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Reymu

Ognevoi - Udaloi - Grozovoi builds

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Going to train up another captain on these, ending with Grozo. However, with exception of Oggy, haven't played nor seen them much at high tiers, so limited to WOWS Wikia. Apparently Udaloi lends itself well to run 'n gun, whereas Grozo can choose between stealth torp/AA DD or gunboat builds. Ognevoi seems mostly to bait reds into firing at me as well as surprise torping.

 

Atm my captain is at 10 w/ PT/LS/SI. Not sure whether to get CE, AFT, or BFT next (leaning BFT since MB is bread and butter). I'm also wondering what Grozo needs to pose a credible threat to CVs (simply, planes linger over me, they gradually die off. I've tested Hindenburg with just AA range module and MAA, and it reliably bats down even T10 planes given enough time). Cause if full AA build is necessary, then forget it.

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I would go up with the yellow boxes (PM, LS, SE, CE) then go orange boxes (RL, BFT, EM), you can sub RL for AFT if you so desire.  The yellow boxes are standard dd builds (Priority Target over Preventative Maintenance if you play the Khab, otherwise I recommend Preventative Maintenance).  Radio Location does 2 things:  allows you to move your very slow turret traverse towards the enemy AND allows you to hunt down enemy dd's.  I think of the Russian dd's as dd hunters so this is a must for me.  Basic Fire Training and Expert Marksmanship enhance your guns.  

You could sub the Radio Locator for Advance Fire Training- but in my opinion the Grozovoi is just not that good at extreme range damage like the Khaba is, the Khaba dodges better whereas the Grozovoi is going to hide behind smoke/islands more.  So the Blue option below just isn't my style with this boat.  You will see people do this for a pure AA build though...

Grozovoi build.png

Edited by Torpin
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1 hour ago, Torpin said:

I would go up with the yellow boxes (PM, LS, SE, CE) then go orange boxes (RL, BFT, EM), you can sub RL for AFT if you so desire.  The yellow boxes are standard dd builds (Priority Target over Preventative Maintenance if you play the Khab, otherwise I recommend Preventative Maintenance).  Radio Location does 2 things:  allows you to move your very slow turret traverse towards the enemy AND allows you to hunt down enemy dd's.  I think of the Russian dd's as dd hunters so this is a must for me.  Basic Fire Training and Expert Marksmanship enhance your guns.  

You could sub the Radio Locator for Advance Fire Training- but in my opinion the Grozovoi is just not that good at extreme range damage like the Khaba is, the Khaba dodges better whereas the Grozovoi is going to hide behind smoke/islands more.  So the Blue option below just isn't my style with this boat.  You will see people do this for a pure AA build though...

Grozovoi build.png

There are two things you are not taking note off. The turret turn for this line is more than sufficient at 9 seconds for 180 degrees (Ognevoi and Udaloi) and 10 seconds for 180 degrees (Grozovoi). Expert Marksman would simply be wasted points. I would use Adrenaline Rush instead in the context of your build. And while Grozovoi doesn't have the 43 knot speed of Khabarovsk, it is still fast at 39.5 knots, and with a speed flag easily over 40 knots. You can still use it easily as a run and gun destroyer if you want so AFT is actually very useful.

11 hours ago, Reymu said:

Going to train up another captain on these, ending with Grozo. However, with exception of Oggy, haven't played nor seen them much at high tiers, so limited to WOWS Wikia. Apparently Udaloi lends itself well to run 'n gun, whereas Grozo can choose between stealth torp/AA DD or gunboat builds. Ognevoi seems mostly to bait reds into firing at me as well as surprise torping.

 

Atm my captain is at 10 w/ PT/LS/SI. Not sure whether to get CE, AFT, or BFT next (leaning BFT since MB is bread and butter). I'm also wondering what Grozo needs to pose a credible threat to CVs (simply, planes linger over me, they gradually die off. I've tested Hindenburg with just AA range module and MAA, and it reliably bats down even T10 planes given enough time). Cause if full AA build is necessary, then forget it.

Are you keeping all three ships? If so, are you looking to train a permanent captain for each ship? Or just one captain you are moving up to the Grozovoi?

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34 minutes ago, Lightninger said:

And while Grozovoi doesn't have the 43 knot speed of Khabarovsk, it is still fast at 39.5 knots, and with a speed flag easily over 40 knots. You can still use it easily as a run and gun destroyer if you want so AFT is actually very useful.

IMHO if you want to do a run and gun you need to be in the Khaba...  The Khaba has much better armor and a heal that the Grozovoi just doesn't come close to.  The Grozovoi has to be more the traditional dd of hide and shoot from cover, it just can't tank like the Khaba.

And I would still argue for Expert Marksmanship because I like keeping my guns on target when wiggling...  :)

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Just now, Torpin said:

IMHO if you want to do a run and gun you need to be in the Khaba...  The Khaba has much better armor and a heal that the Grozovoi just doesn't come close to.  The Grozovoi has to be more the traditional dd of hide and shoot from cover, it just can't tank like the Khaba.

And I would still argue for Expert Marksmanship because I like keeping my guns on target when wiggling...  :)

Of course if your plan is to simply run and gun, you would take Khabarovsk, but the Grozovoi is still more than capable of doing it as well. And no, do not ever, ever take EM on Ognevoi, Udaloi, or Grozovoi. It is a complete waste of points. Those guns are more than capable of staying on target even for newbie knife fighters.

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Just for comparison so you understand why you don't need EM.

Turret turn rates
Benson: 5.29 seconds for 180 degrees
Ognevoi: 9 seconds for 180 degrees
Kiev: 18.56 seconds for 180 degrees

Fletcher: 5.29 seconds for 180 degrees
Udaloi: 9 seconds for 180 degrees
Tashkent: 18.56 seconds for 180 degrees

Gearing: 7.2 seconds for 180 degrees
Grozovoi: 10 seconds for 180 degrees
Khabarovsk: 9 seconds for 180 degrees

I don't even take EM on my Kiev either. 18.56 seconds is more than capable of staying on target in a knife fight while dodging shots. And the only reason I take EM on Tashkent is because I use MBM3 on it which drops the turret turn to 20.3 seconds, otherwise it would not need it either.

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Well, first four points are obvious for me: Priority Target (always!), Last Stand, SE, CE. That's my mainstay on all stealthy DDs and I would never replace those for all the credits in the world. While Preventative Maintenance is nice, it's only useful  if you're actually getting hit. Priority Target tells you how many unspotted ships are about to shoot at you and can tell you quickly if it's time to get out of dodge in a hurry before that happens.

Afterwards, AFT and BFT for sure on these. I do like RPF a lot, but RU DDs have amazing high speed guns and can nail ships from far away. If I am not mistaken, Grozovoi guns are the fastest in the game and can put Khab's to shame in how easy it is to hit targets at max range. Also, Grozovoi has great long range AA and AFT extends the range on that too. BFT is no a brainer ... 10% faster rate of fire and 20% better AA on an AA oriented DD. Duh.

As for the last two points ... I'm a bit on the fence here. For the tech tree DDs from tier 8 onwards, EM is really not needed. On the other hand, if you use your captain on Leningrad and Gremy, it very much is. But those are the last two points, so i'll worry about it when my captain reaches his 19th point which should take a while.

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1 hour ago, Lightninger said:

There are two things you are not taking note off. The turret turn for this line is more than sufficient at 9 seconds for 180 degrees (Ognevoi and Udaloi) and 10 seconds for 180 degrees (Grozovoi). Expert Marksman would simply be wasted points. I would use Adrenaline Rush instead in the context of your build. And while Grozovoi doesn't have the 43 knot speed of Khabarovsk, it is still fast at 39.5 knots, and with a speed flag easily over 40 knots. You can still use it easily as a run and gun destroyer if you want so AFT is actually very useful.

Are you keeping all three ships? If so, are you looking to train a permanent captain for each ship? Or just one captain you are moving up to the Grozovoi?

No, I usually sell after reaching next tier. Bismarck and Kiev are two of the few ships I kept after grinding them.

 

56 minutes ago, Lightninger said:

Of course if your plan is to simply run and gun, you would take Khabarovsk, but the Grozovoi is still more than capable of doing it as well. And no, do not ever, ever take EM on Ognevoi, Udaloi, or Grozovoi. It is a complete waste of points. Those guns are more than capable of staying on target even for newbie knife fighters.

That has me wondering if it's worth considering torp/MB hybrid build, get BFT and put torp module in 6th slot, but sounds better to go pure MB since Grozovoi isn't exactly built around her torpedoes.

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My Grozovoi has a gunboat/AA build. 

PM

LS

SE

CE

AFT

AR

BFT (still working, 18 pts) 

 

IMO this build is good because favours the strenghts of Grozovoi, Guns and AA.

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14 minutes ago, Reymu said:

No, I usually sell after reaching next tier. Bismarck and Kiev are two of the few ships I kept after grinding them.

 

That has me wondering if it's worth considering torp/MB hybrid build, get BFT and put torp module in 6th slot, but sounds better to go pure MB since Grozovoi isn't exactly built around her torpedoes.

Well if you like Russian destroyers a lot, consider keeping the Udaloi. It is my second favorite ship after the Leningrad. And for myself, I have two captain builds I have developed for the Ognevoi to Grozovoi line.

Gunboat Build: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0100000000000011010010000000100119
AA Build: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000000001000010000000110119

If you're not concerned much with maximizing AA, the gunboat build already gives you BFT and AFT boosts to your AA, and with the defensive fire makes you an annoyance to CVs. It boosts your health, gun range, gun reload for maximum gunboat effectiveness whether knife fighting or annoying cruisers or battleships from range.

The AA build is obviously to be maximum pest to CVs in games, particularly useful when you division with someone running a CV. It is really fun to do a AA troll division of say Midway + AA Minotaur + AA build captain Grozovoi. You still get BFT and AFT to boost your guns as well, but no SE for extra health and no AR for additional decrease in reload times as it is a very specialized captain for purposes of maximum AA ability.

For the primary captain build I use for each ship in the line, it is as follows:
Ognevoi: Gunboat (primary), AA (secondary)
Udaloi: Gunboat (primary), AA (secondary)
Grozovoi: AA (primary), Gunboat (secondary)

Of course, if you're division with a CV, you would take the AA captain build if you have both built up already.

Edited by Lightninger
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2 hours ago, Lightninger said:

Just for comparison so you understand why you don't need EM.

Gearing: 7.2 seconds for 180 degrees
Grozovoi: 10 seconds for 180 degrees
Khabarovsk: 9 seconds for 180 degrees

I don't even take EM on my Kiev either. 18.56 seconds is more than capable of staying on target in a knife fight while dodging shots. And the only reason I take EM on Tashkent is because I use MBM3 on it which drops the turret turn to 20.3 seconds, otherwise it would not need it either.

Adrenaline Rush is viable especially if you have Radio Locator- you already should be in a position that your guns aren't traversing to get on target.  The reason I say Expert Marksmanship isn't just the turret traverse speed (which is 3s behind the Gearing) but because the Grozovoi is considerably more sluggish already then her peers:

                                            Gearing                              Groz                       Z-52                     Shimi

Rudder Shift                        3.3s                                    4.6s                      4.5s                          3s

Turning Radius                  640m                                  720m                    700m                   690m

 

Combine that with the worst turret traverse speed besides the Shimi, and you have a boat that has a hard time dodging and keeping on target compared to the Gearing/Yueyang etc.

 

Edited by Torpin

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17 minutes ago, Torpin said:

Adrenaline Rush is viable especially if you have Radio Locator- you already should be in a position that your guns aren't traversing to get on target.  The reason I say Expert Marksmanship isn't just the turret traverse speed (which is 3s behind the Gearing) but because the Grozovoi is considerably more sluggish already then her peers:

                                            Gearing                              Groz                       Z-52                     Shimi

Rudder Shift                        3.3s                                    4.6s                      4.5s                          3s

Turning Radius                  640m                                  720m                    700m                   690m

 

Combine that with the worst turret traverse speed besides the Shimi, and you have a boat that has a hard time dodging and keeping on target compared to the Gearing/Yueyang etc.

 

You will never be able to out turn your turrets and go off target in a Grozovoi in the middle of a knife fight even. Have you actually played a Grozovoi before? EM will never be needed for Grozovoi and you are wasting your points if you ever take it.

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1 hour ago, Xlap said:

My Grozovoi has a gunboat/AA build. 

PM

LS

SE

CE

AFT

AR

BFT (still working, 18 pts) 

 

IMO this build is good because favours the strenghts of Grozovoi, Guns and AA.

 

Still playing around with it, but I'm also starting to hone in on this exact build.

 

I prefer PT over PM, but I think that's a personal preference.

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2 hours ago, pikohan said:

 

I prefer PT over PM, but I think that's a personal preference.

I prefer PM because i feel that every single time im spotted, most ship (if not all) in range target me. But i can see PT working too.  

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37 minutes ago, Xlap said:

I prefer PM because i feel that every single time im spotted, most ship (if not all) in range target me. But i can see PT working too.  

True, but PT allows you to see *how many* ships are in range and have line of sight to you. If I see only 1 or 2 guns turned on me, I'm not worried. If I see a half dozen, I turn right the frak around. 

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