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Belthorian

Why are there no team battles?

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 I think everyone can agree that the single most frustrating mode to play in this game is random battles. You can go from skunking an enemy team to getting skunked in back to back battles. You can have a match where the team communicates and works well together and then in the next match have a salt fest where you get cussed out for making a suggestion on strategy. That is the problem with randoms, they are just to random. In ANY MMO the WORST gaming experience is the pick up group, known as the PUG. PUG's and PUGGERS in general are just miserable which is why I can not seem to figure out why Wargaming has seemed to embrace this mode of game play as the centerpiece of their game. I would love to see large divisions enabled where I could play 12 man battles with my clan. Where communicating through teamspeak or discord replaces the toxic chat window. Yes there were clan battles but it was a horribly gimped version of play limiting the types of ships and numbers limiting the fun factor of that mode. Let us link multiple divisions together and drop, let us play with our friends instead of being forced into randoms for 12v12 battles. I know the anti social solo yolo players will throw a fit......but in reality it is those players who KILL MMO communities. Would certain clans dominate randoms with large divisions, or team play probably. However I would rather lose to a better team of players with my clan 10,000 times over than play a solo player game that you play online. 

There is a REASON why Wargaming has trouble retaining players. The Random battle environment just sucks there is no way around that. To keep people interested Wargaming has to continually introduce new toys and ship lines to distract the player from the fact that Random battles are just not that enjoyable.

 

There is a reason I played Age Of Conan for seven years. SWTOR for four, DDO for four. Raids were FUN and challenging. I made so many online friends that I still communicate with today. Stop focusing on digital toys to keep people interested and start getting team oriented play into this game and watch your player retention rate slowly increase.

I can only imagine how much fun a 12v12 team battle with no ship restrictions would be. 

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Don't MMOs keep introducing content to keep players interested? And if people hated solo play so much, shouldn't it be more rare to see players not in a division?

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27 minutes ago, Seadog_Supreme said:

There are team battles; they're called Clan Battles.

In WoT, last I knew, there were multiple forms of team based formats, not just clan wars.  There were Tank Companies, Team Battles, and for clans specifically, there were Strongholds (basically tank companies for clans only) and finally Clan Wars.

 

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43 minutes ago, Seadog_Supreme said:

There are team battles; they're called Clan Battles.

Yes there are but they were stripped down versions of random battles. Limited to one battleship, no carriers. I would like to see a full 12v12 mode.

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45 minutes ago, cometguy said:

Don't MMOs keep introducing content to keep players interested? And if people hated solo play so much, shouldn't it be more rare to see players not in a division?

I think there are a lot of people who only want to play solo. The anti social types who only care for themselves. All they care about is personal stats and griefing other players. In Dungeons and Dragons online, there was NO SOLO content. You had to group to do basic quests. They were 6 man groups, you could pug or do it with guildies. It was the BEST MMO environment I ever played. Than they released solo content so a solo player could grind to max level without having to group once. It KILLED the game in less than a year. Gone were the pugs and 6 man's, you would sit in cue for 40 minutes or more. DDO turned into a solo game that you saw other people online. The only time people grouped was for raids. I know I do not speak for the world, for me personally though team oriented play is always more fun than solo play.

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56 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

 

 I think everyone can agree that the single most frustrating mode to play in this game is random battles.

 

Sometimes Ranked can be even more frustrating...

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2 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I think there are a lot of people who only want to play solo. The anti social types who only care for themselves. All they care about is personal stats and griefing other players. In Dungeons and Dragons online, there was NO SOLO content. You had to group to do basic quests. They were 6 man groups, you could pug or do it with guildies. It was the BEST MMO environment I ever played. Than they released solo content so a solo player could grind to max level without having to group once. It KILLED the game in less than a year. Gone were the pugs and 6 man's, you would sit in cue for 40 minutes or more. DDO turned into a solo game that you saw other people online. The only time people grouped was for raids. I know I do not speak for the world, for me personally though team oriented play is always more fun than solo play.

That's cool. The reason I inquired is that the large number of solo players seems to indicate that solo play is what is keeping this game alive, not killing it.

Edited by cometguy
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35 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

 I think everyone can agree that the single most frustrating mode to play in this game is random battles. You can go from skunking an enemy team to getting skunked in back to back battles. You can have a match where the team communicates and works well together and then in the next match have a salt fest where you get cussed out for making a suggestion on strategy. That is the problem with randoms, they are just to random. In ANY MMO the WORST gaming experience is the pick up group, known as the PUG. PUG's and PUGGERS in general are just miserable which is why I can not seem to figure out why Wargaming has seemed to embrace this mode of game play as the centerpiece of their game. I would love to see large divisions enabled where I could play 12 man battles with my clan. Where communicating through teamspeak or discord replaces the toxic chat window. Yes there were clan battles but it was a horribly gimped version of play limiting the types of ships and numbers limiting the fun factor of that mode. Let us link multiple divisions together and drop, let us play with our friends instead of being forced into randoms for 12v12 battles. I know the anti social solo yolo players will throw a fit......but in reality it is those players who KILL MMO communities. Would certain clans dominate randoms with large divisions, or team play probably. However I would rather lose to a better team of players with my clan 10,000 times over than play a solo player game that you play online. 

There is a REASON why Wargaming has trouble retaining players. The Random battle environment just sucks there is no way around that. To keep people interested Wargaming has to continually introduce new toys and ship lines to distract the player from the fact that Random battles are just not that enjoyable.

 

There is a reason I played Age Of Conan for seven years. SWTOR for four, DDO for four. Raids were FUN and challenging. I made so many online friends that I still communicate with today. Stop focusing on digital toys to keep people interested and start getting team oriented play into this game and watch your player retention rate slowly increase.

I can only imagine how much fun a 12v12 team battle with no ship restrictions would be. 

I'm sorry, but everyone has a different "REASON" for retention issues.  And there's no single reason.

I remember back when Team Battles were a thing in WoWS, I got bored of the mode very, VERY quickly.  I remember because at the time (before official clans) our clan had a member who was super hot to constantly play team battles to the point of bordering on being obnoxious about it.  I personally found team battles boring as hell, because it was nothing but the same freaking ship, battle after battle after battle.  He enjoyed the team aspect.  I loathed the boredom.  Well, the clan ended up quickly playing team battles less and less because a lot more people had my opinion than his.

Moving on...

The original version of Team Battles in WoWS failed, IMO, because it was tied to a competitive ranking setup.  If team battles had been formatted more like tank companies in WoT, i.e. largely pickup teams who would play for fun not in a structured competitive mode, they might have had a much better chance of succeeding.

I think that what WoWS needs, if it wants this sort of thing, is to have team battles where there are 2-4 different tiers, same as tank companies in WoT.  You could have tier 4 team battles, tier 6 team battles, tier 8 team battles, and tier 10 team battles.  Team size would be fixed.  Maybe 8 ships for tier 4's and 6's, and 12 ships for tier 8's and 10's.  These teams would be free form.  Anyone could join, though the team commander could decide who he accepts on the team, which could mean that you only accept clan mates, or just total pick up teams.  in fact, this sort of format was great for clan recruitment because you could play with a potential clan mate in a more structured environment (than randoms) and see if the person was capable of working in a team environment or not, as well as his talent level.  And you could get a feel for the person and whether they might be a good fit for your clan.

 

Another format that could be interesting would be like the WoT mode literally called "Team Battles" where you had a limited number of "tier points" to form a team.  (Tier points: a tier 8 ship would be 8 tier points.)  This mode wasn't totally free form.  IIRC, it was 42 tier points with a max tier of tier 8, so you might end up with 5 t8's and 2 t1's (which would be used as scouts... almost like they were jeeps on a battlefield full of tanks).  or you might see a mix of tier 8's, 7's, and 6's to get to the 42 tier points.  You would rarely see 7 tier 6's, because the tier 6's would have been massacred by a team of 5 t8's (and the 2 t1's).  Anyways, I could see a format similar to this working as well, if you wanted to see a little more tier variety that you wouldn't see in the "tank company" mode I described in the previous paragraph.  Personally, I thought that the Tank Company format was more popular, since all tanks were of the same tier.

 

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5 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I think there are a lot of people who only want to play solo. The anti social types who only care for themselves. All they care about is personal stats and griefing other players. In Dungeons and Dragons online, there was NO SOLO content. You had to group to do basic quests. They were 6 man groups, you could pug or do it with guildies. It was the BEST MMO environment I ever played. Than they released solo content so a solo player could grind to max level without having to group once. It KILLED the game in less than a year. Gone were the pugs and 6 man's, you would sit in cue for 40 minutes or more. DDO turned into a solo game that you saw other people online. The only time people grouped was for raids. I know I do not speak for the world, for me personally though team oriented play is always more fun than solo play.

Belthorian, this is EXTREMELY offensive.  EXTREMELY!!!  Not everyone is a raging extrovert.  The way you put it, you make all introverts sound like potential mass murderers.  And I find that thoroughly disgusting and offensive.

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1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

I think everyone can agree that the single most frustrating mode to play in this game is random battles.

Think again.  I don't believe this at all.

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Well "Team Battles" as opposed to Clan Wars was tried here in WOWS and it was one of the more impressive crash and burns the game has seen.  They ran one season of it and shut it down.  They've since put their energy into Clan Wars and have been hedging it with certain elements to assure it's success and it seems to be working well for those players in clans who can field a 7v7 team. 

I think if Team Battles had worked out better, we'd have that mode and Clan Wars but that wasn't the case, so we don't.  It is, still, a battle option which shows in the system even if there has been no season for a couple of years.  I suppose it's possible that some time in the future they may revise and reactivate that option, but until Clan Wars is firmly established and WG determines there is a need for another similar game mode (that won't detract from Clan Wars) I wouldn't hold my breath. 

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1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

 I think everyone can agree that the single most frustrating mode to play in this game is random battles.

Nope, the most frustrating mode is Ranked Battles wherein the members of your team fight as if they were in Random Battles.  That is true and utter frustration. 

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2 minutes ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

Nope, the most frustrating mode is Ranked Battles wherein the members of your team fight as if they were in Random Battles.  That is true and utter frustration. 

lol I agree with you sir so let me change my position a bit. The frustrating thing for me is the inability to really communicate with my teammates in whatever mode I play. Sure I can get basic message out in chat but I wish voice comms worked in randoms with the ability to mute specific people.

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12 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I think there are a lot of people who only want to play solo. The anti social types who only care for themselves. All they care about is personal stats and griefing other players. In Dungeons and Dragons online, there was NO SOLO content. You had to group to do basic quests. They were 6 man groups, you could pug or do it with guildies. It was the BEST MMO environment I ever played. Than they released solo content so a solo player could grind to max level without having to group once. It KILLED the game in less than a year. Gone were the pugs and 6 man's, you would sit in cue for 40 minutes or more. DDO turned into a solo game that you saw other people online. The only time people grouped was for raids. I know I do not speak for the world, for me personally though team oriented play is always more fun than solo play.

I think you miss a lot of the point here. 

Most players in Random Battles are not playing alone or solo at all.  Even if there is no communication, players for the most part are moving together and largely fighting as groups.  For me, in Random, I look at what the ships of my side are doing, what I think needs to be done to win the game and then deploy my ship in a way that best supports what the rest of the team is doing.  Sure, it would be more effective team play if players communicated more and everyone could get on the same page, but to imply that Random is nothing but selfish yolo players simply is a wildly inaccurate assumption. Whether you can see it or not, there are a lot of players out there who are in it to win it. 

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15 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I think there are a lot of people who only want to play solo. The anti social types who only care for themselves. All they care about is personal stats and griefing other players. In Dungeons and Dragons online, there was NO SOLO content. You had to group to do basic quests. They were 6 man groups, you could pug or do it with guildies. It was the BEST MMO environment I ever played. Than they released solo content so a solo player could grind to max level without having to group once. It KILLED the game in less than a year. Gone were the pugs and 6 man's, you would sit in cue for 40 minutes or more. DDO turned into a solo game that you saw other people online. The only time people grouped was for raids. I know I do not speak for the world, for me personally though team oriented play is always more fun than solo play.

I love solo play honestly nothing more satisfying than wrecking a trip div by yourself could care less how teammates in a random battle  work together

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Imagine how great it could be if random's had actual voice comm's. Ahh But sadly then you realize how horrible it'd be based on the player base's behavior in chat.....

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5 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

lol I agree with you sir so let me change my position a bit. The frustrating thing for me is the inability to really communicate with my teammates in whatever mode I play. Sure I can get basic message out in chat but I wish voice comms worked in randoms with the ability to mute specific people.

I think you can get voice comms working in Random.  I don't use them but I do believe the capability is there.  I'm not sure about being able to mute other players but I'm pretty sure you can speak to them.  

Oh, and it's Miss not sir but glad you agree with me.  :Smile_honoring:

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11 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Belthorian, this is EXTREMELY offensive.  EXTREMELY!!!  Not everyone is a raging extrovert.  The way you put it, you make all introverts sound like potential mass murderers.  And I find that thoroughly disgusting and offensive.

I am apologize if you took that as my meaning, it was not my intent to convey that. I am reflecting on my experiences in games like Battlefield where people refuse to join divisions. Refuse to play the objective. The only thing they care about is sniping people and knifing them. They don't care if they win or lose a match as long as their individual stats are good. I am talking about players that I have run across in MMO's where the quest is to farm X number of monsters in a specific area. You go to that area and there is someone on the same quest. Option one is you can group up and complete the quest together in a short time. Option two is to tell the other player I only play solo and than have to fight for every monster killed and take four times the time required to complete the quest. 

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36 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

Yes there are but they were stripped down versions of random battles. Limited to one battleship, no carriers. I would like to see a full 12v12 mode.

They are stripped down versions because if they weren't the wait for a battle would be way too long; many clans have issues getting enough players to play the stripped down versions. And there are limits for the sake of balance.

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4 minutes ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

I think you can get voice comms working in Random.  I don't use them but I do believe the capability is there.  I'm not sure about being able to mute other players but I'm pretty sure you can speak to them.  

Oh, and it's Miss not sir but glad you agree with me.  :Smile_honoring:

It only works in randoms for people in your division, not your team. I know it would be abused because everyone on the internet is a tough guy. Maybe I am just naive to believe that if people could communicate in randoms easier there would be less toxicity. I tend to give people the benifit of the doubt even though life lessons have shown me that in general people suck lol.

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4 minutes ago, Umikami said:

They are stripped down versions because if they weren't the wait for a battle would be way too long; many clans have issues getting enough players tp ply the stripped down versions. And there are limits for the sake of balance.

You are probably right, but I can dream right :Smile_Default:

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1 minute ago, Belthorian said:

You are probably right, but I can dream right :Smile_Default:

All day; every day; till the cows come home!

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5 minutes ago, Umikami said:

All day; every day; till the cows come home!

 I think it would be cool to live on a farm with some cows. I couldn't bring myself to kill them though. They would be just like big dogs to me lol.

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10 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

 I think it would be cool to live on a farm with some cows. I couldn't bring myself to kill them though. They would be just like big dogs to me lol.

My Dad tells a story of a turkey he bought for Thanksgiving dinner, which my Mother named ... they had it for like 6 years.

And, yeah ... there ain't nuthin' like a farm.

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