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dimzzy

Ashitaka vs Scharnhorst: just unfair

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They are both tier 7 BBs, except that one of them is much better than another one. Unless I miss something Ashitaka has no noticeable advantages over Scharnhorst while Scharnhorst has torps, spotter plane and much better armor. Now here is my question: how they are supposed to be balanced? Just what exactly is the thinking here? It seems that people were complaining about weak Ashitaka for quite a while and WG decided to sell it again without even slightest buffs. Why such sloppy attitude towards ship balancing?

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Arent the guns on the Ashitaka decent? They are 16". Or are they different from the Amagi and Kii? 

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Maybe your post is just a result of short term frustration, but the glaringly obvious difference is gun caliber...that's a big deal. Ashitaka drivers can enjoy 16" guns in T5 MM. In Scharnhorst you have to think about all your targets and what ammo you're shooting at them and when.

Edited by HeathenForay

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Ashitaka is an Amagi. Not much wrong with the guns. They are fine.

 

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Ashitaka, you have to think about your angles too.  You can't go running broadside to stuff like the Scharnhorst, also fight in the -15-16 range against a Scharnhorst.  And be willing to burn it to the keel if necessary if he is nose or tail on don't be afraid to go to HE and burn some of his health off.  When he gives you the braodside, aim at the deck line.  

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STOP BRAWLING GERMAN BATTLESHIPS GOD DAMNIT

Edited by The_first_harbinger
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17 minutes ago, HeathenForay said:

Maybe your post is just a result of short term frustration, but the glaringly obvious difference is gun caliber...that's a big deal. Ashitaka drivers can enjoy 16" guns in T5 MM. In Scharnhorst you have to think about all your targets and what ammo you're shooting at them and when.

 

No. You always fire ap in scharnhorst. The HE is too crappy to ever let it leave your barrels.

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Ah, that's true about the guns. The problem though is that Scharnhorst can go closer to the target so guns become quite punchy; Ashitaka has to keep distance which means that your guns are doing less damage on average. This effectively balances the guns. So far I've played only several games in Ashitaka but I don't feel the power of these guns; it's not like US BBs that can wipe out enemy ship with a single shot. It just feels like a constant struggle to end game with 100k damage.

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1 minute ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

 

No. You always fire ap in scharnhorst. The HE is too crappy to ever let it leave your barrels.

That's also my impression--you just aim at superstructure when the hull is too tough.

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4 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

STOP BRAWLING GERMAN BATTLESHIPS GOD DAMNIT

Why not? Scharnhorst could do it rather well under certain circumstances )))

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6 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

STOP BRAWLING GERMAN BATTLESHIPS GOD DAMNIT

1kxup2.jpg.d04e3e45ad047517cbd413b66c039775.jpg

Edited by Gerbertz

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8 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

Why not? Scharnhorst could do it rather well under certain circumstances )))

I don't think I have ever heard anyone who has Scharnhorst say don't brawl with her. That is one of her biggest strengths. 

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Why such sloppy attitude towards ship balancing?

I believe WOWS works hard to balance the ships. Granted, sometimes they do need to buff or nerf a ship.

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3 minutes ago, dmckay said:

I don't think I have ever heard anyone who has Scharnhorst say don't brawl with her. That is one of her biggest strengths. 

What that person is saying is: Stop brawling against Germans as that's their biggest strength. You're supposed to avoid being in brawling range so that Germans lose their biggest advantage against you. Ashitaka can kill Scharnhorst just fine, as long as it doesn't go into brawling range.

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I don't think I have ever heard anyone who has Scharnhorst say don't brawl with her. That is one of her biggest strengths.

That seems to be true with most German BB's. But my snail pace slow Colorado 16" guns have given a couple of Scharnhorst a lot of grief from longer ranges in randoms.

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28 minutes ago, dmckay said:

I don't think I have ever heard anyone who has Scharnhorst say don't brawl with her. That is one of her biggest strengths. 

Agreed. It's really her only strength. Why would someone snipe at long rang in a BB with 11" guns? Plus long range just invites shells to travel over your turtleback into the citadel. 

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1 hour ago, alexf24 said:

Ashitaka is an Amagi. Not much wrong with the guns. They are fine.

 

Ashitaka doesn't have Amagi's guns. She has Mutsu's guns. They aren't "fine." They are actually astonishingly lousy for 16" guns, but they are still 16" guns and she has 10 of them (on a hull made of 1920s wet toilet paper.)  That being said (to the OP) Ashitaka is quite capable of taking on Sharnhorst if the driver knows what he or she is doing. Scharnhorst is also quite capable of taking on Ashitaka if the driver knows what he or she is doing. They are balanced well enough against each other. 

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The difference is that Ashitaka is god awful, while Scharnhorst is good. It’s really that simple. Ashitaka relies on the gimmick of having big guns, and trades everything for it (including, you know, reliable AP shells), while Scharnhorst is more competent all around, with cruiser-like guns that make it rather punchy despite the lack of alpha damage. 

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18 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

Agreed. It's really her only strength. Why would someone snipe at long rang in a BB with 11" guns? Plus long range just invites shells to travel over your turtleback into the citadel. 

Oh she is very good also at killing cruisers. She can delete them pretty quick at medium range. DDs a bit tougher and can be hard to hit. They often drive me crazy when they got a good skipper. Right at the moment I am ready to fire at them they disappear.....grrrrrr.  Like I said I tend not to chase them around unless there are several in the match (hopefully my DDs and cruisers will kill em) but many players love killing DDs with her. That's good.  I like them gone. But my thing is getting cruisers and BBs....generally.  Depends.

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1 hour ago, Tzarevitch said:

Ashitaka doesn't have Amagi's guns. She has Mutsu's guns. They aren't "fine." They are actually astonishingly lousy for 16" guns, but they are still 16" guns and she has 10 of them (on a hull made of 1920s wet toilet paper.)  That being said (to the OP) Ashitaka is quite capable of taking on Sharnhorst if the driver knows what he or she is doing. Scharnhorst is also quite capable of taking on Ashitaka if the driver knows what he or she is doing. They are balanced well enough against each other. 

Agree with all above.

The frustration of those guns...oh my!!!  Love the ship's lines...but geez....I feel like I'm shooting spit balls.  I'll get a salvo off thinking...looking good...looking good...tink tink tink tink tink.  

But yeah....don't get close to a Scharn (which I also play).   All the Scharns' gotta do is drive right at you.  Overmatch is a factor, but a good approach angle will work there.  To avoid the torps the Ash has to turn to run...and give up a broadside...which the Scharn can slice at short range even with those 11 inchers.  And if you don't turn, Scharn can just drive right by and unload torps...and then either circle and pummel or swing away and torp from the other side.  Suffice to say, an Ash in close with the Scharn...just no. 

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4 hours ago, Woofship said:

What that person is saying is: Stop brawling against Germans as that's their biggest strength. You're supposed to avoid being in brawling range so that Germans lose their biggest advantage against you. Ashitaka can kill Scharnhorst just fine, as long as it doesn't go into brawling range.

It can, but not necessarily. Better guns neutralized by better armor so at long range let's say they are even but at close range Ashitaka loses. Again, I don't think they are balanced.

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3 hours ago, SkaerKrow said:

The difference is that Ashitaka is god awful, while Scharnhorst is good. It’s really that simple. Ashitaka relies on the gimmick of having big guns, and trades everything for it (including, you know, reliable AP shells), while Scharnhorst is more competent all around, with cruiser-like guns that make it rather punchy despite the lack of alpha damage. 

^^^ that's my impression so far.

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4 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

STOP BRAWLING GERMAN BATTLESHIPS GOD DAMNIT

yup...two ships with totally different playing style requirements.  How comes' my Ford F450 doesn't do the same things as my Porsche 911???  Whhhaaaaa.....WarGaming please fix!!! 

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2 hours ago, Colonel_Lonewolf said:

Balanced?  You know some countries just make better stuff than others.............  Keep it real.

It's a game; real stuff and in-game stuff only roughly match. Your point is meaningless, sorry.

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