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ROCKTEE

Torpedoes not launching just prior to being Killed.

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There was a change several installs prior where if you clicked to launch torps prior to being killed, or as the kill shot happened, the torps would be launched. The evening, for the second time in two days, this did not happen. It was not even close. Once was in ranked and at the very end where a BB at 3k would/should have been killed. Did 0.7.4.0 somehow remove this change?

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I've never heard of this before....

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Game has been particularly unstable this weekend more often than it usually is. I am wondering if Wargaming servers are getting overloaded by the numbers of players online or something. Because if I play early morning instead it runs much better.

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I have had this happen to me quite a lot for quite a while. That torp salvo that would have given you a devastating strike just as the enemy shells arrive? Doesn't launch. I used to wonder if it was the AI cheating to save its ships because I used to play nothing but co-op, but it happens in Randoms too. Evidently there is a decision time/action lag built in, and clicking the button just as you die doesn't make the cut.

Speaking of the AI trying to save its ships, I have noticed after a day's experience a distinct lack of swerving and avoiding when launching torpedoes from carrier aircraft. The bots either don't register them as they do ship torps or see no point in evading the unevadable.

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22 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Game has been particularly unstable this weekend more often than it usually is. ... [snip] ... Because if I play early morning instead it runs much better.

 

Same.

Oh, and yeah: same on the torpedo launch  thing. Mid-afternoon if I'm playing a DD and I get caught... I can spam the left-click all I want, but I'm not getting my tubes emptied before the kill registers.

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This has to do with your latency not WG. If you have high latency or even moderate latency, the game will register you as destroyed before you know it on your screen. It may be just a few miliseconds but the server pushes that info to you, and you have to push the fire torpedos to server. So if you know you will be destroyed there is a chance on a bang-bang play that you will not get them off.

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6 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

This has to do with your latency not WG. If you have high latency or even moderate latency, the game will register you as destroyed before you know it on your screen. It may be just a few miliseconds but the server pushes that info to you, and you have to push the fire torpedos to server. So if you know you will be destroyed there is a chance on a bang-bang play that you will not get them off.

^100% this.

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There is a tiny delay between when you click and when they launch. I don't think this is due to lag, because guns will fire the instant you click. I think it represents the realistic time it takes to launch these these weapons. If you were the unfortunate Z-52 I ganked this weekend because I got my torps off first, my sympathies.

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This is a bug that's been around for a long time. They've "fixed" it more than once. It happens to me and I have 35ms latency, so it's not a latency thing. (tho in some cases I'm sure it could be)

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There is a launch delay between pressing the button and the torps actually launching.

Also the torps launch staggered, not all at once, so it is possible to only get a partial launch off, I have had my ship destroyed and only 2 of the 4-5 torps in the tubes actually gets away.

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20 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

This has to do with your latency not WG. If you have high latency or even moderate latency, the game will register you as destroyed before you know it on your screen. It may be just a few miliseconds but the server pushes that info to you, and you have to push the fire torpedos to server. So if you know you will be destroyed there is a chance on a bang-bang play that you will not get them off.

 

Actually, no. I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

There's an order in which events register as having happened if they happen at the same time. I think the server has a priority in which it picks events to process first. My hypothesis is:

1. Hits happen first. 

2. Game ending events happen second. (i.e., scoreboard roll over, mercy rule, cap zone finishing.)

3. Kills.

4. Weapon launches.

 

If all of these events occur at the same time, I think the launch is going to be the lowest priority thing to happen. 

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fb0.jpg

dead ships can't fire anything

you probably have a bit of lag, so you don't know that you're already dead

makes perfect sense

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2 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

Actually, no. I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

There's an order in which events register as having happened if they happen at the same time. I think the server has a priority in which it picks events to process first. My hypothesis is:

1. Hits happen first. 

2. Game ending events happen second. (i.e., scoreboard roll over, mercy rule, cap zone finishing.)

3. Kills.

4. Weapon launches.

 

If all of these events occur at the same time, I think the launch is going to be the lowest priority thing to happen. 

You may be correct in a sense that if they happen at the same time they have an order. All computer systems have to have this. It’s simple logic order. That being said, we are talking miliseconds here so the chance that all of this happened “at the same time” is slim to none. Like I said you have to push your torp launch to server and the server has to push your death to you. The time between this is double whatever your latency is. If it happened at the same time, that means you launch your torps the second the other ships shells hit you. That would be some crazy timing and there is no way to test that so as far as your logic order goes, that is not verified. Most likely this is a simple case of someone launching torps but the server already recognizing him as destroyed.

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3 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

You may be correct in a sense that if they happen at the same time they have an order. All computer systems have to have this. It’s simple logic order. That being said, we are talking miliseconds here so the chance that all of this happened “at the same time” is slim to none. Like I said you have to push your torp launch to server and the server has to push your death to you. The time between this is double whatever your latency is. If it happened at the same time, that means you launch your torps the second the other ships shells hit you. That would be some crazy timing and there is no way to test that so as far as your logic order goes, that is not verified. Most likely this is a simple case of someone launching torps but the server already recognizing him as destroyed.

 

The reason that I'm fairly confident in both (a) the mechanic and (b) the sequence is that I've seen it happen.

I've personally experienced this stuff.

I've even got a replay online that's been cranked down in speed so you can watch how the game registers hits / scoreboard / kills. Replays don't show anything useful to watch for the torpedo delay, because you aren't tracking anything that's not visual. You can't see the command input. But you can see the rest of the things happen in sequence.

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Don't worry OP.

The bots in co-op games are able to launch their torpedoes AFTER they die to compensate for this error. :Smile_sceptic: 

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22 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

The reason that I'm fairly confident in both (a) the mechanic and (b) the sequence is that I've seen it happen.

I've personally experienced this stuff.

I've even got a replay online that's been cranked down in speed so you can watch how the game registers hits / scoreboard / kills. Replays don't show anything useful to watch for the torpedo delay, because you aren't tracking anything that's not visual. You can't see the command input. But you can see the rest of the things happen in sequence.

And you are looking at server side when you watch the replay. Which is what I am referring to. You don’t see the server decision on order because you don’t get to see the input from players. Server side means client sees things he does before and even if they never happen. 

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1 hour ago, ROCKTEE said:

There was a change several installs prior where if you clicked to launch torps prior to being killed, or as the kill shot happened, the torps would be launched. The evening, for the second time in two days, this did not happen. It was not even close. Once was in ranked and at the very end where a BB at 3k would/should have been killed. Did 0.7.4.0 somehow remove this change?

What a number of players have stated above about the lag between the server and the client is true; you can die and because of lag not know it for a split second, during which time you try to launch torps. If the game is especially busy this lag can get worse. WoW has tried to fix this in recent patches, but something you should know about WoW is that they constantly lose things in updates that they have "fixed" with earlier ones. A good example of that was the original matchmaking fix which was supposed to put an equal number of the same ships on different teams if there were more than one. So if there were 4 Clevelands in a match, each side was supposed to have 2. That worked for about 2 or 3 updates and, then ... POOF! it was gone. WoW does stuff like this all the time, so their original fix of this issue could also be gone with the wind.

Either way, crap happens.

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2 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

And you are looking at server side when you watch the replay. Which is what I am referring to. You don’t see the server decision on order because you don’t get to see the input from players. Server side means client sees things he does before and even if they never happen. 

 

There's minor variations in a couple ways which are explainable by latency... but the events themselves are consistently in the same order across three replays from people in the same battle.

When three players in separate states (and one of them a separate continent) all see the same series of events happening in the same order in the replay.... then it's a pretty safe bet that they happened in that order. If the server disagrees, then there's some major concerns.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

The reason that I'm fairly confident in both (a) the mechanic and (b) the sequence is that I've seen it happen.

I've personally experienced this stuff.

I've even got a replay online that's been cranked down in speed so you can watch how the game registers hits / scoreboard / kills. Replays don't show anything useful to watch for the torpedo delay, because you aren't tracking anything that's not visual. You can't see the command input. But you can see the rest of the things happen in sequence.

And you are looking at server side when you watch the replay. Which is what I am referring to. You don’t see the server decision on order because you don’t get to see the input from players. Server side means client sees things he does before and even if they never happen. 

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8 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

There's minor variations in a couple ways which are explainable by latency... but the events themselves are consistently in the same order across three replays from people in the same battle.

When three players in separate states (and one of them a separate continent) all see the same series of events happening in the same order in the replay.... then it's a pretty safe bet that they happened in that order. If the server disagrees, then there's some major concerns.

 

 

Yes. I agree with you in a sense. What you see in replays and what everyone else sees in replays is the same because it is the exact game the server sees. That is not what we are talking about... go in a game and launch torps within a second of being destroyed and then go watch the replay. You will not see the torps. That is because you were destroyed before you pushed the torp launch to the server. You see things client side that never happen because of timing. This has nothing to do with the order the server registers events at the same time. It is because the server registers you being destroyed and therefor has no reason to register you doing anything.

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Not torpedo related  but, I had a heck of a delay the past couple of days when I would target the manual secondaries on my Bismark to when they would start firing. Sometimes it was if they were broken?

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16 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

Yes. I agree with you in a sense. What you see in replays and what everyone else sees in replays is the same because it is the exact game the server sees. That is not what we are talking about... go in a game and launch torps within a second of being destroyed and then go watch the replay. You will not see the torps. That is because you were destroyed before you pushed the torp launch to the server. You see things client side that never happen because of timing. This has nothing to do with the order the server registers events at the same time. It is because the server registers you being destroyed and therefor has no reason to register you doing anything.

 

Right, but the server has an order in which it will interpret events which happen at the same time.

This is why you can watch rounds impact and be counted as hits by the client, and watch the ship explode before the scoreboard changes from 999 to 000, but the game can end before the player is credited with the kill, and the winning team has zero ships remaining alive.

I suspect that this has something to do with the same game mechanic.

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lag surely plays a role here.

One or two patches ago, I noticed a strange effect/cause thing with killing blows: When a target takes a salvo that finishes it off; I would receive the kill sound an instant before the shots actually landed. This is consistent and there is a long enough interval for the senses to register it so 0.2-0.3 seconds I'm guessing? It's like the draw delay for detection only shorter. Maybe it's just my local latency but it's noticeable.

.

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22 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

Right, but the server has an order in which it will interpret events which happen at the same time.

This is why you can watch rounds impact and be counted as hits by the client, and watch the ship explode before the scoreboard changes from 999 to 000, but the game can end before the player is credited with the kill, and the winning team has zero ships remaining alive.

I suspect that this has something to do with the same game mechanic.

Again... I understand what you are saying but it has 0 to do with what OP was talking about.

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1 hour ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

Again... I understand what you are saying but it has 0 to do with what OP was talking about.

 

With weapons that don't fire if you die at the wrong time?

What possible reason would you have to think that a weapon not firing before dying had nothing whatsoever to do with the server's instructions regarding in which order simultaneous events happen?

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