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Jamesalot_ET

Target Acquisition System Modification 1

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Is the TASM 1 ever going to be updated to be competitive with concealment and ruddershift. In my opinion the only thing it has that is going to be useful 90% of the games is the torpedo acquisition +20%. The other 2 parts of it are sub par especially spotting range since your spotting range is usually more then your gun range its not like it increases the chance to detect someone past what their detection range is. Both the Concelment mod and the rudder shift mod in the same spot give more uses. So has anyone heard or seen anything about WG changing it to make it more competitive.

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The only day this module will be competitive is the day that concealment module goes away, and I don't think that will happen. Detection is survival and control over engagements, and that's priceless in a game like World of Warships, so TAM1 will always be a niche choice.

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Give it a slight concealment bonus (half of regular concealment) and then it might become viable on some battleships, but I agree with @Woofship, concealment is always more valuable. 

 

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I made a suggestion once before but of course nothing came of it. it was to give target acquisition mod the ability to reduce how long your detected from 20 sec to 15 sec. to me that would be a great way to make it competitive and not break the game.

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personally I take TASM1 quite often, as I figure I can just stay a little further back initially, but its there for when I need to push.

 

I tend to only equip the CSM1 on ships (in conjunction with the CE skill) when its absolutely needed, i.e. DD's and some cruisers where there is a big advantage to be had vs. other cruisers, however if the nature of the cruiser makes it good for DD hunting I will often forgo CSM1 for TASM1 knowing that the CE skill on its own gives comparable benefit to other cruisers that need BOTH CSM1 + the CE skill to be equal, thus I get the TASM1 advantage for free without giving away much vs. other types of cruisers.

 

but for instance Alabama, Missouri, Alsace, Gascogne, and Belfast have TASM1, while Monarch and Edinburgh have CSM1, but Belfast/Edinburgh and Monarch are the only ones with dedicated commanders with CE skill.

 

while on some tech tree ships, I forgo the 10% gun range from the upgrade gun FCS module and stick with the stock one, as there is no point broadcasting your position 10% further each time you fire your main guns.

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21 minutes ago, Jamesalot_ET said:

I made a suggestion once before but of course nothing came of it. it was to give target acquisition mod the ability to reduce how long your detected from 20 sec to 15 sec. to me that would be a great way to make it competitive and not break the game.

Why would target acquisition just be a different form of concealment?  Bad idea.

There are plenty of other things that target acquisition could do to be more valuable.  Just some random ideas:

- Increased sigma

- Reduced dispersion

- Retain target lock for 10 seconds after losing visual contact

There are plenty of options.... just creating another skill that increases your concealment is not the way to go.

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Plain and simple it should counteract concealment.

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22 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

Why would target acquisition just be a different form of concealment?  Bad idea.

There are plenty of other things that target acquisition could do to be more valuable.  Just some random ideas:

- Increased sigma

- Reduced dispersion

- Retain target lock for 10 seconds after losing visual contact

There are plenty of options.... just creating another skill that increases your concealment is not the way to go.

I like the retain target lock for 10 sec after losing vision. that would make it a great perk. especially for players that know already how to shot at targets in smoke. they would probably be decent at shotting a target they just lost vision on but are still locked on to. making this a great counter to using the concealment mod.

 

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1 hour ago, Jamesalot_ET said:

Is the TASM 1 ever going to be updated to be competitive with concealment and ruddershift. In my opinion the only thing it has that is going to be useful 90% of the games is the torpedo acquisition +20%. The other 2 parts of it are sub par especially spotting range since your spotting range is usually more then your gun range its not like it increases the chance to detect someone past what their detection range is. Both the Concelment mod and the rudder shift mod in the same spot give more uses. So has anyone heard or seen anything about WG changing it to make it more competitive.

Standard acquisition is 2km (for all ship...no matter type/size)...TASM1 increases it to 3km...useful for BBs when DDs are trying to stealth around an island to torp you...the sooner you see them while still behind that island the more time you have to react to the inevitable torps (that are also spotted earlier w/TASM1...although there are no set values on that as each type of torp has it's own detection range so the 20% is based off individual torp detection).

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TASM1 is really only for ships that intend light themselves up light a Christmas tree for the whole map to see by always keeping the guns hot. So mainly some niche battleship builds.

Everyone else gets more worth out of the concealment module, for the concealment or dispersion debuff or both.

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TASM is more viable for destroyers because of the rather short spotting range of destroyers, but it has some utility with other ship types. It's function allows you an extra 1-3 km of spotting the enemy, which in turn allows you a bit more time to gauge the situation and react, such as a DD spotting a cruiser early and hightailing it or a cruiser to see gun blooms of other ships that it might not see with out TASM-allowing some ability to reposition for a better advantage.

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51 minutes ago, Fusilier01 said:

TASM is more viable for destroyers because of the rather short spotting range of destroyers, but it has some utility with other ship types. It's function allows you an extra 1-3 km of spotting the enemy, which in turn allows you a bit more time to gauge the situation and react, such as a DD spotting a cruiser early and hightailing it or a cruiser to see gun blooms of other ships that it might not see with out TASM-allowing some ability to reposition for a better advantage.

at tier 8 the kagero has 16.6km range for spotting enemy ships. you don't need any more range then that. even if you had an ally close(5km) behind you that would make the target 22km away from the target. if you are up spotting. that is basically half the map at 16.6km. even then if you have an ally 5km behind you. most tier 8+ cruisers have 21km spotting range.

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TASM1 is due for some buffs. But it would remain a situational/specialized module compared to the universally useful CSM1, but be more valuable if one of the three listed updates were utilized on TASM1.

Option 1:

  • +100% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships (4km)
    • Provides a bigger benefit to the few players that actually use the module and go smoke diving, but otherwise very situationally useful (compared to the globally useful Concealment module). Since firing DDs already have around a 3km firing "penalty" while in smoke, it doesn't really affect them, but it does give those smoke diving an extra km to surprise the enemy DD if they were attempting to run silent; no guns and only torps ready.
  • +20% to spotting range
    • No changes, since this also more or less neutralizes the Camouflage concealment bonus. Personally, I'd push for +25%, just to slightly further the usefulness of TASM1.
  • +25% to the acquisition range of torpedoes
    • a 5% buff over current; also situational considering most still prefer Concealment by default. Personally I'd push for 50%, as then it'd be of much more value to large ships that can't really take advantage of CSM1 in the first place due to poor concealment. But a 5% buff to the existing acquisition range of torpedoes still helps a bit (mainly heavy cruisers that are maneuverable enough to react, but not large cruisers (Henri/Moskva) or bigger).
  • +2 km spotting range while under Cyclone/Thunderstorm Front conditions
    • Any accuracy penalties while under the Thunderstorm Front effect remain as-is, (currently only in Operation Hermes, but would later be rolled out to PvP/PvE in the future, according to WG)
    • A fixed 10km visibility under Cyclone (+2km over standard)
    • Same for Thunderstorm Front if it also has only an 8km visibility range by default (I forget the exact visibility limitations under T.Front from Hermes)

Option 2: Alternatively, instead of buffing Assured Acquisition to +100%, add:

  • -5% to maximum dispersion
    • Zeros out the dispersion penalty when targeting CSM1-equipped ships (most of the playerbase), but remains net negative due to most camouflage bonuses having an additional +4% dispersion to incoming enemy shells, and only made net zero or net positive with the Accuracy module instead of the other module options.
  • +50% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships
    • No change from current.
  • +20% to spotting range
    • No change from current.
  • +25% to the acquisition range of torpedoes
    • a 5% buff over current; also situational considering most still prefer Concealment by default.
  • +2 km spotting range while under Cyclone/Thunderstorm Front conditions
    • Same as Option 1.

Option 3: Personally, if I could have pushed hard:

  • -5% to maximum dispersion
  • +100% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships
  • +25% to spotting range
  • +25% to the acquisition range of torpedoes
  • +2 km spotting range while under Cyclone/Thunderstorm Front conditions

Basically, doubling assured acquisition, an additional +5% to spotting ships and torpedoes, and the general buff to visibility under adverse weather conditions, and zeroing out the CSM1 dispersion penalty. Still wouldn't make TASM1 more desirable than CSM1, but it would have more utility when used on the appropriate ships (BBs, certain heavy/superheavy cruisers, the swiss-army USN CLs, and gunship DDs), and offer a situational advantage during the rare Cyclone/T.Storm Front.

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14 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:
  • +20% to spotting range
    • No changes, since this also more or less neutralizes the Camouflage concealment bonus. Personally, I'd push for +25%, just to slightly further the usefulness of TASM1.

How does +20% spotting range neutralize any camouflage concealment bonus? All it does is make your ship capable of seeing 20% further from your max spotting range which for most ships is already well over 15km.

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I wonder how it would effect things if it boosted everything?

  • Increased torpedo detection range
  • Increased hydro range
  • Increased radar range
  • Increased proximity detection range
  • Decreased the effects of a Cyclone 
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Maybe it could be like built in RDF... Maybe auto detect ships that are using radar while the ship is detected by it? That might be downright handy especially if that location is shared with your fleet.

Replace some captain skills... as mentioned above- I like @Yoshiblue comments too. +1

Simple fact is if it's going to be viable then it needs to bring a little more to the table. Not much- just more. 

 

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If they wanted it to actually be chosen sometimes, it would ping back a radar equipped ship in addition to its currently niche abilities (such that when revealed by radar, the ship with the radar would itself be revealed, as long as the TASM equipped ship is in the radar radius).

This would actually make it a choice to use either hydro (which would not be affected but has a shorter range) or radar (at the risk of being counterpinged). For the Missouri, this isn't really a problem since it would be detected for certain anyway at that range, but with the usual caveats of putting a BB that close to torps.

It would also be a choice for DDs who have to choose between better overall concealment (which would apply under more conditions) or the ability to counterping radar.

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Concealment is too valuable on most ships. For the few builds that don't need CSM1, they take SGM3. TASM1 is downright pointless. All of the effects are worthless. Nobody needs 3km proxy spotting, view range is a meme, and torps are already so easy to dodge that both TASM1 and Vigilance are pointless on most ships.

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On 06/05/2018 at 7:13 AM, Jamesalot_ET said:

Is the TASM 1 ever going to be updated to be competitive with concealment and ruddershift. In my opinion the only thing it has that is going to be useful 90% of the games is the torpedo acquisition +20%. The other 2 parts of it are sub par especially spotting range since your spotting range is usually more then your gun range its not like it increases the chance to detect someone past what their detection range is. Both the Concelment mod and the rudder shift mod in the same spot give more uses. So has anyone heard or seen anything about WG changing it to make it more competitive.

I know it's a Necro, but funny how we were discussing this on TS James.

Really like these two and they would certainly make sense given the addition of radar to the game since inception...

  • Changing to + %100 to Assured detection
  • Changes to Cyclone detection ranges

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