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Spectacular_Insanity

HSF Harekaze Hull 11-12 question

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Did they ever fix the weird low HP problem of the Harekaze's 11-12 hull's 127mm/54 guns? When this ship first came out, the guns had about 1/4 the HP turrets should normally have, and I swear every game I played nearly all my guns would get destroyed as soon as any HE shells so much as looked in my direction. I actually like the 127/54 guns as back-ups (I typically play my Harekaze like an under-gunned Akizuki or like a better Kagero, which it kind of tries to be), but their low HP was a serious detriment in any gunfight. Since the ship released, I've used exclusively the 100mm guns since I love my Akizuki, but I was curious to play it with a more typical IJN DD captain build (but with different guns).

Reason I'm asking is because I always see Harekaze's running with 100mm guns exclusively and I'm not sure if it was because of force of habit by my fellow IJN DD players or because the 127/54's really suck. I know they have much lower alpha-strike potential than the other turret options, but the idea of running something different for once intrigues me.

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IIRC, yes they did.

I think Miss Maus mentioned it somewhere in the Harekaze review, deep amongst the comments and replies that other people made in that thread.

ADDED: Here you go, I took a screen cap of her quote.

Spoiler

Untitled000xz.thumb.png.6fefb3bbe6c7f2039d487ea088fa5eea.png

It's on page 10 of the Harekaze Review.

Edited by Blorgh2017
added a pic and a link

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Speaking of Harekaze, the reason why most people are sailing her with the B hull is because it is her best hull. You do need the captain skill IFHE, but she really, really shines best with it. I'm sure you know all this already, however. x3

Unlike most people, I personally just use the C hull with my Harekaze. I know the DPM is rock bottom with it, but the gun handling is just too good to pass up for me. It still starts fires pretty decently anyway, and Harekaze is a ninja-stealth-ambush-shadow-stalking-spy torp bote first and foremost, so...

I just personally am not a fan of IFHE, as it's one of few captain skills with an actual trade off. You gain penetration, but loses a bit of fire starting chance... and that's just a no go for me. :P

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The DPM of the 100mm guns, even without IFHE, is simply superior to the main hull, though the hull with the USN 127's is freakin outstanding too, hit hard, high fire chance, good for AA, etc.

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Liked the 11-12 hull for the higher velocity, flatter gun arcs; but have recently been using the 3/4-Akizuki flavored Harekaze.

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26 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

The DPM of the 100mm guns, even without IFHE, is simply superior to the main hull, though the hull with the USN 127's is freakin outstanding too, hit hard, high fire chance, good for AA, etc.

Just a theoretical question.

Say that you didn't have an IFHE trained captain, say, from an Akizuki.  Would that captain be better off in the C hull rather than the B hull? Put another way, if the captain you use in the Harekaze doesn't have IFHE, are you better off with the C hull's guns over the B hull's 100mm guns?

 

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4 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Liked the 11-12 hull for the higher velocity, flatter gun arcs; but have recently been using the 3/4-Akizuki flavored Harekaze.

The B hull Harekaze (with an IFHE captain) may be the single most balanced (between guns and torpedoes) IJN DD, even if it's not technically an IJN DD.

 

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

Just a theoretical question.

Say that you didn't have an IFHE trained captain, say, from an Akizuki.  Would that captain be better off in the C hull rather than the B hull? Put another way, if the captain you use in the Harekaze doesn't have IFHE, are you better off with the C hull's guns over the B hull's 100mm guns?

 

Only if you're fighting something big, like a CA or BB, or a CV. Against another DD, no, 6 barrels outweighs 3, especially since on average only 2 will land even at close range.

 

The 100mm are simply the best all around guns. Akizuki wracks up damage, even without IFHE, IFHE just improves upon what she can damage. I'd rather try and dodge a BB's guns than Akizuki's. She and ATL can simply machine gun anything to death.

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I love my Akizuki, so I always used the 100mm DAKKA DAKKA cannons, but I just wanted to spice it up a bit and respec the captain to get a bit faster torpedo reload. The idea of being able to drop IFHE and take Radio Location instead is intriguing to me.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Just a theoretical question.

Say that you didn't have an IFHE trained captain, say, from an Akizuki.  Would that captain be better off in the C hull rather than the B hull? Put another way, if the captain you use in the Harekaze doesn't have IFHE, are you better off with the C hull's guns over the B hull's 100mm guns?

 

In my opinion, yes. If you have, say, a mainline IJN DD captain, using the 127/54's would be much easier than respeccing or money or elite exp. The Harekaze 100mm guns and the Akizuki (I use the same commander for both... good old Akeno Misaki) more-or-less require a dedicated, HIGH LEVEL captain to be truly effective.

TO be perfectly frank, though, I do play the Harekaze the same as I would Shiratsuyu (I haven't gotten the mainline IJN DDs, yet). That is, a torp-boat, albeit with STOCK Kagero torpedoes but best-in-class surface detection. But having guns that aren't crapis invaluable, considering that most IJN DDs cannot compete with other nations' DD gun-based firepower. But the Harekaze can, if barely, and that's something that other other IJN DDs can only dream of. PLUS you don't have to give up all the speed on the Harekaze that you do with the Akizuki.

That being said, I still tend to do better on the Akizuki because of the fat HP pool she has... and I don't even have Survivability Expert on her yet. I play Akizuki completely differently. I play her like I do my Atlanta... and no I'm not joking. I terrorize enemy DDs, push caps, and trade HE volleys to come out on top and capitalize on the superior HP pool.

Harekaze, at her core, is still a Kagero, but you aren't helpless if you need to use your guns. And you DO need to use her guns when the opportunity presents itself, or you're leaving a lot of potential damage and harassing capability on the table. BBs still hate you almost as much as they hate the Akizuki.

Just watch out for those radar ships. Your HP is very low even for a DD and you will die VERY quickly if you get spotted by any patrolling cruisers or DDs with more HP/firepower (i.e. most other DDs that aren't IJN).

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7 minutes ago, Spectacular_Insanity said:

In my opinion, yes. If you have, say, a mainline IJN DD captain, using the 127/54's would be much easier than respeccing or money or elite exp. The Harekaze 100mm guns and the Akizuki (I use the same commander for both... good old Akeno Misaki) more-or-less require a dedicated, HIGH LEVEL captain to be truly effective.

TO be perfectly frank, though, I do play the Harekaze the same as I would Shiratsuyu (I haven't gotten the mainline IJN DDs, yet). That is, a torp-boat, albeit with STOCK Kagero torpedoes but best-in-class surface detection. But having guns that aren't crapis invaluable, considering that most IJN DDs cannot compete with other nations' DD gun-based firepower. But the Harekaze can, if barely, and that's something that other other IJN DDs can only dream of. PLUS you don't have to give up all the speed on the Harekaze that you do with the Akizuki.

That being said, I still tend to do better on the Akizuki because of the fat HP pool she has... and I don't even have Survivability Expert on her yet. I play Akizuki completely differently. I play her like I do my Atlanta... and no I'm not joking. I terrorize enemy DDs, push caps, and trade HE volleys to come out on top and capitalize on the superior HP pool.

Harekaze, at her core, is still a Kagero, but you aren't helpless if you need to use your guns. And you DO need to use her guns when the opportunity presents itself, or you're leaving a lot of potential damage and harassing capability on the table. BBs still hate you almost as much as they hate the Akizuki.

Just watch out for those radar ships. Your HP is very low even for a DD and you will die VERY quickly if you get spotted by any patrolling cruisers or DDs with more HP/firepower (i.e. most other DDs that aren't IJN).

First off, and don't take this the wrong way because no offense is intended, I'm very experienced in the IJN DD lines.

I think that you made a good observation that should have easily occurred to me earlier.  The Harekaze, particularly without the B hull and an Akizuki IFHE trained captain, is pretty much just a Kagero.  And regardless of whether you use the A or C hull, it's probably best to continue to think of yourself as a stealth torp boat first and foremost, whereas the B hull with an IFHE trained Akizuki captain can be more like a balanced USN sort of DD.

 

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6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

First off, and don't take this the wrong way because no offense is intended, I'm very experienced in the IJN DD lines.

I think that you made a good observation that should have easily occurred to me earlier.  The Harekaze, particularly without the B hull and an Akizuki IFHE trained captain, is pretty much just a Kagero.  And regardless of whether you use the A or C hull, it's probably best to continue to think of yourself as a stealth torp boat first and foremost, whereas the B hull with an IFHE trained Akizuki captain can be more like a balanced USN sort of DD.

 

No problem, no offense taken. I just want people to know so they don't go in thinking it's an Akizuki, because it's not. Your torps are better (because you have one more launcher), but your HP is low and that's a problem if you're too aggressive. I've gotten sent back to the port early many times before realizing that I WILL die if I don't far more cautiously than I play my Akizuki. I learned the hard way... that is, by dying a lot, lol. XD

Edited by Spectacular_Insanity

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Just a theoretical question.

Say that you didn't have an IFHE trained captain, say, from an Akizuki.  Would that captain be better off in the C hull rather than the B hull? Put another way, if the captain you use in the Harekaze doesn't have IFHE, are you better off with the C hull's guns over the B hull's 100mm guns?

 

It truly depends on how skilled you are employing the 100's.  If you can consistently hit the upper works on big ships and understand the fundamental weakness against DD's (you must memorize every DD's armor plate to be able to not shatter HE and optimize use of AP), then you are good to go on the B hull without IFHE.  But, it takes a very polished captain to pull this off.  It's a ton of work.  The C hull is easy.  You just don't have any sort of sustained dpm against anything you will ever face.  Hit and run fast.  Or die. 

I believe most run the C hull until they have a captain who can run both CE and IFHE.  Also, unless we're talking ranked, you really don't need RPF.  It's nice...no doubt.  But, I would prioritize IFHE first.  With an IFHE build, you are only competing against Kagero's and Asashio's for spotting supremacy.  You will out spot everything...by a wide margin.  And, if you run into a non-Aki IJN DD?   You will crush it. 

I ran the Harekaze in ranked last season.  It was good until you ranked down to 10, then it's lack of HP's was really exploited...and the prevalence of Lo Yang's really pushed it into a pure torp/spotting role.  TBH...the Kagero is just better at that role.  Still, the Harekaze is truly a fun boat to play.

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13 hours ago, Crucis said:

First off, and don't take this the wrong way because no offense is intended, I'm very experienced in the IJN DD lines.

I think that you made a good observation that should have easily occurred to me earlier.  The Harekaze, particularly without the B hull and an Akizuki IFHE trained captain, is pretty much just a Kagero.  And regardless of whether you use the A or C hull, it's probably best to continue to think of yourself as a stealth torp boat first and foremost, whereas the B hull with an IFHE trained Akizuki captain can be more like a balanced USN sort of DD.

 

Exactly so. She's a torp boat that can fight back, much to the chagrin of many, many other DD drivers.

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Hey

With regards to the Harekaze; what would be the best hull and best captain setup if using only a 10pt Captain?  I want to try it, but that low HP forces you to use SE.  I would assume PT, AR, SE, CE for capt.  I think the 11-12 hull looks interesting but 3 guns sucks.

 

Pete

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On 5/5/2018 at 11:10 PM, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

With regards to the Harekaze; what would be the best hull and best captain setup if using only a 10pt Captain?  I want to try it, but that low HP forces you to use SE.  I would assume PT, AR, SE, CE for capt.  I think the 11-12 hull looks interesting but 3 guns sucks.

 

Pete

Personally, what I did when leveling up my Harekaze captain was I started with the 4-10 Hull (100mm guns) + IFHE as a tier 4 skill and simply worked around my larger detection radius until I hit 14 skill points so I could also grab Concealment Expert. Yes, having the concealment right away is nice, but if you choose the 4-10 Hull, being able to actually damage DDs that angle towards you is nicer.

That is assuming you really hate those 11-12 Hull guns, which I can understand if you think 3 guns is too few to work with. Many people think the same, which is why the 4-10 Hull is vastly more popular. Akizuki guns on a Kagero? Yes please. Just be aware you'll have to keep a bit more distance and risk getting outspotted sometimes if you decide to grind down the skills lineup for the 4-10 Hull.

If you do decide to use the 11-12 Hull, keep in mind you damage tends to be more of a 30/70 damage split between gun/torpedoes, whereas on the 4-10 Hull that tends to be much closer to a 50/50 split. It will depend on your playstyle. That is, whether you're more interested in playing a primary torpedo-boat or a hybrid DD, respectively.

No point in using the 1-4 Hull. You might as well just play the Kagero at that point and get better torpedoes and slightly more HP.

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