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Belyy_Klyk

Getting Past Rank 10

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So I researched the Des Moines and I love it. I am playing it in ranked and currently have 24 ranked battles with a 29% win rate. That means 7 wins and 17 losses. That is insane to me. I know I am not the best player, but I am also nowhere near the worst. Yesterday I managed to stay at rank 10 with 3 stars for 5 battles in a row. My current ranked stats are: 61,200 average damage, 17% survival, and if you take out the premium from the crate yesterday, my average XP is probably around 1,300 a game. I know these stats are not great but how do I win more games? If you are interested in helping, I will put what my general gameplay is below.

Spoiler

To start out, I look and see what my team does. I see if they are pushing the neutral flag or are going to give it up in hopes of capping the 2 non neutral flags. I look for an island I can fire over or take cover behind. If there isn't an island to fire over I post up ready to hide myself from the main enemy and only engage the enemy dd's that go in the flag. If I see the cap contested or the other team capping, I wait a few seconds and radar. I always focus the dd's and usually end up with around 10k+ spotting. I usually am alive until the final minutes of the game and I think I have been the victim of a devstrike 1 time. In general I try to play support and keep myself healthy while still doing damage and constantly firing. 

I don't want to say it is all teammates because I know I could improve, but yesterday we had Midway who gave 70 planes to the red Des Moines and at the end of the game asked "what is the Des aa range and how long does the defensive fire last?" I also ran into a troll in a Yamato that I reported. When on my team he would sail for A1 or whichever corner was closest until our entire team was dead then it was him vs CL's and BB's he would as he put it "save his star." When he was on the other team he would push in like most people would. I really don't get to play during the day and I am usually limited to 11pm-1am east coast so it tends to be the same players a lot. Any suggestions on how to handle teammates that don't want to participate?

 

If you read and feel like helping in any way, thank you and good luck.

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DM is a higher skill ship than Hinden and some of the others.  It gets deleted very easy.

You also have pretty much no games in the ship (1 random)

That above is your issue.  Don't Expect to move up much in a DM without knowing it well and how to survive in it / make it work.

 

In short.. you got a ship that isn't easy to play for alot of people.. and are taking it into Ranked to Learn how to play.

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My biggest concern is why your survival is so low, I mean that kind of goes with the losing, but to me that seems like you are putting yourself into, or not reading dangerous situations careful. DM is a great ship (I don't own it), but it is a high priority target. If there isn't a DD near me I am always gunning for a DM while playing my Hindy.

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34 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

I don't want to say it is all teammates because I know I could improve, but yesterday we had Midway who gave 70 planes to the red Des Moines and at the end of the game asked "what is the Des aa range and how long does the defensive fire last?" I also ran into a troll in a Yamato that I reported. When on my team he would sail for A1 or whichever corner was closest until our entire team was dead then it was him vs CL's and BB's he would as he put it "save his star." When he was on the other team he would push in like most people would. I really don't get to play during the day and I am usually limited to 11pm-1am east coast so it tends to be the same players a lot. Any suggestions on how to handle teammates that don't want to participate?

Honestly, if I caught a player saying that in chat and proceeded to do it, I'd submit a support ticket on him with both a screen shot and a replay, for unsportsmanlike play.  THAT is how I'd deal with such a player.  But how I wish I could deal with such a player would be to sink him so that he couldn't save his star.  I wouldn't do it, but I'd wish I could.  That kind of attitude deserves to lose his star.

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4 minutes ago, Kevs02Accord said:

My biggest concern is why your survival is so low, I mean that kind of goes with the losing, but to me that seems like you are putting yourself into, or not reading dangerous situations careful. DM is a great ship (I don't own it), but it is a high priority target. If there isn't a DD near me I am always gunning for a DM while playing my Hindy.

Kev, I think that it's just a fact of life for a DM in a lot of ranked battles.  If you're going to use your radar at all, you're going to be rather close to the front.  And unless you're going to literally hide behind an island and not shoot (i.e. abusing the game physics of radar through island that they won't change), you're probably going to have to expose yourself somewhat.  And then you become a high priority target.

I think that a good question here might be what's the survival rate for DM's in ranked overall.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Kev, I think that it's just a fact of life for a DM in a lot of ranked battles.  If you're going to use your radar at all, you're going to be rather close to the front.  And unless you're going to literally hide behind an island and not shoot (i.e. abusing the game physics of radar through island that they won't change), you're probably going to have to expose yourself somewhat.  And then you become a high priority target.

I think that a good question here might be what's the survival rate for DM's in ranked overall.

 

 

 

Excellent point and question.

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45 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

we had Midway who gave 70 planes to the red Des Moines and at the end of the game asked "what is the Des aa range and how long does the defensive fire last?"

And for some reason I can't seem to get motivated to play much at all this season. :cap_hmm:

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You hide behind islands to shoot over, but you are also supportive? How is that supportive?

When I play my DM in Ranked I am usually part of the main force and position myself next to an island, but so that I am able to cover my DD.

 I make use of my radar to kill a ship myself, which is quite easily with the DPM it has and duration of the radar. 

 

You don’t see me sitting behind an island to scout, or to fire over, you see me pushing aggresively to what is mine. Almost always when I use my radar a reddie dies. Positioning is key.

edit: I forgot to add that after taking the cap I hold the cap. Try taking away a cap with a DM in it behind an island. You ll need plenty help to get rid of it.

Edited by LemonadeWarrior

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23 minutes ago, Spyde said:

DM is a higher skill ship than Hinden and some of the others.  It gets deleted very easy.

You also have pretty much no games in the ship (1 random)

That above is your issue.  Don't Expect to move up much in a DM without knowing it well and how to survive in it / make it work.

 

In short.. you got a ship that isn't easy to play for alot of people.. and are taking it into Ranked to Learn how to play.

Yes, I realize I have only 1 battle in randoms which is because I unlocked it to play in ranked. If you look at my ranked stats, the only thing I see that stands out as below average is the win rate (which leads to survival rate). I don't know if I have survived in a single loss which kind of goes without saying. I wish there was a way to see time survived because it has been almost the entire match. I don't rush out and die. Most games I end up using all radars before I am destroyed. I mean 60k average damage in the current ranked meta where there are 3-4 DD's per match comes from focusing them first. I understand the stat quote but I don't think my problem is surviving and making it work. I am just looking for suggestions to improve.

22 minutes ago, Kevs02Accord said:

My biggest concern is why your survival is so low, I mean that kind of goes with the losing, but to me that seems like you are putting yourself into, or not reading dangerous situations careful. DM is a great ship (I don't own it), but it is a high priority target. If there isn't a DD near me I am always gunning for a DM while playing my Hindy.

See the above statement. In losses I am usually the 4th or 5th ship destroyed. Most games I have played end up with one DD cruising around and one BB on the backline as the last ships alive. I make sure to be behind cover so that if I can't fire from full cover, only the ship I am firing at can fire back. I never broadside any ship (unless it is end of the game and I have no choice because they are all around). Cruisers don't really worry me much. Head to head the DM seems to be able to take them. It is the BB mainly. It seems like the other team's BB's always push up and I don't have much choice. I always make sure to go with the team and pick a relatively safe position.

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7 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

You hide behind islands to shoot over, but you are also supportive? How is that supportive?

When I play my DM in Ranked I am usually part of the main force and position myself next to an island, but so that I am able to cover my DD.

 I make use of my radar to kill a ship myself, which is quite easily with the DPM it has and duration of the radar. 

 

You don’t see me sitting behind an island to scout, or to fire over, you see me pushing aggresively to what is mine. Almost always when I use my radar a reddie dies. Positioning is key.

edit: I forgot to add that after taking the cap I hold the cap. Try taking away a cap with a DM in it behind an island. You ll need plenty help to get rid of it.

I worded it poorly. An island that you can take cover from the main force (BB's and CL/CA) while engaging the DD's pushing caps. I focus on DD's and that is where my damage comes from. If I had  better PC I would post some replays. 

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1 minute ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

I worded it poorly. An island that you can take cover from the main force (BB's and CL/CA) while engaging the DD's pushing caps. I focus on DD's and that is where my damage comes from. If I had  better PC I would post some replays. 

I think there is a sight you can post the replay file to, they aren't vert big.

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It's hard to tell from the basic stats. It's harder still because (if we're being honest), the fact that you don't have a lot of high-tier experience might mean that what you judge to be a "relatively safe" position is actually an overly passive one for T10.

Do you have a replay? That would help us get a better sense for exactly how things are playing out, and give better suggestions.

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To OP.  It really helps if you're running a 19 point captain (or close thereto), have a CE build, are fully flagged, all Premium consumables, and are running hydro and radar with SRM1.  Individually all those things might not be a big deal....but collectively...they give just the edge you need to swing the close games to your favor. 

Not to mention giving tactical flexibility...CE is critical as quite often if you become spotted....the spotter is in radar range.  Spotted?  Pop radar...and watch a good team focus down the DD.  All the better if you can keep 'em lighted for almost a minute!!!!

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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do not judge your self in rank if you start late in battles. sometimes you get stuck down below by really poor teams or players. I am by no means a excellent player but i went through ranks 22 to 15 in 12 battles, 10 wins. I stopped because i got my flag. But i have notice the last time around I started late and had a very rough time getting to even 15, it was like 34 battles.

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5 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

It's hard to tell from the basic stats. It's harder still because (if we're being honest), the fact that you don't have a lot of high-tier experience might mean that what you judge to be a "relatively safe" position is actually an overly passive one for T10.

Do you have a replay? That would help us get a better sense for exactly how things are playing out, and give better suggestions.

Unfortunately my PC isn't the best and if I try to record my fps drops to the 20 range. I will say that whichever cap our team decides on, I am close enough to radar the entire cap and am able to severely hurt any DD's that push it. It just seems like I can do consistent damage and keep DD's out of the cap but eventually they just push together and overrun while our team is kind of doing what they please. Maybe I am just frustrated with the guys I was running into last night. Seemed like every game was the same group. 

Just now, Soshi_Sone said:

To OP.  It really helps if you're running a 19 point captain (or close thereto), have a CE build, are fully flagged, and are running hydro and radar with SRM1.  Individually all those things might not be a big deal....but collectively...they give just the edge you need to swing the close games to your favor. 

Not to mention giving tactical flexibility...CE is critical as quite often if you become spotted....the spotter is in radar range.  Spotted?  Pop radar...and watch a good team focus down the DD.  All the better if you can keep 'em lighted for almost a minute!!!!

I have an 18 point captain PT, AR, SI, BFT, AFT, CE and when I get 19 it'll go into EM probably. Fully flagged, have not been able to get the radar module. I run Defensive Fire because most of my games have CV's. I really don't have any issue with DD's or going against 1 or 2 cruisers while holding a flag. The problem is mainly (and I know this is going to sound like whining and I guess I honestly am) BB's that do not support. It gets to a point where I really am stuck holding a flag with a DD and I really can't just turn and run in a DM plus I do not want to give up the flag. Meanwhile a BB will go stealth and sneak off leaving me and the DD to deal with whatever is there. It is like our team caps 2 points and holds them for a few minutes then just says screw it and runs off.

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15 minutes ago, Kevs02Accord said:

I think there is a sight you can post the replay file to, they aren't vert big.

I will look into that and see if I can grab a game tonight. I thought the in game replay hogged resources but then again I have been running the same PC since game was in beta.

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It took a lot many games for me in randoms to understand how the DM really works. Map awareness, patience and making sure you have some support behind you so that you don't get pushed hard are the key factors. Not that I have mastered this ship but I enjoy playing it a lot more than any other cruisers.

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The DM is a ship that gets stronger the longer the game goes on and HP dwindles on enemy ships.

With their being few CVs, I recommend switching out Defensive Fire for Sonar to help catch DDs and avoid torpedo strikes from DWT.

Because of the abundance of BBs, you should be using the range increase module on your main battery, especially when your squishiness factors so heavily against you.

With these tools you'll be better able to harrass the enemy BBs while remaining afloat longer and even helping allies avoid torpedo spam. Eventually you'll be able to get closer to cover as your fleet moves around and catch DDs with their pants down.

A protip is to work on lighting fires on all the BBs after you force them to use DCP. This will lead to constant damage on them for the duration of all the fires lit until DCP gets off cooldown.

Non-USN BBs are the easiest to do this against since their DCP protection time is a lot lower, so I generally start with them, given two equally viable targets, then crack the USN BBs.

This is often seen as damage farming, but it is actually a great asset to the team as you setup flooding damage on those BBs from your DD, and may be Cruiser torpedoes.

Target priority goes:

DDs inside 12km

Cruisers inside 15km

BBs

You can fire at DDs and Cruisers beyond the listed ranges but if they evade you'll end up missing so much it's better to switch to a reliable target.

Doing so not only will boost your damage, and pressure the enemy, but it will win you more games as well.

Some other great tips are to be incredibly aware of when a CAP is open safely for you to capture. With Radar and Sonar you can chase away lurking DDs safely, and it is often a crucially overlooked part of map awareness.

If one of your own CAPs starts to be taken by a BB, fire shots in his direction, or focus him if you can. You'll reset their capture points for that ship and earn LOTS of XP.

If you're being engaged at all by a BB, hold fire if you'll end up concealed, wait for them to fire on another target, then bring the steel fire and rain. You'll frustrate the crap out of them.

Don't be afraid to use DCP on fires if you suddenly find yourself unspotted and safe for a bit. Don't waste precious HP that must be repaired later if you don't have to.

You can't bounce BB shells bow on at Tier 10, so don't try.

Defeating DDs is vital, but careful not to let your eagerness and 10km range get you in trouble. Using Hydro to simply spot the torpedoes and completely blunt the enemy DDs is huge.

If you're spotted and can't spot the enemy, you're probably being targetted by a DD. If he is targetting you it is likely the sheep trying to kill the wolf. Wait a few moments, then pop hydro. You'll usually be rewarded with spotted torpedoes at a safe distance within it's duration the majority of times. If a Cruiser like Zao or the French T10 give you a broadside at 10km, you can use the same trick.

Never be afraid to pull out of battle to burn two full repairs if RNGesus hates you but also saves you. You can't DPS dead.

 

Good luck!

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

I think that a good question here might be what's the survival rate for DM's in ranked overall.

Without even bothering to look I would bet it is lower than other CAs at her tier; she is a bit of a glass cannon.

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3 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Without even bothering to look I would bet it is lower than other CAs at her tier; she is a bit of a glass cannon.

She's also a glass cannon that has to be fairly close to the front to make use of her radar, plus she doesn't have the excellent concealment of the Minotaur, which in theory could pop radar and hold fire and radar-spot a cap from concealment.

 

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You don't have to record your play to create a replay.  You just have to enable replays and the game saves the file of actions.  Has no real impact on your FPS and the files are very small.  When someone plays back a replay, it opens WOWS and reconstructs the battle.  There are instructions for enabling replays. (I use the replay maod in Aslain's modpack.)

https://na.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wows/articles/128/

Edited by ExploratorOne

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2 hours ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

I run Defensive Fire because most of my games have CV's. 

?? In Ranked?? 

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1 hour ago, Soshi_Sone said:

?? In Ranked?? 

Yeah. Last night I had about 6 or 7 matches in a row with them.

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8 hours ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

So I researched the Des Moines and I love it. I am playing it in ranked and currently have 24 ranked battles with a 29% win rate. That means 7 wins and 17 losses. That is insane to me. I know I am not the best player, but I am also nowhere near the worst. Yesterday I managed to stay at rank 10 with 3 stars for 5 battles in a row. My current ranked stats are: 61,200 average damage, 17% survival, and if you take out the premium from the crate yesterday, my average XP is probably around 1,300 a game. I know these stats are not great but how do I win more games? If you are interested in helping, I will put what my general gameplay is below.

  Reveal hidden contents

To start out, I look and see what my team does. I see if they are pushing the neutral flag or are going to give it up in hopes of capping the 2 non neutral flags. I look for an island I can fire over or take cover behind. If there isn't an island to fire over I post up ready to hide myself from the main enemy and only engage the enemy dd's that go in the flag. If I see the cap contested or the other team capping, I wait a few seconds and radar. I always focus the dd's and usually end up with around 10k+ spotting. I usually am alive until the final minutes of the game and I think I have been the victim of a devstrike 1 time. In general I try to play support and keep myself healthy while still doing damage and constantly firing. 

I don't want to say it is all teammates because I know I could improve, but yesterday we had Midway who gave 70 planes to the red Des Moines and at the end of the game asked "what is the Des aa range and how long does the defensive fire last?" I also ran into a troll in a Yamato that I reported. When on my team he would sail for A1 or whichever corner was closest until our entire team was dead then it was him vs CL's and BB's he would as he put it "save his star." When he was on the other team he would push in like most people would. I really don't get to play during the day and I am usually limited to 11pm-1am east coast so it tends to be the same players a lot. Any suggestions on how to handle teammates that don't want to participate?

 

If you read and feel like helping in any way, thank you and good luck.

You can directly thank the change of irrevocable rank from 12 to 10. Now any schmuck that lucks their way in to rank 10 stays there forever.......meaning, that a rank 10 with 0 stars has ZERO incentive to help the team or do anything useful because there is ZERO risk of them bumping back to the next lower ship and league bracket. So, for example, you are a rank 6 and have 6 rank 10's on your team,...odds are fairly low you will win because almost none of them cares if it is a win or a loss, or has any motivation to play smart or learn to cooperate to win.

Thank the irrevokable change.....left a crapload of scrubs in the rank 10-6,.....ie. the old rank 12-11. Used to be you only had to deal with it for 2 ranks,....now you get to deal with it for 5.

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15 hours ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

Yeah. Last night I had about 6 or 7 matches in a row with them.

Wow.  I've got 25 games in sub 10 play and I remember only one game with a CV.  Hell, I even respect'd my AA module for the secondary module to help with the DDs.

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