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Jamesalot_ET

Expert Loader(John Doe)

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Does anyone who has played atleast 2k games(basically experienced player) even us expert loader. I know I stopped using it long ago its just not worth it as far as I can see. It seems like to much of a lose in dps to change shells rather then just shot what you have loaded and have it switch for the next volley.

Another thing if it really isn't worth it. does that Mean that John Doe(Steven Segal) is basically the worst special commander since he only gets Expert loaded and Expert marksman specialty. expert marksman being the only one worth while on him.

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I have it on him just because it's only 1 point & when I use him in the Missouri I will switch over to HE before radaring a cap to help take out the DDs in there. Other than that I just use AP all the time on US BBs even when shooting at DDs when they appear as even w/the skill it's more than likely they will disappear before reloading anyway.

For any other US ship type it is a total waste...kinda like Dunkirk's smoke for the Brit BB line...or the Vigilance skill for the upcoming KM line commanders...not that it wouldn't be useful...just not worth the 3 skill points it requires to use it...might be able to fit it in once you reach 19 points on the commander but not right away that's for sure.

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No, I'd rather use priority Target and preventative maintenance

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I have Doe on my Des Moines - its nice to have the option for a quick switch between AP/HE when I'm in a cap or island close brawl with DD's, Khabs, angled/broadside CA's/BB's.  I also use it when I'm spamming HE at BB's from range and a broadside CA comes into view.

I recall seeing a Flamu video where he showed the benefit of using John Doe on the Des Moines - but if you're happy with how you're doing already don't change anything lol!

As an aside, I find Yamamoto the weakest of the special captains.  I don't need fireworks when I get first blood (though the increase in consumables is nice) and (unfortunately) I don't get kraken frequently enough (or early enough in a game) to make "Second Wind" useful.

 

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So a nice red cruiser is making the turn and if you reload in 7.5 seconds you will have a perfect broadside for 6 or 7 citadels and an instant delete (which happens more than once a game). So you put John D'oh! (Doe) on your Montana and then on the Missouri then Alabama then Arizona then Texas and soon a couple more BBs not to mention he still works good on some of the premium US cruisers. This only works good if you fire full salvos. So yeah it's great.

 

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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I use it on some CAs, like New Orleans (whic hwill hopefully become Baltimore one day) and my Hindenburg.

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I know I don't quite have as many battles as I need to give my opinion weight, but I do have Doe with expert loader on my Mighty MO. Combined with the rate of fire buff, it drops the shell switch time down to about 6.5 seconds.

However, I really only find it useful in two situations.

The first is when I'm not spotted and trying to find and get closer to a target. It gives me more flexibility to take shots of opportunity against broadside CA and BB targets with AP, or DDs with HE. It also reduces the chance I'll be spotted and lit up with my pants down.

The only other time is when I'm using radar. If there is a different ship type spotted than what I expected, then the quick switch can be the difference between a dev strike and taking some damage.

Still if the skill was more expensive or the bonus not as good, I wouldn't take it. It's pretty useless in pretty much every other situation.

 

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4 minutes ago, Baskerville77 said:

I know I don't quite have as many battles as I need to give my opinion weight, but I do have Doe with expert loader on my Mighty MO. Combined with the rate of fire buff, it drops the shell switch time down to about 6.5 seconds.

However, I really only find it useful in two situations.

The first is when I'm not spotted and trying to find and get closer to a target. It gives me more flexibility to take shots of opportunity against broadside CA and BB targets with AP, or DDs with HE. It also reduces the chance I'll be spotted and lit up with my pants down.

The only other time is when I'm using radar. If there is a different ship type spotted than what I expected, then the quick switch can be the difference between a dev strike and taking some damage.

Still if the skill was more expensive or the bonus not as good, I wouldn't take it. It's pretty useless in pretty much every other situation.

I have never understood why the whole switching shells thing is great for BBs. In most matches where I play a BB, if there are lots of DDs in the game, will load up HE at first until they are no longer a threat then switch to AP. I fire whatever is in the breech, not even sure I have ever unloaded a loaded gun to switch ammo types. This skill seems far more useful in a cruiser where you are constantly switching between HE and AP.

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John Doe is my Montana, Alabama, Arizona, Missouri ... captain. I’d love to have 1/4 Ammo switch for any ship with reload longer than say 12 seconds.  Killing DDs is important. Setting fires is better than having an entire salvo bounce/shatter.  

Des Moines?  Why bother cuz reload is so fast. I know Flamu showed Steven Seagal in Des Moines some time ago; however, his most recent Des Moines build does not include Expert Loader  

I have Expert Loader on a couple of other ships like the New Orleans where the right ammo type is really important. I even put it on a Conqueror when I had an extra skill point left over. 

Edited by Landing_Skipper

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Gah would love this this skill on my Conqueror. -75% that is.

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I have it on my Cleveland. It can be useful at times and it's only 1 point.

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One of my capts has it spec'd. At the moment i havent been using any ships i think it would be a huge benefit on. This capt was left over from when i started.

I wouldnt consider it valuable on many bbs, i have better choices for the points on probably every dd, but some of the cruisers i could see it useful on.

That being said, i dont think there is anything i would use it on until 12 or so points.

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10 hours ago, Taylor3006 said:

I have never understood why the whole switching shells thing is great for BBs. In most matches where I play a BB, if there are lots of DDs in the game, will load up HE at first until they are no longer a threat then switch to AP. I fire whatever is in the breech, not even sure I have ever unloaded a loaded gun to switch ammo types. This skill seems far more useful in a cruiser where you are constantly switching between HE and AP.

Like I said, the un-upgraded skill is all but useless, and with the John Doe captain on my MO, I still only took it because it was one point, so I wouldn't call the skill great on battleships by any stretch. But there are situations where I don't want to fire AP at a red team BB, or even more rarely, a CA. Mostly when they are bow tanking or have just used their damage control.

And while firing what you have in the breech works most of the time, there are moments that I run into that firing whatever ammo I have loaded wouldn't get me great damage, and would get me spotted.

Still, like I have said, the captain bonuses only upgrade the skill from "never take" to "maybe if I have a point left over..."    

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12 hours ago, Jamesalot_ET said:

Does anyone who has played atleast 2k games(basically experienced player) even us expert loader. I know I stopped using it long ago its just not worth it as far as I can see. It seems like to much of a lose in dps to change shells rather then just shot what you have loaded and have it switch for the next volley.

It is a loss in DPS, assuming you're firing non-stop the entire match. (which, of course, you're not) Sometimes, a sweet citadel or two when the enemy gives you a fleeting window of opportunity, instead of a few HE hits on a ship already burning, or with a saturated area, is worth the loss of 1/2 a firing cycle worth of DPS. Especially at close range, where sinking a ship several seconds early can be the difference between clear sailing and eating a last-ditch enemy torp.

I use it on most of my cruisers. Where it comes in handy is when engaging a maneuvering cruiser. Say you're firing HE as he runs away. He starts to turn. You can keep HE loaded, and if his turn is in earnest, you can have AP ready to score cits by the time he gives you a broadside. Or, if his turn is a feint, stick with the HE.

Also nice if you have AP ready to shoot at a cruiser or broadside BB, and a DD pops up close by. Sure, you could just fire the AP you have loaded, but if you can load HE while waiting for the turrets to bear on the new target, why not?

Whether you take EL or PM is really just a matter of taste. I don't find myself losing important modules often, but I run into plenty of times when being able to change ammo quickly lets you take full advantage of a brief time during an enemy turn when you have a broadside target.

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On certain ships types its extremely useful..mostly CAs.

CA's that want to do well need to able to switch ammo types on short notice..esp when CA's are trying to kill other CA's...its pretty easy to citadel another CA when broadside..but with even a little angling you can get nothing but bounces. So if you can catch another CA in the middle of a turn and hammer it with AP..that can make  huge diff.

For BB's and DD's i dont imagine it makes a huge diff: BB AP works pretty well on everything, and DD's reloads are often short enough that it doesn't make a huge diff...and while some DD's have great AP it wont ever reach the level of the 203 mm's of the higher tier CA's, so not sure its a huge missed opportunity if they cant AP someone in the middle of a turn.

 

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i use it on my DM(i know) in clan wars for instant shell switch

but i have another captain for randoms and that one has neither expert loader/expert marksman

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the turret traverse bonus is more useful.  but yeah I use the expert loader skill too given the bonus.  and as has been said above, if someone wants to make a mistake right in front of you but you need to switch from HE to AP or vice-versa the big time reduction bonus is nice to have.   

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I have Doe on my Baltimore and have this skill. I find it useful on that ship if I decide I want to switch shells when I don’t have a shot at that moment but will have one have one in a few seconds. For example, a DD is spotted coming around an island and want to switch to HE.

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14 hours ago, Jamesalot_ET said:

Does anyone who has played atleast 2k games(basically experienced player) even us expert loader. I know I stopped using it long ago its just not worth it as far as I can see. It seems like to much of a lose in dps to change shells rather then just shot what you have loaded and have it switch for the next volley.

Another thing if it really isn't worth it. does that Mean that John Doe(Steven Segal) is basically the worst special commander since he only gets Expert loaded and Expert marksman specialty. expert marksman being the only one worth while on him.

I use it for this captain only, on a Battleship that brings down the reload to 8 seconds which does make it worth it in my opinion.

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I've got the skill picked for Doe as well, and he's currently sitting in New Mexico as my go-to premium battleship captain.  It's proven itself useful several times so far when the inevitable destroyer pops up out of nowhere, or if I'm facing bow on battleships.  I didn't pick that skill up until the 18th or 19th point though.  It's valuable, but not critical to my builds.  Some people would say to shoot what you have loaded for destroyers, but I can take the fast reload time to get a feel for what that captain's doing and plan for a better salvo.

I wouldn't pick up the skill for any other captain unless it's the boosted version though.

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Thank you all for the feed back.

21 hours ago, Baskerville77 said:

I know I don't quite have as many battles as I need to give my opinion weight, but I do have Doe with expert loader on my Mighty MO. Combined with the rate of fire buff, it drops the shell switch time down to about 6.5 seconds.

However, I really only find it useful in two situations.

The first is when I'm not spotted and trying to find and get closer to a target. It gives me more flexibility to take shots of opportunity against broadside CA and BB targets with AP, or DDs with HE. It also reduces the chance I'll be spotted and lit up with my pants down.

The only other time is when I'm using radar. If there is a different ship type spotted than what I expected, then the quick switch can be the difference between a dev strike and taking some damage.

Still if the skill was more expensive or the bonus not as good, I wouldn't take it. It's pretty useless in pretty much every other situation.

 

thx for that feed back Baskerville. and in reality you didn't need 2k games to reply. It was more about getting some feed back from players with experience. Not everyone takes a crapload of games to catch on to game mechanics.

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EL is horrible because it doesn't fit into standard 19 pt BB/CA builds.

  1. PM
  2. EM/AR
  3. BoS/Super
  4. FP/CE
Edited by awildseaking

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Well, for BBs, EL is useless as firing HE at a DD is no more effective than firing AP these days. So you don't really need to switch for them. When firing at CAs, BB AP is always the right choice (except in fringe cases). And when firing against other BBs, you seldom need to switch quickly, as it should be VERY obvious if the opponent is going to bow-tank or flee, so you have plenty of time to swap ammo.

For DDs, it's just completely useless, as the swap time is already microscopic.

For CAs, I really only think it's worth-while on the slow-loading ships - that is, the T7 & T8 cruisers right now (for the US).  By T9, you already have a pretty fast reload (under 9 seconds), so EL is marginal in benefit, and the T10 doesn't need it at all.  Cruisers DO need to swap ammo frequently to get the best effect, so EL really beneficial there.  But again, I'd really only say it's useful for the long-reload ships:  that is, cruisers with a 10 second or more reload time AND who are not long-range standoff cruisers.

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