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Wulfgarn

Notser: Tips For Ranked

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Tips, and strategies for Ranked battles.

Pretty much all of these make logical sense.

 

 

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The only thing I think he is wrong on is that BBs are along for the ride.    DDs take huge damage from BBs as they try and run away.   And I can tell you its a game changer.    To be I think DDs and BBs are the key and not so much CAs.  

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I see an interesting dynamic unfold.  Noster noted having difficulty "saving" a star on a loss, and switched from DD to CAs and it made life easier.  Easier to save a star with the CA.  He then notes that the DM and Mino are at the low end of saving stars because they have to be closer (to use radar) and contest the objective.

So....DDs have a difficult time  "saving" a star ...but are critical to the win.   CAs (other than DM or Mino) are good at saving stars.  This leads to what I've seen...many games where I am the only radar ship in the match...in a DM.  Sure, I can't save a star as easily as the other CAs.  But I don't have to save a star because I've won EVERY time I'm the only radar ship in the match.  So I love it that other players are not playing DM (or Mino) so they can bank on not losing a star.  That just gives me a greater chance of winning outright being the only radar CA in the game. 

Granted, it's not me doing XP.  I'm usually in the middle of the pack.   But when you are the only radar ship in the match, you don't need to shoot much.  Just light 'em' up and let everyone else shoot 'em up.  As Noster noted, once you go up 2 to 1, force the enemy to make the move.  It's very hard to take an objective without DDs, and it's very hard for DDs to do it when faced with radar.

There is some irony.  Since I started the drive that took me from 10 to 8 without a step backwards, I have lost only two games in my DM.  I topped out on both.  Win when you're the only radar ship in the match.  Top out when you're not.  Hmmmh.

Of course, I still have the 8 to 5 run.  I can't get too smug.  I'm still waiting for the proverbial set back.  But I'll be running this approach as long as it works.

 

  

 

 

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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Starts off by giving his opinion on saving a star. not winning. There's your problem with ranked mentality and structure in the first 30 seconds.

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I'm glad that he noted the difficulty of being top of the team in a DD at this point. I almost exclusively play DDs in the few seasons I have done ranked and it's mostly worked in terms of winning or at least being top of the team board and retaining a star. However, since getting to rank 10 I have never been top of the team board and it's made it difficult to maintain progress. I recall one match where the team won on points; I had solo capped 3 times and still ended up 2nd from bottom.

In losses I notice that it is usually either a Henri IV or a Hindenburg that finishes top of the team and thus saves a star.

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41 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

I see an interesting dynamic unfold.  Noster noted having difficulty "saving" a star on a loss, and switched from DD to CAs and it made life easier.  Easier to save a star with the CA.  He then notes that the DM and Mino are at the low end of saving stars because they have to be closer (to use radar) and contest the objective.

So....DDs have a difficult time  "saving" a star ...but are critical to the win.   CAs (other than DM or Mino) are good at saving stars.  This leads to what I've seen...many games where I am the only radar ship in the match...in a DM.  Sure, I can't save a star as easily as the other CAs.  But I don't have to save a star because I've won EVERY time I'm the only radar ship in the match.  So I love it that other players are not playing DM (or Mino) so they can bank on not losing a star.  That just gives me a greater chance of winning outright being the only radar CA in the game. 

Granted, it's not me doing XP.  I'm usually in the middle of the pack.   But when you are the only radar ship in the match, you don't need to shoot much.  Just light 'em' up and let everyone else shoot 'em up.  As Noster noted, once you go up 2 to 1, force the enemy to make the move.  It's very hard to take an objective without DDs, and it's very hard for DDs to do it when faced with radar.

There is some irony.  Since I started the drive that took me from 10 to 8 without a step backwards, I have lost only two games in my DM.  I topped out on both.  Win when you're the only radar ship in the match.  Top out when you're not.  Hmmmh.

Of course, I still have the 8 to 5 run.  I can't get too smug.  I'm still waiting for the proverbial set back.  But I'll be running this approach as long as it works.

 

  

 

 

Interesting that your experience is so different than mine.  I run either the Shima or the Zao and I see DMs for days and days.  Each match has either two or some times three (!) DMs.  The radar is crazy thick! 

That said, I’m not an anti-radar zealot.  I just have to adjust play style accordingly. 

Good luck!

Comp

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honestly.......early on you need to be a BB to carry the game

objective? spotting? area control? no, just no

kill every enemy and you win

teammates yolo too fast you cant stop anything with 2min reload torps, or with fire damage that takes forever to accumulate

you need those 30sec cooldown devastating strike salvos to kill enemy as fast as your teammates suicide

Edited by jason199506

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HE-Spam Cruisers (Hindenburg, Henri, Zao) are the best at getting inflated exp totals due to fire damage against the 3 or 4 BBs you usually see floating around. They don't contribute as much as it looks like, since most of their damage is healed back, applied over time and rarely focused on a single target. Utility Cruisers (DM, Moskva, Minotaur) are better at winning games due to their ability to radar, drop smoke, etc. and therefore contest capture points and swing the early-mid game DD battles. 

The DDs have trouble getting a lot of exp since their role is often passive - holding a cap, screening or otherwise exerting map control. They rarely get big torpedo volleys (since BBs are usually screened or too far back) and in knife-fights often act more as spotters for the cruisers to deal damage before they can accumulate any large numbers. 

BBs are hit or miss (literally) - if one deletes a couple cruisers or gets a big hit on another BB you end up with a lot of exp, but otherwise you are often there more to suppress movement and act as large-scale area denial, preventing cruisers from attacking your DDs and keeping enemy BBs angled and therefore mobility-limited. 

It is a rather annoying style of gameplay, especially with the lack of comms compared to normal CW play. 

Also, when a CV is in play the game is basically determined by their relative ability, especially if MM randomly gives only one team the Mino/DM with AA spec and the other gets a Zao and Moskva running hydro. 

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49 minutes ago, Dareios said:

Starts off by giving his opinion on saving a star. not winning. There's your problem with ranked mentality and structure in the first 30 seconds.

Playing to win and playing to get top XP are not at all mutually exclusive, in fact trying to do BOTH is how you rank out the quickest. 

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5 minutes ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Playing to win and playing to get top XP are not at all mutually exclusive, in fact trying to do BOTH is how you rank out the quickest. 

agree to disagree. they are chalk and cheese.

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First thing first, it is my first ranked season and I noticed that it is base on a totally unfair scoring system. It is base on domination game mod, however, scoring still base on dmg done and kill. As a DD player many games I put all my power to scout and cap but at the end a camper BB or Ca ending ranked 1st and do not lose any star. Also, matchmaking is a total disaster. I was 2 stars at rank 6 and ended up rank 9. In some games, I lost and maybe my team lost because of my faults. However, maybe 80% loses were because my rank 10 teammates who don't give a [edited] at all. If it goes this way, I guess I am not gone play them in next season since this season is very stressful for me. 

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3 minutes ago, Dareios said:

agree to disagree. they are chalk and cheese.

Then elaborate.

XP is gained by caps, damage, potential damage, spotting damage, defending caps. Damage vs DDs is the most valuable, scaling back as you get to BBs. To accumulate XP you need be,  you know, alive. A team behind in points but that still has ships always has a chance. 

 

By contrast the chucklefucks who get blapped early in bad or uninspired  plays/positions rarely contribute to a win,   but will surely contribute in game chat about   not being supported and "bad teams".

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7 minutes ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Then elaborate.

... To accumulate XP you need be,  you know, alive.

to try and win requires risks. such as shooting targets that are shooting back at you, or contesting zones likely to have other ships in it. Too many people would rather take ZERO risk of dying, than say a reaonable 70/30 risk of (winning play)/(dying trying).

Almost all of my many lost games have ended with a full/.75 health montana or zao on the far blue line, who has done next to nothing to assist in any zone or conflict but has sat safely away and now we are down 5 ships and 3 caps suddenly comes alive and starts farming damage. Guess who keeps the star (hint: its not the players who were trying). If it s not this guy, its the DD who parks behind the nearest island for 10 minutes, pretends to be a DC and then miraculously reconnects just in time to put 8 torps into a BB as last one standing.

Its this mentality, which I encounter 2/3 matches. either they do nothing period and ride the team carry for a star, or turn from afk to rambo when last one left and save their hide.

Dont try and white knight this attitude, in randoms you'd be the one slinging insults and reporting this playstyle.

 

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1 hour ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Playing to win and playing to get top XP are not at all mutually exclusive, in fact trying to do BOTH is how you rank out the quickest. 

Agreed.

Whenever i played ranked, doesn't matter if i brought a DD, CA/CL, or a BB, my one and only objective is to sink as many red team ships and dealt as much dmg as i possibly can, at the same time provide support to team mates and try my best to prevent them from being sunk.  I played ranked the same way i would play CW, usually that would have a more positive outcome than any other strategy.   I don't want to just retain the damn star on a loss, i want a win, i would get stalled and failed to progress if my only goal was to farm damage.     At one point i dropped from rank 7 all the way down to 10 due to losing streaks two nights in a row, i rejected the idea of defeat, and determined to turn it around, turn around i did, and climbed straight to rank 5. Sticking with the CW mentality has helped me progress, not without challenges, but it sure was rewarding.

Edited by Xcalib3r

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2 hours ago, Dareios said:

Starts off by giving his opinion on saving a star. not winning. There's your problem with ranked mentality and structure in the first 30 seconds.

did you watch the video?  Play ranked if you win cool if you dont oh well its a game. Play to win but if you start loosing too many games do not become angry - pet a dog or take a walk. playing ranked while angry leads to mistakes and one mistake in ranked can be a differencr of win or loose. But its a game chill out and have fun.  Life is more important anyway. But play your best and if you do all that you can you can save your star by having the most exp.  

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3 minutes ago, Swift_Scythe said:

if you do all that you can you can save your star by having the most exp.

It's not the case for dds, you know that right?

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I'm not happy with the XP design and just mentioned what I found out about my DDs after playing countless games where I'm trying my hardest to spot, capture, kill with very little XP to show for it.  By highlighting the issue I'm just letting players know they can contribute and have a higher chance of retaining a star while still trying your hardest to win the game.  I think there are very few players who aren't trying to win the game, they might be trying poorly but they aren't actively throwing in ranked that I've seen.

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1 hour ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Glad youre streaming again Notser, 

glad to be back :)

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4 minutes ago, Notser said:

glad to be back :)

You finally moved, or did something spectacular go down with your ISP?

It's possible I might've missed you mentioning it in a YT vid.

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Gulp, swallowing hard being in a conversation with you all.  My first time in Ranked this season so I am a Newbie to be sure.  Playing my beloved Benson, my Kagero, and that stone cold killer LoYang (C hulled Benson with Hydro).

Yes, like Notser said in the video playing dds is a feast or famine exercise.  You either win big or lose big.  It's been my experience that even the lost battles are far more fun than many Random battles are.  The battles can be epic, with 3 or less ships, low on HP, left to contest the win with one mistake making the difference.

Here is my plea as a dd player in Ranked.  Noster pointed this out in his video.  Radar cruisers push and they make themselves vulnerable but they also make your dd drivers life MUCH more complicated. If you want to help your dd drivers survive later into the match, kill the radar cruisers as soon as you spot them.  I can deal with the Hydro ships, it's the Radar ships that give me fits.

Wulfgarn has made an excellent graphic that I have taped just above my monitor.  Please share widely.

All ships in Ranked Season 9 with radar/hydro, and their ranges/durations

https://i.imgur.com/s2PWkly.png

JUst wanted to let you all know that I'm having a blast in Ranked play because I'm not worrying about stars.  I'm just appreciating the elevated level of play.

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16 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

You finally moved, or did something spectacular go down with your ISP?

It's possible I might've missed you mentioning it in a YT vid.

Wulfgarn, I was typing in my response, and you posted just ahead of me.  What are the odds???  Great minds, I guess.

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I play Zao.   Most of the losses I saved a star....   Not ashamed of it, I find Zao to be far more comfortable to play than say Shima or Gearing.

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49 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

You finally moved, or did something spectacular go down with your ISP?

It's possible I might've missed you mentioning it in a YT vid.

ISP finally fixed their crap

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