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InventedThought

Stealth firing

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Having a bit of trouble understanding  the firing from smoke mechanic. Do you add the firing from smoke detection range to the Detection by sea? I.E. detection range is 6.1 km + the 2.3 km firing from smoke for a total of 8.4 km? (I just picked random #'s for the question).:cap_yes:

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13 minutes ago, InventedThought said:

Having a bit of trouble understanding  the firing from smoke mechanic. Do you add the firing from smoke detection range to the Detection by sea? I.E. detection range is 6.1 km + the 2.3 km firing from smoke for a total of 8.4 km? (I just picked random #'s for the question).:cap_yes:

When you fire in smoke, your detection foes up to your smoke firing range (like if you have 3km smoke firing detection when you fire in smoke your detection goes up to 3km)

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You don't add ranges. The listed ranges are the ones you get spotted from, when under those conditions.

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I should have worded the topic differently. I am having trouble with detection. I always feel like I am being out spotted no matter what I am playing. DD wise. No matter what technique I try. I use the mini map, have my detection ranges displayed. Moving up in tiers I understand that ships have radar and better hydro. I have found out that BB are the easiest to play and DD's are hardest to play. Most of my battles are in t5 (for the life of me I don't know why) probably a Psychological thing of if I can master this tier yada, yada. May haps I have just hit a skill wall. I am not sure how to enable replays so I just watch Lord Zaths  replay theatre, you tube video's try to sponge up as much info as I can. (This I starting to sound like a Dear Abbey letter). I probably just need to settle into 1 or 2 ships and concentrate on those. I think I should learn more about support tactics. Trying to be a team player definitely requires way more thought and skill than just bang bang. Any how thanks for the help much appreciated.

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35 minutes ago, InventedThought said:

I should have worded the topic differently. I am having trouble with detection. I always feel like I am being out spotted no matter what I am playing. DD wise. No matter what technique I try. I use the mini map, have my detection ranges displayed. Moving up in tiers I understand that ships have radar and better hydro. I have found out that BB are the easiest to play and DD's are hardest to play. Most of my battles are in t5 (for the life of me I don't know why) probably a Psychological thing of if I can master this tier yada, yada. May haps I have just hit a skill wall. I am not sure how to enable replays so I just watch Lord Zaths  replay theatre, you tube video's try to sponge up as much info as I can. (This I starting to sound like a Dear Abbey letter). I probably just need to settle into 1 or 2 ships and concentrate on those. I think I should learn more about support tactics. Trying to be a team player definitely requires way more thought and skill than just bang bang. Any how thanks for the help much appreciated.

Ok if you’re in tier 5 dd’s, how many commander skills do you have? You really need 10 points in a dd at almost any tier because of Concealment Expert. This drops your detection and also camo helps a small amount. If you don’t have either of these you are likely to be outspotted by most if not all dd’s. I don’t think there are any hydros that will outspot your detection range at tier 7 and there are limited radars so know those ships and if you smoke, make sure they aren’t near. If you’re really having a hard time with being detected, sit back some. Not much but leave yourself a 1.5km+ stealth window. Just keep trying. It comes over time. 

Disclaimer: I am not a DD expert

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Belyy Klyk is right.  Concealment Expert is a must-have on DD’s and almost always your first choice of 4-point skill on any boat.

Other tips from a DD main:

When you are approaching a cap at the beginning of the game, turn around or sideways before you get too close, then slow down.  Let the other DD come to you, while you’re pointed away.  If you are pointed bow-in to the enemy, then the speed and momentum of the ships will close your distance to an enemy DD so much that you’ll never be able to escape spotting range after that.  If you’re pointed away, you’ll be able to run and open up the distance to get unspotted again.

Similarly when navigating around islands. You don’t want to peek out from a corner to be surprised at close range.  Use the minimap spotting circles to make sure that the corner of the land you’re trying to get around is just outside your spotting range, in case anyone is lurking there for you.

Also watch out for being surrounded. You don’t want to push in to a position where you have enemies on both flanks, even if you’re currently unspotted. If one of them turns into you, you’ll get sandwiched before you can escape.

Minimap, minimap, minimap.  Know not only where the reds are, but what heading they’re taking.  Playing DD is a bit like playing Asteroids in the sense that you’re trying to find the open spaces and not get “hit” by the spotting of a red “asteroid” floating around.  You need to read how the reds are moving and predict where the gaps will be, and when the asteroids will close in on you.

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Just to add to the above, it's very important to know the detection range of your competition as well.  If you're going to be out detected, you're going to need to adjust your play style accordingly. Similarly, if you have the best detection, you can use that info to your advantage.  If you're into mods, there are some mods that will show the best possible detection range for every ship in your game. (included in the official WG pack(s)).

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nob is right. The main point of a DD is to remain unseen for as long as possible.

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On 5/13/2018 at 4:11 AM, n00bot said:

Similarly when navigating around islands. You don’t want to peek out from a corner to be surprised at close range.  Use the minimap spotting circles to make sure that the corner of the land you’re trying to get around is just outside your spotting range, in case anyone is lurking there for you.

Also watch out for being surrounded. You don’t want to push in to a position where you have enemies on both flanks, even if you’re currently unspotted. If one of them turns into you, you’ll get sandwiched before you can escape.

Minimap, minimap, minimap.  Know not only where the reds are, but what heading they’re taking.  Playing DD is a bit like playing Asteroids in the sense that you’re trying to find the open spaces and not get “hit” by the spotting of a red “asteroid” floating around.  You need to read how the reds are moving and predict where the gaps will be, and when the asteroids will close in on you.

Firing torps near islands: Sit away from the Island, instead of hugging it. After seeing your opponent, your following steps will be: hard turn right(toward the island), Launch torps at opponent (from LHS) and finally, escape into the island's shadow, pointing away from the other ship and jack up your speed to where it should be. 

Minimap: in a destroyer I now spend more time watching the minimap than whats' in front of my ship. A key item is to check the minimap BEFORE LAUNCHING TORPS. Too many times I have worked carefully into a position for launching torps, lined up a perfect shot, and some fool CL ZOOMS INTO MY LINE OF FIRE, eating all 3 or 4 torps nicely. I wear the teamkill penalty and blow up as well. Appeal process? None. Court martial where I can make a defense? Not likely.

They are my torps, it's my fault. It doesn't matter that the CL was out of position - why does a 12km gun range make you want to be 3km away from enemy ships and in front of a dds line of fire? Do you not realise that dds fire torps? Are you the only ship on the team? Currently when I see a ship driving randomly, out of position, and in my zone, I simply turn and leave. Within 1-2 minutes they are dead, and I can go back to doing my strategy. 

It doesn't matter how stupid the other guy was. You'll wear the tk penalty. 

Minimap, minimap, minimap (thank you n00bot).

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On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 5:49 PM, IronShibby said:

Firing torps near islands: Sit away from the Island, instead of hugging it. After seeing your opponent, your following steps will be: hard turn right(toward the island), Launch torps at opponent (from LHS) and finally, escape into the island's shadow, pointing away from the other ship and jack up your speed to where it should be. 

I have to try this I always seem to want to turn out from the islands which gets me rekt  because I am spotted thanks for this tip +1

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On 5/12/2018 at 11:26 AM, real_icebeast said:

Just to add to the above, it's very important to know the detection range of your competition as well.  If you're going to be out detected, you're going to need to adjust your play style accordingly. Similarly, if you have the best detection, you can use that info to your advantage.  If you're into mods, there are some mods that will show the best possible detection range for every ship in your game. (included in the official WG pack(s)).

You can also check the concealment values of the ships you will be facing by hovering over their icons on the team line-up screen. You can compare your values for  concealment (and guns, torps, speed, etc.) there. If someone has the same ship as you with better concealment, they have camo and/or captain skills you don't. You need to know this going into a match.

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A few more details on concealment...

  • As others have stated, the four point captain skill Concealment Expert is a must-have on any destroyer above tier 4.  And yes, on just about any ship above tier 4.  Move your captain up the line as you unlock new ships & spend the 200k credits to accelerate his retraining each time (unless you're willing to spend 500 doubloons to eliminate retraining altogether).  As you get up to tier 5 & above, start using your signals and camouflages which boost captain experience.  
  • Know your Assured Detectability Range.  In destroyers this is generally (always?) 2.0 km.  This is the range at which you'll be seen no matter what--firing, not firing, in smoke, behind an island, whatever.  Note that tier 8 and higher ships have the option of mounting a Target Acquisition System Modification, which will extend your assured detection range by 50% relative to that ship (so 3km).  This module is rarely seen as it occupies the same slot as the generally more useful Concealment System Modification, but do be aware that it exists.
  • The game server uses the center-most portion of your ship when figuring line of sight for detection purposes.  This means that even if a tiny bit of your bow or stern is poking out of your smoke cloud or around an island, you are still "hidden" so far as the game is concerned.  The same rule applies when capturing or contesting a point.
  • The bloom from your main guns occurs instantly when you fire them, and lasts for 20 seconds after you have stopped firing.  Take this into account when deciding on when to open up, and combine this with knowledge or your normal detection range when deciding when to cease fire and "go dark".
  • The "bloom" from anti-aircraft guns works differently from the detection bloom applied to your main guns.  Your detection range will only increase to the maximum range of your AA guns (which is considerably shorter than your main gun range), will not increase at all if you are inside smoke, and the bloom will disappear instantly if you turn your AA systems back off (the "P" key by default).  In the case of many low tier destroyers, your AA range is actually less than your detection range by aircraft, meaning there is absolutely no point in ever turning off your AA guns on these ships.
  • Radar and Hydroacoustic Search can "see" you through everything.  Smoke, islands, it doesn't matter.  It is highly advisable that you learn the maximum ranges for these consumables on enemy ships within your matchmaking range, as well as their duration.  Do keep in mind, though, that while these items can see you through terrain, you cannot be shot through terrain--sometimes the best course of action when you get lit up is to steam toward the enemy in order to make use of terrain, providing of course that you have enough friendly backup nearby to discourage them from rounding said island immediately.
  • Speaking of using terrain, keep those lines of sight in mind when positioning yourself.  You can often save smoke charges by simply parking behind a land mass and firing over it--so long as no enemy ships or aircraft have a clear line of sight to your ship you will remain undetected, unless an enemy ship sails within your assured detection radius (or uses radar/hydro).  Even if you do get spotted, you still have a big ol' island you can quickly hug to block enemy fire or to shield you from most of it as you run away initiate a tactical withdrawal.
  • As with all things, the place to test the limits of your stealth and develop new tactics to put it to better use are the low tiers.  First, because the quality of ships and the general abilities of your opponents mean that you'll be "punished" far less severely when you have an "oops" moment.  Second, because your teammates are generally not going to be as salty when you inevitably get something wrong and die horribly create a learning opportunity for yourself.
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