a Yamato with their Charles Martel, it will not change simply because Yamato now have an accuracy buff. 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I don't see any problem with a T10 having more power against T8. I played many T8 and still play T8 ship without having any issue dealing with T10 ship. Those mod will not make T10 ship more broken against T8. If player already know how to counter a Yamato with their Charles Martel, it will not change simply because Yamato now have an accuracy buff. 

For you, with near 7 thousand battles or me, with near 3 thousand, it won't be a huge deal. But for players just rolling out in their very first tier 8? Tier 5 is already the make-or-break tier for new players, and we lose enough new blood there by putting them against tier 7's against which they have little recourse but to be an exp pinata. Adding another one at tier 8 will simply cull the population further.

And whether we like it or not, old players do eventually move on. A game that fails to keep new players is a dying game. That's, imo, the major issue here. That and the availability of these upgrades, since we have enough balance issues with the current special super-container or ranked only ones.

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Relax. Many of these upgrade modules are strong, but not overwhelmingly so. There are also some that are utter garbage compared to what is currently available. I have no doubt there will be some balancing done before they are finalized. Maybe wait and react then?

By the way, I know some of you are absolutely horrified by the Yamato one, but you're blowing it way out of proportion. Yamato already has not only ridiculously good base dispersion for a BB, but it also has the best sigma of any ship in the whole game. Its shells *already* mostly hit dead center as is. The dispersion buff will be nice, certainly, but nowhere near as nice as it would on, say, a Kurfurst or Republique. And the turret traverse difference on Yamato will most certainly be felt. In the end, this mod would make Yamato slightly better at longer range volleys while making it even worse when up close. Basically, it'll become more of itself. Trust me, there are other mods that are way stronger, for example the Hindy one.

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17 minutes ago, DaryaKonstantin said:

For you, with near 7 thousand battles or me, with near 3 thousand, it won't be a huge deal. But for players just rolling out in their very first tier 8? Tier 5 is already the make-or-break tier for new players, and we lose enough new blood there by putting them against tier 7's against which they have little recourse but to be an exp pinata. Adding another one at tier 8 will simply cull the population further.

And whether we like it or not, old players do eventually move on. A game that fails to keep new players is a dying game. That's, imo, the major issue here. That and the availability of these upgrades, since we have enough balance issues with the current special super-container or ranked only ones.

 

I understand that point of view, but I still think it's really not an issue.

 

If we're talking about T8, it means people managed to make their way through the horrible T5 and 6 MM and the favourable T7MM. I suppose they found out the hard way that showing broadside as a cruiser is a death sentence especially when...any ship with AP loaded is in front of him. I also find out the hard way these things, but I was really intrested in the game so I watched several CC vid such as Notser and Flamu so I kept improving. Once you reach T8 you're supposed to know at least some basics of the game.  

 

Also if people managed to unlock their T8 it means they are most likely really motivated to play the game. I saw so many people giving up starting T4-5-6 because the game is either too hard for them or because being bottom tier is not fun. At T8 most ship becomes more enjoyable, even against up tier ship. Kagerou for instance is a great DD that do fine-great no matter the tier. Put her against T10 ? She's the stealthiest DD in the game. Put her against T6 ? She still the stealthiest DD but on top of that her gunpower and torps are enough to make other ship scary of her.  

Most T8 ship are great and you even have access to new tool and concealment mod. If you work with that, even a New Orlean can do great against T10 opponent. Yes it requires more knowledge of the game, yes it will be harder, but if you don't struggle a bit to reach your T10 ship, you'll have less enjoyment playing her. 

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56 minutes ago, DaryaKonstantin said:

For you, with near 7 thousand battles or me, with near 3 thousand, it won't be a huge deal. But for players just rolling out in their very first tier 8? Tier 5 is already the make-or-break tier for new players, and we lose enough new blood there by putting them against tier 7's against which they have little recourse but to be an exp pinata. Adding another one at tier 8 will simply cull the population further.

And whether we like it or not, old players do eventually move on. A game that fails to keep new players is a dying game. That's, imo, the major issue here. That and the availability of these upgrades, since we have enough balance issues with the current special super-container or ranked only ones.

Im Out of up votes but your point is right on the nail.

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17 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I understand that point of view, but I still think it's really not an issue.

If we're talking about T8, it means people managed to make their way through the horrible T5 and 6 MM and the favourable T7MM. I suppose they found out the hard way that showing broadside as a cruiser is a death sentence especially when...any ship with AP loaded is in front of him. I also find out the hard way these things, but I was really intrested in the game so I watched several CC vid such as Notser and Flamu so I kept improving. Once you reach T8 you're supposed to know at least some basics of the game.  

Also if people managed to unlock their T8 it means they are most likely really motivated to play the game. I saw so many people giving up starting T4-5-6 because the game is either too hard for them or because being bottom tier is not fun. At T8 most ship becomes more enjoyable, even against up tier ship. Kagerou for instance is a great DD that do fine-great no matter the tier. Put her against T10 ? She's the stealthiest DD in the game. Put her against T6 ? She still the stealthiest DD but on top of that her gunpower and torps are enough to make other ship scary of her.  

Most T8 ship are great and you even have access to new tool and concealment mod. If you work with that, even a New Orlean can do great against T10 opponent. Yes it requires more knowledge of the game, yes it will be harder, but if you don't struggle a bit to reach your T10 ship, you'll have less enjoyment playing her. 

Struggle is...tier 5 is the Grand Cull, entrance to +2/-2, with a side dose of "bend over" if you're bottom tier, especially on your first match. Tier 9 is the paywall full of mediocre ships (there are some gems) that many of us free exp past at least partially.

While that may be true for some that they found out all that (I know the reason I only have 1 tier 10 is that I spread my efforts across most lines), many people start this game because there's one or a couple historical ship they want to play, and thus I would presume some end up with a single 8+ when they have nothing else except tier 1 or 2's. You also mention CC's. I too have watched them, and I agree they help greatly, shouldn't be necessary to be moderately okay at the game. That's called a Guide Dang It, and is bad for a game's long term health. 

I would argue that tier 8's going up against tier 10's is as much a power gap as 5's to 7's. Many of the tier 8's are great ships, but they're still two tiers lower. The biggest culprit here is the +2/-2 mm. It's quite hard to balance when things have to not be invincible in tier 6-8 matches but also not be total pushovers in tier 8-10 matches when power levels and meta are so greatly different.

The tier 10's don't need across the board buffs as a tier (balance among themselves is another matter entirely...). They already enjoy always being top dog, the giant in the playground. That itself should be enough. 

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Wow now to punish people in tier 8 ships even more. Not only are you generally out gunned performance wise now you will have to content with "special" modules that in a +2/2 MM are going to make it even worse to be low tiered.

If you do this WG you need to make sure tier 10 can only fight other tier 10. To subject lower tier players to this is a bad idea and a great and awesome way to kill this game end game wise. Why would any player work their way up to tier 8 just to get eaten by higher tier ships? I can't wait to hear how its becoming nearly impossible to field a game past rank 7.

What incentives do new players even have to work past tier 7 now? At least at 7 you at worst deal with tier 9 ships and you don't have to worry about being screwed because you don't have "the SPECIAL MODULE".

Plus tier 7 has lots of great ships.

Why bother with 10? What do the lower tiers get for feeding themselves to tier 10?

 

Edited by xalmgrey

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5 hours ago, CarbonButtprint said:

Yamato's module gives it an accuracy buff. I can't wait to see what tier 8 battleship drivers think about 9 shell hits at 25 km :Smile_hiding:

That’s about what I thought when I read over the summary. Yeah.... Yamato really needs an accuracy buff.  

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I'm not a fan of the new modules right now, because I look at the commander skills now in place and feel they could use a bit of work (as has been discussed elsewhere) before something new and so complicated is added to the game. The current ship modules, while not perfect, seem to be working fairly well. At this point, with so many other issues at hand, it almost seems as if they're trying to fix something that isn't broken. But there's almost certainly a big picture that I'm not privy to and so I will remain patient and hopeful that someone somewhere knows what they're doing. It's interesting the idea wasn't presented to the recent CC gathering for opinions.

Edited by _Starbuck

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