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coletrain_commander

Playing Epicenter as DD

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How does one play Epicenter maps? No matter what I try I get wrecked. Stick around the outside islands, people say "scout more", go into the middle and try and hold the center and get lit up by radar or hydro and killed. Today I saw 3 dds sailing around in the middle but don't know how they get away with that.

Edited by coletrain_commander

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It all depends on what your team does. Nobody knows what to do because Epicenter does not occur enough to get used to playing it. Epicenter is supposed to force the teams into a melee situation which really doesn't occur because the center points count too slow. Points should count by how many ships a team has in a given circle too. More ships in, more points in that teams point pool, but also with each ring increasing in importance.

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10 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

It all depends on what your team does. Nobody knows what to do because Epicenter does not occur enough to get used to playing it. Epicenter is supposed to force the teams into a melee situation which really doesn't occur because the center points count too slow. Points should count by how many ships a team has in a given circle too. More ships in, more points in that teams point pool, but also with each ring increasing in importance.

Cool, well as long as no one know what to do I'll hope to see as this map almost never and when I do I'll just do what I think I can

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Tears of the Cruiser ... err ... Desert has a pair of islands just inside the inner circle that allows DDs to camp beside or behind while still capping the inner circle. MInd you, you won't be spotting much in that time, but at least you can safely hold the cap while your team tries to figure out what to do.

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14 hours ago, coletrain_commander said:

How does one play Epicenter maps? No matter what I try I get wrecked. Stick around the outside islands, people say "scout more", go into the middle and try and hold the center and get lit up by radar or hydro and killed. Today I saw 3 dds sailing around in the middle but don't know how they get away with that.

They most likely know there spotting ranges.

I dislike Epicenter. As a DD, I like to scout out the sides and if possible, get to the red teams back side.

That tends to freak the way back BB's alot.

Hopefully my team shoots at the ships I spot also.

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1 hour ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Tears of the Cruiser ... err ... Desert has a pair of islands just inside the inner circle that allows DDs to camp beside or behind while still capping the inner circle. MInd you, you won't be spotting much in that time, but at least you can safely hold the cap while your team tries to figure out what to do.

Same thing on Trident.

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4 hours ago, coletrain_commander said:

Cool, well as long as no one know what to do I'll hope to see as this map almost never...

You have independently arrived at the same conclusion as lots of the player base.

I like Epicenter mode myself, but I don't play DD much at all, so I don't experience it as a DD captain.

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The best scenario for epicenter: CV match with 4 radar ships and a Z-52 on the red team. You just yolo to the center and get back to port. Easiest decision.

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18 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Tears of the Cruiser ... err ... Desert has a pair of islands just inside the inner circle that allows DDs to camp beside or behind while still capping the inner circle. MInd you, you won't be spotting much in that time, but at least you can safely hold the cap while your team tries to figure out what to do.

Safely allow their DD and hydro/radar to push up, and prevent you from doing any harm to the enemy in the meantime. Not spotting opens yourself up to all kinds of threats pushing up to you unseen. All it takes is a radar or hydro pushing up into range because they know where you have to be, and lighting you up for people to shoot at you from angles the island doesn't cover. Not spotting also means they get to kill or push back your immediate support for free since that makes it so much easier for their dd to come right up and spot your teammates.

In my opinion the main goal in playing the middle is to either spot less stealthy ships so your team can hammer them for free, bait people into lighting themselves up and dodging out, or bullying or killing things in as unfair an ambush as you can possibly manage. Playing the flanks is just the usual business with scouting/trying to torp things. You need some people doing both, and you need to not throw your ship away while the teams spar for advantage.

If your team keeps asking you to scout more, maybe you need to consider how much vision you've actually been providing and whether or not you're letting their DD go uncontested. No one likes pushing in blind.

Staying away from radar and hydro is just a matter of knowing what's present in the match and where they can come at you, which is something you should be learning how to do already if you have no idea how to do it. Have a general understanding of ability and relative concealment ranges, and pay attention to where your team is so you know if they're actually able to take advantage of spotting. Things don't magically get shot because you want them to, they need to have guns pointed at them to get shot.

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Oh I'm not arguing that spotting isn't important. In fact, I consider it critically important. But it's also important to rush into that middle cap asap and hold it if you can. And if your entire team is taking their sweet time supporting you, then you have to play safe until they actually do push up. Being out in the open in the middle cap when the whole rest of your team is 10km behind you picking their nose is the quickest way to die.

Personally, what I usually do is sit by that island, but not behind it. I can still spot, but if I get spotted and the entire team decides I'm their number one target, I can just back up and break line of sight. Again, until my team gets their a$$ in gear.

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Every epicenter map I've played on has several locations in the middle circle where there's island cover.

A DD on your team needs to occupy this spot ASAP, until the rest of the team deploys, then you can make up your mind as to where to go from there, based on how much of a potato team you have.

Basically, your job for the first 3 minutes is to just hold the center under cover.  It's boring, but practical.

From there, I find that smoking is the key ability, as that lets your bigger ships sneak into position to support a rush-kill of any opponent holding the center.

Frankly, unless you're a Russian DD, any other DD should be spending it's entire time inside a bare minimum of 1, and in most cases 2, circles.  It's a "duck and weave" map for DDs, not a spotting from-stealth map. 

Edited by EAnybody
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I like Epicentre, I just hate the way people try and play the map (like it's not epicentre).

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Enjoyment on epicenter is directly proportional to how competent your team is at shooting what you light.  If they're efficiently sniping enemy DDs when you light them, chances are you're going to do well (as a team) and not totally hate it.  If you're the one losing 1/3 of your health when you mutually light DDs you're gonna have a bad time, and you're probably gonna lose with half your team still alive 12km outside the farthest circle wondering how this could have happened.

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It really depends on the DD I'm sailing.

IJN stealth torper? 

I look for open water on the flanks, and pay no mind to the epicenter objective, at all - I just look for torp shots on broadside ships pushing in to the epicenter.  Word to the wise, as well - I've found DDs are far more likely to sit still in their smoke, in this mode.  If theres a smoke cloud in range, its never a bad idea to empty the tubes into it.

Smoking gunboat (US, PA)? 

I actually play the objective, in these boats - looking to kill any contesting red DDs as quickly as possible.  The team that loses all its DDs in this mode, is going to be fighting very much, an uphill battle.

KM DDs? 

It depends how the match is shaping up - but I'll  often play these in the objective, as well (sticking close with a friendly DD) - looking to use hydro offensively on red DDs sitting in smoke, as well as defensively in trying to spot incoming torps and keep my green DDs alive as long as possible - as I said, the team with the most DDs alive in the late stages of an EC match, is usually the winner.

VMF DDs?

On the flanks again - completely ignoring the objective - looking to get flanking fire, and tempt those slow turreted BBs to slew turrets around - or even better - make a 90 degree turn and open themselves up to broadside fire from any green BBs pushing in from the cap.

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How I play the match depends on what ship I'm currently driving. If it's a US or German boat with good guns, I spray the silver on my face and charge in WITNESS ME! If I'm in a IJN torpedo boat, I usually lurk just outside center circle and try to deny access to it with torpedo spreads.

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As others have mentioned, it's remarkably fluid.  How I approach the beginning of an Epicenter match is dictated by exactly what destroyer I'm in, what map/tier the battle is, what destroyers are on the opposing team, what radar/hydro ships the enemy team has, whether or not there are carriers present in the battle, how the rest of my team deploys in the early going, what (if any) constructive conversation is going on in team chat, and probably a dozen other factors which aren't immediately occurring to me.

In the most general terms, if I hold a spotting edge over the ships on the enemy team I'll want to stay in the middle zone as long as I possibly can.  If I'm in a gunboat and a stealthier teammate commits to the center, I want to be there backing him up (preferably from smoke).  If there are multiple enemy radars and/or a carrier in play, then I only want to be in the center cap so long as I have handy island cover to avoid eating focused fire when I'm spotted; once I have a handle on where said enemy ships are then I can get braver as conditions warrant.  Occupying the middle ring is far less important in a low tier battle (which will usually end with one team completely eliminated) vs. in a higher tier game (where points will often be the deciding factor), so if I draw Big Race Epicenter then I'm much more focused on eliminating enemy destroyers and getting into torpedo position on larger ships than I am with capturing/blocking the zones.  Again, this is all in general, and specific game conditions can & will change what I do in huge fashion.

It's really not all that different from a Domination match in the most important aspect: you should only be in that cap so long as you can do so without putting your ship at undue risk.  It is far better to fall back and concede the cap to the enemy rather than be sunk in a vain attempt to delay the inevitable.  You can push back in later in the battle, but only if your ship is still afloat.  One thing which does not change except in the most extreme conditions is that wherever I am on the map, I want to be close enough to the rings that I can quickly react to any opportunity to cap and/or eliminate a key enemy ship when it presents itself; looping around the map border is almost never the correct play.

 

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Trident is a lot easier than Tears of the Playerbase.  Less ships that can spot you and less places for your support to remove themselves from the battle.  

 

The only point is that you really don't have a choice except to contest, if you are a DD.  It's a roll of the dice but you have to accept the risk.

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Your tactics are dictated by two things,

1) the make up of their team (Radar Cruisers - stay out of range of their radar & DDs know which their and your spotting distances) and

2) how your team are deploying. Do you have fire support, do you have other DDs to assist spotting etc     If they are playing passive be more cautious, if they are actively pushing assist by playing more aggressively

You only go into the center when you know where the radar cruisers are and play very cautious until any DDs with better stealth than you are spotted. 

When you do go into the center circle position either hide behind an island (if there is one) or position yourself on the border closest to your team pointing outwards so you can accelerate away if spotted and focused. If you get flak over spotting tell them you need support to push and if they will push up you will spot.

Only commit to battle over the center if you have support otherwise retreat when challenged and come back later. When you do battle don't smoke up and sit there, use your smoke to disengage and decoy their torps while you head off on a tangent.

Always err on the side of caution as a dead DD can contribute nothing.

Lastly play to the strengths of your ship, be it a gun boat or a torp boat.

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On 5/7/2018 at 1:36 PM, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

like Epicenter mode myself, but I don't play DD much at all, so I don't experience it as a DD captain.

This is of course why you like it.  Let the DD’s suffer... Spot for me! Why aren’t you capping?! :Smile_sceptic:

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On 5/19/2018 at 4:42 PM, Harv72b said:

t's really not all that different from a Domination match in the most important aspect: you should only be in that cap so long as you can do so without putting your ship at undue risk.  It is far better to fall back and concede the cap to the enemy rather than be sunk in a vain attempt to delay the inevitable.

100%

Kills > caps, and once you realize that, epicenter isn’t that different from other modes.

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18 minutes ago, n00bot said:

This is of course why you like it.  Let the DD’s suffer... Spot for me! Why aren’t you capping?! :Smile_sceptic:

 

And it is mistaken generalizations like this that make you wrong. Don't presume to tell me why I like what I like.

What a presumptuous blowhard.

 

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7 minutes ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

And it is mistaken generalizations like this that make you wrong. Don't presume to tell me why I like what I like.

What a presumptuous blowhard.

I’m just saying that epicenter is a lot easier to like when you’re not the one who’s expected to be capping the center.

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The best way to play Epicenter with a DD is to flank around the sides, but this requires a cruiser to camp in the middle circle. The cruiser should, preferably, be behind an island it can shoot over.

So long as you secure the flank, the Cruiser hiding behind the island should not get spotted and can provide covering fire for you.

Preferably, the cruiser in the middle also has radar, which can light up silly DDs that try and enter the middle cap, but it's not necessary.

 

The key to epicenter as a DD is to not get tied down where you are useless.

and the middle is typically pointless for a DD, because there's going to be an island a cruiser can sit behind, while stopping center cap.

Edited by MrDeaf

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4 hours ago, n00bot said:

I’m just saying that epicenter is a lot easier to like when you’re not the one who’s expected to be capping the center.

I can agree with that. Be it known that I don't go around telling the DD drivers what to do. I only mentioned I like epicenter as my opinion seems fairly unique, it is almost universally DDespised, BBy players of every CLass. I CAn't recall anyone saying they like it CVery much.

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