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ds105

Game crashes and "Warning for Unsporting Conduct"

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So, in a recent change, users get warnings for leaving games early and getting put in "pink" status. This is awesome. However... I have noticed that when my game crashes during a battle, upon logging back in, if the battle had ended already, I get a warning as if I had left early intentionally.

 

Was this an intended effect of the new warning system in place?

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Same and it doesn't help that the Mac wrapper is so buggy, it crashes often. 

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Working as intended.

I have this concern as well. I had a rash of internet outages over a few day period when they were doing some infrastructure upgrades in the ares. If the current system was in place then I'd be in co-op in for a very long time. They were putting in new lines and all sorts of stuff we were told.

None of that is unsporting behavior. What do you do, call the provider and ask for a note so I get a "get out of jail free" card?

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While the policy as a whole is a good thing it's clear it needs fine tuning in several areas like this one. WG are you listening?

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Yeah, sadly the game doesn't distinguish between leaving the game by yourself and a game crash, tthey should check that, or make the reports available only when the game is over, in case the player returned after the crash and avoid the early reports, that way the player who left on purpose can be penalized and the one who suffered a game crash don't. 

Edited by ShakaSenketsu
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While it is apparently un-sportsman like for you to have internet connection issues; it is also apparently NOT un-sportsman like for WoW to penalize you for it. Go figure.

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I have a strong feeling (and hope) that they will make adjustments based on the data they are collecting.  WG did announce that they are extending the time between patches by a week because they have not been able to do enough testing before rolling out a new patch.  I really hope players are sending in support tickets with specifics so they can adjust this mechanic to work more as it is intended to work.

It doesn't help that there was no transition period.  One day, pink means you are a TKer of some sort.  The next day, it means that you could be a TKer or someone that had their internet or game hiccup for any number of reasons.  Note that I am trying to avoid the situation of people pressing Battle when their is a reasonable expectation that they may get interrupted.  Interestingly, they have been including Co-op in a number of the missions so you can still earn the rewards, albeit at a slower pace.

Edited by ExploratorOne

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Sadly this is a technical limitation. There is no fool proof way to make an application know that it has crashed/disconnected vs a player that force kills or yanks the cable because of raging. They can either punish all people who DC/crash/rage quit or not punish anyone at all.

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There is a way, but it causes the same privacy issues that basing MM on the loadout of the player's ship does.  Buried in the Eula could be wording that says we allow WG to see what is running on our computers/devices and to access information on the modem.  That would allow them to see whether the signal to the modem had dropped from the provider or through disconnection.  Since that is probably never going to happen, there is no way to accurately detect it.

What I am expecting is that the number of times during a time period is increased.  If posters are to be believed, people are becoming pink from the first instance of disconnection; that is way too restrictive.  If I play for several hours in a session, I know there will a time where my team is moving out and I am still on the loading screen, waiting to be added.  I have to Ctr-Alt-Del and kill WOWS and log back into the game.  On rare occasions, the game has been reluctant to log back in and I don't make it back in during the battle.  I will not be very happy to be running around pink in Ranked if that happens to me.

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Don't leave while you are alive. If you are having crashing problems fix them before playing again.

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I've been arguing against the new punishment mechanic since it started.  It's not fair when my ISP sucks so bad that I can only play Co-op and when I get DC'd, I get a warning, punishment, etc.

I don't like it at all.

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9 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Don't leave while you are alive. If you are having crashing problems fix them before playing again.

Problem is - there will be people that crash no matter what is done - just the nature of technology and an online game .

Frankly - I will crash at some point in time and will work off the incredibly small number of games on co-op.  It does not brand you as a bad player and other than a color change it literally is nothing to get worked up over. 

 

As for a process to see what is running- PunkBuster did that (along with monitoring files ) to prevent cheating at online games and there was a large uproar and this was back in the very early 2000s before the current state of paranoia.  While it still exists it is highly controversial.

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9 hours ago, mohawkdriver said:

I've been arguing against the new punishment mechanic since it started.  It's not fair when my ISP sucks so bad that I can only play Co-op and when I get DC'd, I get a warning, punishment, etc.

I don't like it at all.

The fact is people are sick and tired of afk players, so WG does this, if your relegated to co op for being afk, it means you are, a lot of the time, which means, all your doing is hurting teams when your not around.  You are the very reason this punishment system is in place, so thank you.

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9 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Don't leave while you are alive. If you are having crashing problems fix them before playing again.

It is not that simple and you very well know it.

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I think the punishment system is a great idea, all those people who constantly go afk that we see, regardless of whats happening on their end, will eventually go orange and we wont see them in our games anymore.  The more you do it the more penalty you get.

Same with the TK people, keep doing it, you disappear.

The general population of wows players will sing this.

 

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4 minutes ago, ds105 said:

It is not that simple and you very well know it.

Your OP implied you are leaving early, sorry if that was not what you were saying and yes it is that simple that if you are regularly crashing that you need to fix whatever is causing the crashes. That might require you to remove all traces of WoWS and reinstall. If you do not have an SSD this would be a good opportunity to also do a fresh install of Windows and WoWS. SSD's are getting cheaper and cheaper with 250 GB costing well under $100 and 500 GB around that price.

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WoWS shouldn't be punishing D/C's and "AFK" players until they produce a game with more fundamental stability. (And don't tell me it's my comp, I've checked ALL the boxes for more reliable performance, fresh installs, drivers, game checker, anti-virus, ect. They have reduced the problems from utterly unplayable to merely infuriating. All the while, WOT and other programs run flawlessly.)

I'm really trying to get back into the game, but repeated critical errors, random lock screens and other issues are making me consider taking my business elsewhere.

 

Matt

 

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4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Your OP implied you are leaving early, sorry if that was not what you were saying and yes it is that simple that if you are regularly crashing that you need to fix whatever is causing the crashes. That might require you to remove all traces of WoWS and reinstall. If you do not have an SSD this would be a good opportunity to also do a fresh install of Windows and WoWS. SSD's are getting cheaper and cheaper with 250 GB costing well under $100 and 500 GB around that price.

And just 1 patch ago it was WG causing the fps drops and crashing... So they can't Evan fix the game to work reliably from patch to patch. , yet impose this draconian punishment system.

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4 minutes ago, killsbane67 said:

And just 1 patch ago it was WG causing the fps drops and crashing... So they can't Evan fix the game to work reliably from patch to patch. , yet impose this draconian punishment system.

Is the FPS drop and crash still happening? I never had an issue with that.

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ANYONE know how other game sites deal with internet crashes or PC lockups.  Games like Steel Ocean, War Thunder, or anything similar.   How to they deal with it even if they deal with it at all in the form of warnings or punishment ??

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1 minute ago, mobryan said:

WoWS shouldn't be punishing D/C's and "AFK" players until they produce a game with more fundamental stability. (And don't tell me it's my comp, I've checked ALL the boxes for more reliable performance, fresh installs, drivers, game checker, anti-virus, ect. They have reduced the problems from utterly unplayable to merely infuriating. All the while, WOT and other programs run flawlessly.)

I'm really trying to get back into the game, but repeated critical errors, random lock screens and other issues are making me consider taking my business elsewhere.

 

Matt

 

And yet with so many people who do not experience what you say your experiencing, some might say it is still your problem and not WG

1 minute ago, killsbane67 said:

And just 1 patch ago it was WG causing the fps drops and crashing... So they can't Evan fix the game to work reliably from patch to patch. , yet impose this draconian punishment system.

Draconian is an adjective meaning great severity, that derives from Draco, an Athenian law scribe under whom small offenses had heavy punishments (Draconian laws).

Small offences only turn you pink, large offences ( continuing do it so therefore large) gets you locked up

There is nothing Draconian about it.

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

The fact is people are sick and tired of afk players, so WG does this, if your relegated to co op for being afk, it means you are, a lot of the time, which means, all your doing is hurting teams when your not around.  You are the very reason this punishment system is in place, so thank you.

No, his ISP is the reason for it. Some of the replies on this thread are amazing - expecting the player to somehow "fix" his ISP. If it were that easy, nobody would ever have a bad internet connection, ever.

If the system now punishes people for disconnects, that is foolish, and that's coming from somebody who might have the game crash once every few months. First, I'm not buying the notion that intentional disconnects are a huge problem. I rarely see them, and I play reasonably often at tiers 4 through 8. 

Second, if they ARE a problem caused by trolls, there's almost surely a pattern to them: Players constantly disconnecting on certain maps or game modes, players only disconnecting when their team is losing, players with horrible stats and nothing but a few ships that only play to disconnect, etc. I find it extremely unlikely that there are people out there who play the game just to disconnect randomly to make it look like it was accidental simply because that's not an effective form of trolling or rage-quitting.

That pattern, which almost surely must exist, should be use in conjunction with disconnect and reconnect data to merit punishments. Any game punishment system that is stupid enough to punish a person for what is obviously a disconnect based on his play records until that point is simply a bad system. "Oh, you've been playing 3 games tonight like a normal player and then on game 4 you go AFK in the middle of the match and log back in as soon as possible. Clearly, that was intentional and you should be punished!" Yeah, that's a badly written system.

Edited by old_radagast
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6 minutes ago, dionkraft said:

ANYONE know how other game sites deal with internet crashes or PC lockups.  Games like Steel Ocean, War Thunder, or anything similar.   How to they deal with it even if they deal with it at all in the form of warnings or punishment ??

Teamkilling

Any team kill incident has negative consequences for the team-killer.

 

We have auto-kick and auto-ban features and continuously working on team killing policy.

 

 What is the Auto Kick and Auto ban feature?  It is explained below:

 To determine if it is necessary to punish players that are firing on allies  (deliberate or accidental), we are recording statistics regarding the number of occasions when destruction or damage is done to allies in conjunction with the number of aircraft and tanks used in battle by the player causing the damage. For various actions against allies, a user will collect a specific number of penalty points. The number of penalty points gathered depends on the type of vehicle in which a player has damaged his allies and the game mode in which the player is in . From this data we calculate what appropriate punishment will be given to the user that has attacked their allies. All this depends on the actions that a player has done. A player can be kicked from the session or even banned from it.


From now on, not only the amount of teamkills within a certain period of time will be taken into account, but also a comparison between teamkills to respawns which in most cases will indicate bad intention - eg if a player spawns, teamkills, spawns again , teamkills etc etc. This means that now the system will also take the into account the amount of respawns so that players who have destroyed their allies unintentionally will not be punished. Also, damaging allies by shooting or ramming is also now taken into account. So deliberate shooting at teammates may result in a kick from the session and ban from 1 to 7 days, depending on the situation. The system will try to determine and identify only unsportsmanship behaviour.

I couldn't find anything for afk

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3 minutes ago, old_radagast said:

Oh, you've been playing 3 games tonight like a normal player and then on game 4 you go AFK in the middle of the match and log back in as soon as possible

Yes this has happened, just the other night, internet went out, came back on, I logged back in and kept playing my ship, no pink, no worries

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Just now, CriMiNaL__ said:

Yes this has happened, just the other night, internet went out, came back on, I logged back in and kept playing my ship, no pink, no worries

Good. Another game I play online is more draconian about that type of stuff and will punish for disconnects. Which is foolish because that game is also cheaply written and unstable to this day, so it's doubly idiotic since the problem is on their end, not mine.

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