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Stats Prediction: How will some of the USN CAs / CLs perform in their new tiers?

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I am curious what you guys think the server average, win rate, K/D etc. of the the new and "new" USN cruisers will be once the line split happens:

Currently at Tier 7, Pensacola averages around 27k damage compared to Myoko's 34k, Fiji's almost 40.7k, Yorck's 28-29k, Algerie's 37k, Indy's 29k and Belfast's 47k (if I'm right). At Tier 6 Aoba averages around 27k, Cleveland around 29k, Nurnberg around 26k, the French one at around 28k, Duca at 29k, De Grasse at 32k and Molotov at 36k. Graf Spee also sits at 36k.

 

Currently at Tier 8, New Orleans averages a bit under 30k, compared to Mogami's 41k, Hipper's 37k, Edinburgh's 42k, Chapayev's slightly under 46k, Atago at 38k, Prinz Eugen at 36k, Charles Martel at 52k, Kutuzov at 49k.

 

How will they stack up against their contemporaries once they're TIer 6 and Tier 7, respectively? I'm also curious what are your thoughts on the performance of CLs like Helena and the T8 Cleveland.

 

Note that I am only listing average damage values but please feel free to fill on the other values and your estimation of the averages these cruisers might attain.

Edited by Zionas

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Hopefully they will perform well, to their given tier and that the right amount of testing has been done to not make them OP.

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Currently I average around 155-160% the server average for damage in the Pensacola, with 1.5-1.6 k/D, around a 1.0 K/D, plane kills is low but doesn't matter and win rate is 52-53%. I could see myself doing just as well, or perhaps slightly better in Tier 7 New Orleans.

As for my predictions, Pensacola at Tier 6 could average above 30,000 damage, and New Orleans at Tier 7 could average 32-33k. I predict somewhere above 30k for Pensacola because of the 10-gun broadside a tier lower, and New Orleans will see somewhat of an increase as well due to not seeing Tier 10 matches anymore, plus that Tier 7 is in a somewhat advantageous position in the current matchmaker meaning she'll be top tier quite a bit.

 

Not sure about Cleveland at Tier 8 but its average damage could be a bit higher than Hipper / Prinz Eugen, and Helena at Tier 7 would average 31-32k. As for the light cruisers I'm purely speculating, Helena has a lot of guns.

Edited by Zionas

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I am actually fairly confident in Cleveland being ok, she has a lot in common with Baltimore and even Des Moines. And hopefully Pepsi and NO will also benefit from not having players that have been learning how to drive ships that are so different from them.

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15 minutes ago, justdags said:

I am actually fairly confident in Cleveland being ok, she has a lot in common with Baltimore and even Des Moines. And hopefully Pepsi and NO will also benefit from not having players that have been learning how to drive ships that are so different from them.

You're suggesting, I take it, that the transition from Omaha to Pensacola 6 will be a smoother and more consistent one than that from Cleveland to Pensacola 7? I'm not inclined to disagree with you.

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3 hours ago, Zionas said:

I am curious what you guys think the server average, win rate, K/D etc. of the the new and "new" USN cruisers will be once the line split happens:

Currently at Tier 7, Pensacola averages around 27k damage compared to Myoko's 34k, Fiji's almost 40.7k, Yorck's 28-29k, Algerie's 37k, Indy's 29k and Belfast's 47k (if I'm right). At Tier 6 Aoba averages around 27k, Cleveland around 29k, Nurnberg around 26k, the French one at around 28k, Duca at 29k, De Grasse at 32k and Molotov at 36k. Graf Spee also sits at 36k.

 

Currently at Tier 8, New Orleans averages a bit under 30k, compared to Mogami's 41k, Hipper's 37k, Edinburgh's 42k, Chapayev's slightly under 46k, Atago at 38k, Prinz Eugen at 36k, Charles Martel at 52k, Kutuzov at 49k.

 

How will they stack up against their contemporaries once they're TIer 6 and Tier 7, respectively? I'm also curious what are your thoughts on the performance of CLs like Helena and the T8 Cleveland.

 

Note that I am only listing average damage values but please feel free to fill on the other values and your estimation of the averages these cruisers might attain.

I think NO and Baltimore will do better being dropped a tier as they will see lower tier ships than they have before and none of the nerfs they received really weaken them significantly (did Baltimore lose it's heal? If so that hurts it bad). Pensacola will be as bad or even worse because it sees all the same ships it always did (except no T9) and it was nerfed significantly. 

Personally I think Cleveland will get thrashed at T8 based on what I have seen of the "buffs" and what I know playing the ship at T6. Could be wrong but I think it will just get wrecked. Well, when it is mid to bottom tier anyway. T9 and T10 ships are going to drool over facing the ship I believe. But only time will tell.

No clue on the all new CL's. I think Buffalo will be fine at T9 if not an improvement over Baltimore. 

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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I think in general the USN CA's will all see an improvement stat wise. As for the CL's. At first I can see most of them having balancing issues, with most being on the weak side, but the best thing about the split, is now both the CA's and the CL's will have a better margin for growth for future buffs. Especially with the CA's being downtiered, if future buffs are needed for some of them, wargaming doesn't have to go too much into fantasy La La land to do it. Plus USN CA's also get to reclaim some of their AA reputation back. This is especially true at T8 and 9, where the T8 New Orleans and T9 Baltimore really couldnt be buffed anymore without going into magical fantasy territory. AA was a particular sticking point for New Orleans as her AA was just terrible, and there really was no buffing it. But the T8 Baltimore and T9 buffalo have much better room for future buffs if they ever need it. If Baltimore still under performs at t8, well its an easy fix, restore her heal. If Buffalo under performs, its also an easy fix, buff her RoF.

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2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You're suggesting, I take it, that the transition from Omaha to Pensacola 6 will be a smoother and more consistent one than that from Cleveland to Pensacola 7? I'm not inclined to disagree with you.

Since we start with CL's there is always going to be a shock in the transition to CA's but the lower tier will help

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8 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Since we start with CL's there is always going to be a shock in the transition to CA's but the lower tier will help

I have currently just moved up into the Furutaka A hull. Slow turret traverse, slow reload... sort of the ideal familiarisation ship, really (save for the lack of torpedoes on the Pepsi). Having nearly twice as many barrels is going to help compensate for that, I suspect.

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If the USN CAs are going to see a general stat increase, how much do you think their stats will increase by? A little, a fair amount, or quite significantly?

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6 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I have currently just moved up into the Furutaka A hull. Slow turret traverse, slow reload... sort of the ideal familiarisation ship, really (save for the lack of torpedoes on the Pepsi). Having nearly twice as many barrels is going to help compensate for that, I suspect.

A-Hull Furutaka is not good but the C-Hull is borderline seal clubbing.  Huge difference in the way the ship can fight.

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In the case of Cleveland, they better buff the range, or the boat is going to be pretty helpless. 14.6 is a little short at tier 6, at tier 8 it is Kevorkianesque.

Edited by Doombeagle

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Pensacola is going to struggle as much as it does now.  It's being nerfed to fight the same ships it's already getting it's backside handed to it by.  There is no effective difference between T6 and T7 presently.  People who are good with Pensacola now will continue to be good.  Those who struggle with it, will get out of it sooner?  I suppose that's one thing to look forward to.  The fact is, people make way too much over Pensacola having the second biggest Alpha in T6.  The nerfs are going to hurt her badly.

NOLA will be an upgrade on Pensacola.  She's a smaller target, great guns and better armor than the Pensacola.  She'll be a middle of the pack performer.

Baltimore's going to be an upgrade on NOLA.  Still towards the bottom, the SHS will be able to lay some pain.

Buffalo...probably going to stay about the same as the current T9.  More alpha, but less maneuverability.  To me, it's a wash.

Cleveland is going to struggle.  The effective battle ranges at T8 will make it difficult for her to score hits.  If she can slink in close to something though, she's going to put out a lot of pain.

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The Devs anbd ST's are being coy as usual, with the "subject to change" disclaimer on everything. The CC's are under NDA's, so everything is still general conjecture.

That said, I'm really hoping the whole 8" line gets some help, either with (or both!) shell trajectory or survivability.

The new 6" line  looks pretty meh at first blush, with Helena and Worcester being notable exceptions. I really want to take Helena for a spin.

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concealment and turret rotation

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1 minute ago, crzyhawk said:

concealment and turret rotation

Now THAT is going to be painful.

Overall I'm still looking forward to the split which could be about 3 weeks from now.

Edited by Zionas

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I'll use the turret rotation mod and john doe, and pray that I enjoy it.

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12 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I think NO and Baltimore will do better being dropped a tier as they will see lower tier ships than they have before and none of the nerfs they received really weaken them significantly (did Baltimore lose it's heal? If so that hurts it bad). Pensacola will be as bad or even worse because it sees all the same ships it always did (except no T9) and it was nerfed significantly. 

Personally I think Cleveland will get thrashed at T8 based on what I have seen of the "buffs" and what I know playing the ship at T6. Could be wrong but I think it will just get wrecked. Well, when it is mid to bottom tier anyway. T9 and T10 ships are going to drool over facing the ship I believe. But only time will tell.

No clue on the all new CL's. I think Buffalo will be fine at T9 if not an improvement over Baltimore. 

This:Smile_great:

 

3 hours ago, Doombeagle said:

In the case of Cleveland, they better buff the range, or the boat is going to be pretty helpless. 14.6 is a little short at tier 6, at tier 8 it is Kevorkianesque.

:Smile_great:  Des Moines range isn't much better unless she gives up one of her modification's and replaces it with Aiming Modification 2 or is it 3?  The difference there is the caliber of her gun's and her RoF same with the Minotaur

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They're American cruisers, so they'll be immensely popular and played by a large portion of the population and they're not terribly forgiving.  They'll likely bell curve around the 48% to 50% mark.

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Baltimore is looking to be pretty terrifying at tier VIII.

She's keeping the hilarious 6 rpm, still has SHS + sky-high Krupp & auto bounce angles, and also gets to keep her 27mm extremity armor.

 

At this point her losses from dropping a tier can be summed up as:

 

- 300 HP

- Heal

- 400m of range and 5 second one active time for her radar

- Spotter aircraft (if you ever took it over radar)

 

So, basically, she loses almost nothing (radar nerf and heal are just a produce of down-tiering) - which imo is just ridiculous. 

She's going to be a very strong cruiser for tier VIII.

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3 hours ago, Doombeagle said:

In the case of Cleveland, they better buff the range, or the boat is going to be pretty helpless. 14.6 is a little short at tier 6, at tier 8 it is Kevorkianesque.

i believe they did to 15. something 

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3 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

Pensacola is going to struggle as much as it does now.  It's being nerfed to fight the same ships it's already getting it's backside handed to it by.  There is no effective difference between T6 and T7 presently.  People who are good with Pensacola now will continue to be good.  Those who struggle with it, will get out of it sooner?  I suppose that's one thing to look forward to.  The fact is, people make way too much over Pensacola having the second biggest Alpha in T6.  The nerfs are going to hurt her badly.

NOLA will be an upgrade on Pensacola.  She's a smaller target, great guns and better armor than the Pensacola.  She'll be a middle of the pack performer.

Baltimore's going to be an upgrade on NOLA.  Still towards the bottom, the SHS will be able to lay some pain.

Buffalo...probably going to stay about the same as the current T9.  More alpha, but less maneuverability.  To me, it's a wash.

Cleveland is going to struggle.  The effective battle ranges at T8 will make it difficult for her to score hits.  If she can slink in close to something though, she's going to put out a lot of pain.

I despise Cleveland arcs at T6  but at least you can brawl at that Tier... T8 you might as well play a ship that can hit things at decent range. I just find these high arc shells in general without a consumable like smoke are kinda crap and just dictate this passive game play.

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14 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

They're American cruisers, so they'll be immensely popular and played by a large portion of the population and they're not terribly forgiving.  They'll likely bell curve around the 48% to 50% mark.

What about in terms of combat stats like average damage, K/D ratio, ship kills? What are your predictions for those stats?

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That's really impossible to say, especially for the big changes such as the Baltimore

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