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Ranked score almost entirely damage based?

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Been Rank 10 and 9 for about 5 days now...  pure dd player.

I have noticed that the people keeping their stars are mostly Hindenburgs and BB's...  I will get 3 or even 4 caps, and still find myself middle of the pack score wise.  Is the score comprised almost entirely of damage dealt?  If so, that is horrible for the dd community, especially when you're playing the objectives...

Edited by Torpin
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yes, yes, and yes

hope WG fix it before next ranked season

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10 minutes ago, Torpin said:

Been Rank 10 and 9 for about 5 days now...  pure dd player.

I have noticed that the people keeping their stars are mostly Hindenburgs and BB's...  I will get 3 or even 4 caps, and still find myself middle of the pack score wise.  Is the score comprised almost entirely of damage dealt?  If so, that is horrible for the dd community, especially when your playing the objectives...

You'll  have to switch to the Gearing for damage farming.

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25 minutes ago, Torpin said:

Been Rank 10 and 9 for about 5 days now...  pure dd player.

I have noticed that the people keeping their stars are mostly Hindenburgs and BB's...  I will get 3 or even 4 caps, and still find myself middle of the pack score wise.  Is the score comprised almost entirely of damage dealt?  If so, that is horrible for the dd community, especially when your playing the objectives...

Notser spoke about it in his latest video. Play damage farming ships to try to keep the star, and if your team is good they will carry you with a star. He is 100% spot on with this tactic (no one spoke about this) and I have seen many big names doing this. Sit behind farm as much damage as one can and move in only if they see the team playing according to their clan battle experiences which would be a sure win, if not save the star :D

PS- I am not blaming anyone or saying they are wrong. Its perfectly fine as its just a bunch of randoms put together and you dont stand to gain or lose like a team. Why should they be penalized for mistake made by someone else who is playing just for 'fun?

Edited by sansfaille
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Yes I have seen too many damage farming potatoes refuse to move closer than 15km in cost us games. Of course they farm enough damage to keep their star but the rest of who actually play for the win loose. I think I missed out on the good teams when I decided to only play a few games a day. I sailed straight to rank 11 with good team play only to slowly fall back to 13 with horrible selfish damage farming team play (not so curiously they seem to all be rank 15). I can normally make up for 1 potato but I am not good enough to make up for 2 or 3 of them.

I am tired of holding objectives in my NC while my friendly Bismarck's and Tirpitz's run out to 20km, hide behind rocks, try to snipe, and let me get focused to the bottom.  If I jump back in I might try my Mogami and focus on killing red DDs instead. I don't have a T8 DD and the offerings in the store right now, Asashio and Harekaze, don't interest me.

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EXP is based mainly on damage. With the coefficients in place and the 7v7 meta, HE cruisers are the most reliable way to "save a star", especially if you can get a few big AP or torpedo volleys after the game is lost (think Hipper or Hindenburg YOLO vs a BB). 

If you are skilled you will win more over time using proper gameplay, but if you are near your skill ceiling you might be tempted to try and farm. It might get you a little further, but not much. 

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55 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

If you are skilled you will win more over time using proper gameplay, but if you are near your skill ceiling you might be tempted to try and farm. It might get you a little further, but not much.

Actually the no-star-loss bonus is huge. Suppose you have uniform odds of getting 1st. If there are only 7 players and you lose half your matches, the no-star-loss gives you a 7% edge. That is enormous. Most players are not close to 57% WR, so it is completely rational to only play for the no-star-loss. I’d go so far as to say it’s the “correct” strategy for most players, given the rule set WG has created. And since the DD’s have very little chance of out-damaging a CA or BB, your edge is even higher when playing for damage instead of the win.

This analysis is admittedly oversimplified, because playing for damage reduces your WR, but my real point is that the no-star-loss effect is quite large indeed.

P.S. It’s also very clear to me that if WG does have any actual statisticians on staff, they are working on doubloon sales not gameplay. 

Edited by n00bot

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20 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Actually it’s huge. Suppose you have uniform odds of getting 1st. If there are only 7 players and you lose half your matches, the no-star-loss gives you a 7% edge. That is enormous. Most players are not close to 57% WR, so it is completely rational to only play for the no-star-loss. I’d go so far as to say it’s the “correct” strategy for most players, given the rule set WG has created. And since the DD’s have very little chance of out-damaging a CA or BB, your edge is even higher when playing for damage instead of the win.

This analysis is admittedly  oversimplified, because playing for damage reduces your WR, but my real point is that the no-star-loss effect is quite large indeed.

P.S. It’s also very clear to me that if WG does have any actual statisticians on staff, they are working on doubloon sales not gameplay. 

An alpha strike with torpedoes on a BB's and CA's can earn you a lot of damage, but it's a high risk/high return venture.  It also depends on which ship you are taking damage out of. A HP taken out of dd's are worth more than a CA or BB. So are kills. 

The problem also with that sort of strategy, your tm implicitly saying they will lose. So there is no incentive to play as a tm. What you have now is the definition of crab mentality. I have noted in the T10 area that most want someone else to carry to victory and are not prepared to carry when the time comes. 

 DD's are crucial to winning the game. DD's are the eyes of the force and instrumental in capping. A good DD player will carry a tm to victory. So if your a DD player, be prepared to carry. It sucks, but if you want victory, you have to be prepared.

Edited by Bill_Halsey

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Noob nailed it. Think we faught on this hill elsewhere... probrably ended up saying the same thing in different ways. Lol.

damage farming will help your individual ranking but its no way to win matches. To win matches you gotta out score the reds. This is done with caps and kills. Yes, we all know this. Still, seems this new angle of farming to keep a Star is just a cowards way to fork yourself less in a loss than you fork over the rest of the team. It also seems to set up a loss because without pushing and committing the rest of the team is soaking more damage and taking more chances than they might otherwise.

Edited by thebigblue
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Playing my Zao, I'd say I keep the star on about 50% of losses or more...   Zao is kinda dmg farming machine though and I hunt enemy DDs first.

 

I dont play to keep a star, it just happens very often in Zao.

Edited by beliy_demon

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I agree with your observations after reaching rank 10.  Before that, with tier 8 ships, DD's tended to be the ones keeping their stars on a loss, with mediocre damage and capping.  At tier 10 that isn't enough.  I was running my DD almost exclusively through to rank 10.  Then after that tried a few games in my Z-52, but noticed the meta was running very similar to clan battles.  So I switched to my Hindy, which was my go to ship for CB.  I've been racking up well over 100k in damage most games.  It's hard to overcome that in a DD with just capping.  You'll have to get quite a few torp hits as well going forward.  High dpm cruisers are just a more consistent way to go.  Torps are just too hit or miss.

FYI - I do still push caps and such.  I don't hang back unless it's necessary.  Had a few teams this weekend who were all on the same page and worked it pretty much like my clan would have, and we just wrecked the other team.  It was very satisfying being on those teams.

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I have been able to save my star a couple of times in my DD.

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7 minutes ago, Nachoo31 said:

I have been able to save my star a couple of times in my DD.

Me too, a couple of times...

I was regularly top above T10 but in 10-5 it’s almost always a cruiser or BB who gets the 7%+ bonus.

Edited by n00bot

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If you're playing DD, you're playing for the win. Stay alive, keep the enemy ships spotted more than they spot yours, and your team will have a huge advantage.

They won't always leverage it, which is frustrating, but it's still probably the better option, at least for high ranks.

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Last season as a DD player I got two caps, sank 3 ships, got the High Caliber medal and did 98k+ damage. Lost my star to a camping BB because he got 6 more exp than I did. Rank is a terrible game mode that rewards selfish play. If WG didn't reward rare ships Rank would be deader than Team Battles. Even the "special mod" and a bit of gold isn't enough to keep people playing. Long have players asked for "less Grindy Rank" or "a system the rewards good players and not the bad players" but sadly nothing has been done. The Save a Star feature was just an infected bandage on cancerous tumor.  

I like playing DDs in Rank but to often I'm the one getting screwed for playing forward of the team while contesting caps. One more Rank 1 finish and I can stop playing this stupid game mode. 

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3 hours ago, sansfaille said:

Notser spoke about it in his latest video. Play damage farming ships to try to keep the star, and if your team is good they will carry you with a star. He is 100% spot on with this tactic (no one spoke about this) and I have seen many big names doing this. Sit behind farm as much damage as one can and move in only if they see the team playing according to their clan battle experiences which would be a sure win, if not save the star :D

PS- I am not blaming anyone or saying they are wrong. Its perfectly fine as its just a bunch of randoms put together and you dont stand to gain or lose like a team. Why should they be penalized for mistake made by someone else who is playing just for 'fun?

Shame on Notser for promoting this kind of game play. However, after seeing him in battle a few times I’m not surprised at the selfish tactics. 

Damage farming does not win battles. Killing reds and controlling caps does. 

BTW doing 50% damage to a DD gives you just as much XP as doing 50% damage to a BB. So the next time you have a choice between shooting that BB 20 km away and the DD in a cap shoot the damned DD, regardless of what ship you’re playing. 

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1 hour ago, Nachoo31 said:

I have been able to save my star a couple of times in my DD.

In tier 8 ranked battles, I'm usually able to save my star in losses seemingly about half the time. The key is to contend for caps, kill enemy DDs trying to take the cap you're trying to take, keep spotting the enemy, torp enemy heavies when you can.  It's not hard at all to top your team in base XP in a loss when you're in a DD, if you're a good DD player.  Sadly, too many DD players aren't that good and die to easily.  (Not sure why I should say "sadly", since many of those weak DD players in tier 8 battles were my victims who helped me not lose stars many a time.)

I think that the best tier 8 DDs for ranked are USN gunboats, the Lo Yang, and the Akizuki.  The HSF Harekaze B hull isn't bad either, though its HP total is somewhat on the low side. 

The Kidd is a great DD for contending caps, killing enemy DDs, and spotting, but it stinks at engaging enemy heavies because a single torp launcher without a torp reload booster is just not enough to be a factor vs enemy heavies.  So you can do a great job at all the things you can do well (and end up at the no-star-lost top loser), but sometimes find yourself in a position where you just can't help your team win because you lack an alpha strike.

The Akizuki, OTOH, does have the torp reload booster, and as such, does have a credible and useful alpha strike.  Not to mention it can outright murder pretty much any other tier 8 DD it encounters 1v1.  I will say though, if you're not used to playing the Akizuki, and don't have a properly skilled captain, you may not want to try it in ranked because you might not have the success you think you should.  It's not the fastest nor most nimble of DDs.  So it takes some experience to get used to those limitations.  But once you get a handle in her, the Aki's a beast in tier 8 ranked.

 

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17 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

BTW doing 50% damage to a DD gives you just as much XP as doing 50% damage to a BB. So the next time you have a choice between shooting that BB 20 km away and the DD in a cap shoot the damned DD, regardless of what ship you’re playing. 

If WG just showed damage as a % of ships instead of raw points, they could easily change the attitude and goals of many players.  People will brag about whatever they perceive to be a “score”

Imagine:

“Hey I did 528% damage!  That’s like a Kraken!”

Even then, 150% of fire damage to a British BB is not brag-worthy, yet it will get you that no-star-loss bonus. 

Edited by n00bot

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25 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

Shame on Notser for promoting this kind of game play. However, after seeing him in battle a few times I’m not surprised at the selfish tactics. 

 

I agree with this. Not conduct worthy of a CC.

that said, I did for one game try this selfish AF approach and it didnt work.

despite running for the whole game and conceding all the caps and getting 160k damage in a DM... there were 2 montanas and a conq doing exactly the same thing. And 2/3 of them managed far more damage from further away than I could. Two of them spawned, drive as far North as possible, then as far west as possible then ran down the west blue line until time ran out, just shooting at 20K and racking up the fire damage.

Thanks Notser, now ranked is even more garbage, thanks to your endorsment.

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10 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

Shame on Notser for promoting this kind of game play. However, after seeing him in battle a few times I’m not surprised at the selfish tactics. 

Damage farming does not win battles. Killing reds and controlling caps does. 

BTW doing 50% damage to a DD gives you just as much XP as doing 50% damage to a BB. So the next time you have a choice between shooting that BB 20 km away and the DD in a cap shoot the damned DD, regardless of what ship you’re playing. 

You don't know how many big clans with big players have been doing that. You know how many people just say it on your face to just chill out and play for 'fun'? For them yoloing ang 'trying' to torp is fun. If I could have done that I would have surely adopted that tactic but sadly I always try to go for a win trying to support my DDs (I am a cruiser player and could never succeed in my Moskva for that reason). 

If anyone is putting their efforts to rank out then everything is fair in them adopting every strategy to advance themselves from players who always try to stall the progress. I am sure I wont be ranking out because I know I have hit my skill wall and my bad play shouldn't stop some good players from advancing. I mostly come 2nd or 3rd places in lost matches and if not for those good players topping score boards they would be still struck with me.

Everything is fair in war. 

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3 minutes ago, Dareios said:

I agree with this. Not conduct worthy of a CC.

that said, I did for one game try this selfish AF approach and it didnt work.

despite running for the whole game and conceding all the caps and getting 160k damage in a DM... there were 2 montanas and a conq doing exactly the same thing. And 2/3 of them managed far more damage from further away than I could. Two of them spawned, drive as far North as possible, then as far west as possible then ran down the west blue line until time ran out, just shooting at 20K and racking up the fire damage.

Thanks Notser, now ranked is even more garbage, thanks to your endorsment.

Sorry but people cry wolf when they cant replicate success of others. If it had worked for you, you would have surely done. It doesn't work for me either so I try to win :)

 

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% dmg of hp.

Sadily thats a base for the game XP...

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29 minutes ago, Dareios said:

Two of them spawned, drive as far North as possible, then as far west as possible then ran down the west blue line until time ran out, just shooting at 20K and racking up the fire damage.

Thanks Notser, now ranked is even more garbage, thanks to your endorsment

Don’t blame Notser. Blame the way WG scores “ranked” mode. They enable... No, they encourage this behavior. 

Edited by n00bot
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All I'm trying to do is inform the community how systems are trending and what you can do to improve your success.  I'm not happy or condoning the design that Wargaming chose to implement, I'll have a really nice video critiquing all issues with the ranked season.

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It seems much more so than before.  I primarily play dd's in ranked.  This season seems to reward damage over spotting and cap control much more than other seasons.

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