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legozer

I'm making a thread about radar

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I hate radar whines! In random, you need to learn how to play against radar and you'll be just fine.

Ranked, however....

Once the island cockroaches find a rock to hide behind, it's over. The game completely seems to revolve around the roaches and their radar. The dirtiest roaches find the same rock they hide under on every map and scurry over to it to hide from the light. Then it's radar, radar, radar, radar, radar until the game ends.

Now, I make fun of constant radar whining and moaning. It's actually stupid: learn to play against it, cuz radar is waaaaaaaaay over hyped in random. But in ranked, it seems to be a different story, and it really makes the game play boring and static. I'm bored stiff with the T10 meta in this season of ranked. A fun game is full of Henris and Hindys. A boring slog is Minotaurs and Des Moines. Just awful.

And, hey, I'm not blaming the cockroach players: by all means, play what works! Use a ship that wins. I'm just saying:

It's a tough season for DD players.

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I still remember the smoke camping fest that was the last few ranked seasons. I hold zero sympathy to the ships that rely upon smoke to be viable. Let those destroyers and light cruisers cry, I came to fight naval battles, not have a virtual boat ride through San Fransisco Bay in the morning.

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5 minutes ago, legozer said:

Now, I make fun of constant radar whining and moaning. It's actually stupid: learn to play against it, cuz radar is waaaaaaaaay over hyped in random. But in ranked, it seems to be a different story, and it really makes the game play boring and static.

The problem is that, since day one, radar has been a horrible terrible miserable mechanic. It's true that in most random games, it's not much of an issue. Even in T8 ranked I didn't find it to be a super huge deal.

But T10 ranked. Uhg. When "baiting" radar means a fairly significant chance you'll be deleted before you can sail out of radar range (radar up times are so long that you're not gonna live through it with T10 ships firing at you) it's just painful to play a DD. You can play it safe, in which case, nothing happens, and the first kill or the first cap ends up deciding the match. Or you take the risk to try to make something happen, accepting the chance that you team will berate you non-stop if you happen to catch a couple BB AP shells and get deleted.

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2 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

I still remember the smoke camping fest that was the last few ranked seasons. I hold zero sympathy to the ships that rely upon smoke to be viable. Let those destroyers and light cruisers cry, I came to fight naval battles, not have a virtual boat ride through San Fransisco Bay in the morning.

Smoke? Hahaha

This has nothing to do with smoke. It has to do with running into ships like the DM, whose detection range is pretty much equal to their radar range. The second they are spotted they hit radar and there you are, for all the world to see (and shoot).

There's enough wiggle room to try and work around it when the enemy radar ship is sitting stationary and you know where it is. But it's a nightmare if you're trying to spot the DM and he's sailing in your direction; it takes so long to turn out and exit the radar range of a pursuing DM that you're almost always going to be long dead.

 

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2 minutes ago, Lensar said:

Smoke? Hahaha

This has nothing to do with smoke. It has to do with running into ships like the DM, whose detection range is pretty much equal to their radar range. The second they are spotted they hit radar and there you are, for all the world to see (and shoot).

There's enough wiggle room to try and work around it when the enemy radar ship is sitting stationary and you know where it is. But it's a nightmare if you're trying to spot the DM and he's sailing in your direction; it takes so long to turn out and exit the radar range of a pursuing DM that you're almost always going to be long dead.

 

Just who do you think is actually bemoaning the radar cruisers? It's certainly not the battleships, they're not effected. It is the destroyers and light cruisers that rely upon at least a modicum of stealth to sneak into range, pop a smoke screen, and then let loose volley after volley of gun fire that are crying from the roof tops about radar.

One does not waste a charge of radar on just the hunch that MAYBE, the enemy ship is within range of the radar. One uses radar only when they are certain of aforementioned fact, namely, someone is stealth capping a point, be it in passive stealth, or from within a smoke screen, or that someone popped a smoke screen and is shredding a friendly exp/silver pinata (battleship).

Also, where exactly are your friendly battleships on this theoretical DM? A notoriously squishy CA, over-extending itself to chase down a stealthy ship, most likely a destroyer? They'd be all over that DM like white on rice, assuming you didn't YOLO off on your lone-some, at which point you deserve what's coming.

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3 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

Just who do you think is actually bemoaning the radar cruisers? It's certainly not the battleships, they're not effected. It is the destroyers and light cruisers that rely upon at least a modicum of stealth to sneak into range, pop a smoke screen, and then let loose volley after volley of gun fire that are crying from the roof tops about radar.

One does not waste a charge of radar on just the hunch that MAYBE, the enemy ship is within range of the radar. One uses radar only when they are certain of aforementioned fact, namely, someone is stealth capping a point, be it in passive stealth, or from within a smoke screen, or that someone popped a smoke screen and is shredding a friendly exp/silver pinata (battleship).

Also, where exactly are your friendly battleships on this theoretical DM? A notoriously squishy CA, over-extending itself to chase down a stealthy ship, most likely a destroyer? They'd be all over that DM like white on rice, assuming you didn't YOLO off on your lone-some, at which point you deserve what's coming.

not from what ive seen most people are so focused on camping hard and DD do need to spot for team so being in open is only way to get vision on island huggers sometimes

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1 minute ago, GuntherPrein said:

not from what ive seen most people are so focused on camping hard and DD do need to spot for team so being in open is only way to get vision on island huggers sometimes

The thing that I've noticed about the island huggers is that they limit themselves in their fields of fire and view. The only trick is to find a blind spot, and exploit it to allow for an advance to uproot the enemy.

If nothing else, you always just disengage your brain and sling HE at them whenever they poke out to fire, like it's some WoT match.

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I'm definately going to try yamato with spotter plane if I make it to rank 10 in time so SPLAT those cruisers. 

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Lensar has it right: the first cap or kill is likely the win. Once one of the roaches has successfully found a rock, it becomes almost impossible to take the cap. It's boring and dull.

I like the way that radar works in the chappy: fairly long reach, but lasts only seconds longer than the McRib. The DM radar kinda ruins ranked.

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9 minutes ago, CarbonButtprint said:

I'm definately going to try yamato with spotter plane if I make it to rank 10 in time so SPLAT those cruisers. 

Yamato can't shoot through islands.

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Just now, legozer said:

Yamato can't shoot through islands.

That's right, but what Yamato can do is use its great concealment to get to a better positon, then use its somewhat slow velocity to drop in the shells (which are tightly grouped) and the cruiser can't react. It doesn't happen every game but when the time is right it's hilarious to surprise cruisers. 

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1 hour ago, legozer said:

I hate radar whines! In random, you need to learn how to play against radar and you'll be just fine.

Ranked, however....

Once the island cockroaches find a rock to hide behind, it's over. The game completely seems to revolve around the roaches and their radar. The dirtiest roaches find the same rock they hide under on every map and scurry over to it to hide from the light. Then it's radar, radar, radar, radar, radar until the game ends.

Now, I make fun of constant radar whining and moaning. It's actually stupid: learn to play against it, cuz radar is waaaaaaaaay over hyped in random. But in ranked, it seems to be a different story, and it really makes the game play boring and static. I'm bored stiff with the T10 meta in this season of ranked. A fun game is full of Henris and Hindys. A boring slog is Minotaurs and Des Moines. Just awful.

And, hey, I'm not blaming the cockroach players: by all means, play what works! Use a ship that wins. I'm just saying:

It's a tough season for DD players.

Every veteran knows how to play against radar. They are not complaining because they lack skills and experience. They are complaining because radar is inherently broken and degrades the playing environment. It is an I-win button for the team that has more of it. 

Please stop writing posts as if the issue was skill.

The effect of radar is only intensified in ranked. It is not materially different from random.  I agree with you that radar makes life very difficult for destroyers in Ranked. But as long as WG wants DD's dead there is little we can do about it. Sometimes I do not understand why the developers put destroyers in the game....

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51 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

Just who do you think is actually bemoaning the radar cruisers? It's certainly not the battleships, they're not effected. It is the destroyers and light cruisers that rely upon at least a modicum of stealth to sneak into range, pop a smoke screen, and then let loose volley after volley of gun fire that are crying from the roof tops about radar.

Um, no. I mean, sure there are some ships that might try and use smoke, but other than the German DD, it's generally suicide to sit stupidly in smoke, regardless of radar.

There are a whole slew of DDs who don't use smoke to fire. In fact, that's most DDs. Radar has a much more dramatic effect on them than on any smoke huffers.

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LIne of sight will stop radar camping. It will provide the necessary expense for its use. It's a free pass for the player using it:

They don't expose their position using it (ex: smoke); 

They don't make themselves vulnerable using it (ex: fire main guns) .

Ships seen by can't counter it (ex: nearly always used from behind solid object).

Fair and balanced?

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Honestly, when radar is active, a ship's detection radius should extend to gun bloom range, at least.

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6 minutes ago, Lensar said:

Honestly, when radar is active, a ship's detection radius should extend to gun bloom range, at least.

I disagree. I think the real issue is with duration and cool down time.

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I saw a graphic around here somewhere on a thread about another subject. It clearly showed that cruisers were being played Level 10 and up as nearly as much as BB's and DD's added together. It doesnt take a genius to figure out why.  I wish I could remember what thread it was

 

Edited by Wyngs_2015

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2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Every veteran knows how to play against radar. They are not complaining because they lack skills and experience. They are complaining because radar is inherently broken and degrades the playing environment. It is an I-win button for the team that has more of it. 

Please stop writing posts as if the issue was skill.

The effect of radar is only intensified in ranked. It is not materially different from random.  I agree with you that radar makes life very difficult for destroyers in Ranked. But as long as WG wants DD's dead there is little we can do about it. Sometimes I do not understand why the developers put destroyers in the game....

Well, not spotting through islands would be a good nerf. Right now it makes the game indeed boring and static. 

Though in T10 Ranked most already play overcautious / afraid. 

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