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dukerustfield

Meta Killing. The Asashio sobs

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I'm not a good DD player. I'm a lousy one. I go to caps. I contest. I scout. I do everything that my BBing-main self would want a DD to do. But then I get obliterated by enemy cruisers, multi-DDs, or beat up enough from fights I'm gimped. "I need intelligence data," I've taken to mean, "I want you to scout, but I won't shoot anything dangerous to you if there's something easy for me to hit instead." And radar is given out like spoiled candy at the Willy Wonka factory. Again, getting this out of the way: I'm a bad DD player.

Anyway, it's been a LONG while since I've seen lots of cruisers. BB meta was strong. Even DDs were having a hard time because of ubiquitous radar. Lots of BB slugfests.

I got an Asashio. It really suits, SO FAR, my playstyle of an aggressive DD. Not stalanium RU aggressive. But going out and hunting. Then I noticed, about half my games have 3 BBs and mass lists of cruisers. I'm hoping this is only ranked season mucking with things. But I haven't seen anything like this in probably years. Back when  Shimas could poop out undodgeable walls of skill and there were only IJN and USN in the game.

I don't mind helping balance the meta, but I keep getting in games where I'm basically just a slow scout.

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This boat is so easily countered by players with a working brain, for example a game in mine on weekend the 4 bbs that we’re pushing a flank simply turned and went the other way once they knew I was on the same flank. This was obviously passed around to the red CV as his planes either spotted me or my torps rest of the game, I was lucky to score 20k with my guns by games end and it was a loss

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I have had several ranked games with 2 dds both Asashios while the other team had two bensons, Loyang, or z23 combos. 

Lost all of those games. Two useless ships. Hell if they would just spot it would be awesome

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2 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

5aea7c4fb5dc0_Asashio130k.jpg.c1fc2e14e0f28a6a6fcf3f1160c4bb1a.jpg

Touché 

should have said captains not using the ship to her strengths. Without exception any ship driven well and played to her strengths is a good bote. Sadly that hasn’t been my experience with this boat, but I’d love to have you on my team

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1 minute ago, wstugamd said:

Touché 

should have said captains not using the ship to her strengths. Without exception any ship driven well and played to her strengths is a good bote. Sadly that hasn’t been my experience with this boat, but I’d love to have you on my team

Too early to say as I have bombed in many battles too (some 12 battles so far), but when it goes well the boat is stellar. But yes captain skills are a must--I have 12-pt and I'm also using Torpedo Acceleration - 16km range @ 72 knots. They come in pretty fast and my detection is 5.4. Great spotter and good later game cap-stealer too.

Here's another good one just so you don't think it was a one-off:

Asashio.jpg.48135c47f4f4525492c3de90e66b696b.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Too early to say as I have bombed in many battles too (some 12 battles so far), but when it goes well the boat is stellar. But yes captain skills are a must--I have 12-pt and I'm also using Torpedo Acceleration - 16km range @ 72 knots. They come in pretty fast and my detection is 5.4. Great spotter and good later game cap-stealer too.

Here's another good one just so you don't think it was a one-off:

Asashio.jpg.48135c47f4f4525492c3de90e66b696b.jpg

You know your boat and what to do with it. Keep up the good work and hope I see you in game

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5 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

You know your boat and what to do with it. Keep up the good work and hope I see you in game

Hey you too. :cap_like:

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My guess is that this is a combination of two factors, OP: First, it's ranked season so the random queues are going to be wonky. Cruisers may be dominating the random battle lists in terms of numbers, but so far in ranked they're an endangered species with battleships and destroyers flooding the lists. Second, Asashio only recently came out. People are still learning her and how to counter her, plus she already had the fear factor of being "Death, destroyer of BBs" months out from her release. Battleships are her prey, battleships that don't know her yet and see her as the absolute worst possible thing, so their reaction?

Give it time, once people see what all the fuss is about things should settle down.

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Yeah. I've seen BBs that know an Asashio is around simply cower. I think it really is very destructive. But if there aren't BBs, it's very junk. However, I scored my best game ever in it.

akXSWwZ.jpg

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13 hours ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Too early to say as I have bombed in many battles too

I think Asashio will be a very feast of famine boat. The fewer BBs in the game, the less this DD can contribute. If the BBs are savvy and screened, not much an Asashio can do that another DD couldn't do better. Those games with lots of potato BBs, the ship will excel. It is also a DD that most other DDs and CAs will love to chase down. Its guns aren't toothless, but not great either.

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For the most part the IJN DD line is a one trick pony, with some mild gunnery thrown in.

The Asashio strikes me as a half trick pony,  with some mild gunnery thrown in.

If it works for you, have at it.

 

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The more time passes the worse Asashio will get, people will learn to watch out for the torps and avoid her.

It was a bad idea by WG, should've at least given her PA DW torps so that you could target cruisers as well.

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She is an experiment by WG. They have tried to introduce a hard counter to a thorny problem, BB overpopulation. They are trying to reduce the number of BBs without putting caps on the number allowed in any individual game. They do not want people to have to wait in queue... they just want the percentage of BBs to go down.

She is a specialized stealth IJN DD with DWT. She can kill big ships at phenomenal ranges, but in compensation she cannot kill cruisers (none of the DWT boats can kill DDs). She plays like a stealth IJN DD. None of them are great at bullying a Cap. Stealth IJN DDs have always been feast or famine, this boat is no different.

The main difference is that the "potential" of what she can do really puts the other team on edge. The Reds want to know where she is and will do anything to try to kill her. She can be countered by gun boat DDs, like any other Stealth IJN DD, but God help you if your teams DDs get killed early, and the other side has an Asashio. 

The first day she was out I was in a game that had two Asashios and a Kagero on our side and four assorted DDs on the Red team. One of our Asashios headed for the map edge.... where a CL and DD were waiting for him. He got killed about 3 minutes in. I followed the 2nd Asashio up the middle (in a Mogami). I killed a DD he spotted, and tagged another one hard that a BB polished off. The DD coming back from the edge also got polished off. Their 4th DD died early on (did not see). All of their DDs were dead.

The Asashio fired a load of torps across the path of the Reds advance down our right wing. When the DWT were spotted the BBS all turned as one, and headed back toward their spawn. Their cruisers had no choice but to turn as well. With all the BB's guns out of position to support as they turned. their cruisers got focused. The rout was on.

Working in conjunction with the Kagero the Asashio herded the BBs like cattle. The Asashio picked off three of them as they desperately twisted and turned to avoid phantom torpedoes. It was fascinating to watch.

Can they do that every game? No, but they can.... and eventually most of the BB mains will see it happen at least once. That is the seed that WG is trying to plant.

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On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 9:38 PM, Vaitmana said:

The more time passes the worse Asashio will get, people will learn to watch out for the torps and avoid her.

It was a bad idea by WG, should've at least given her PA DW torps so that you could target cruisers as well.

I don't mind DW torps but when it can't even hit a cruiser then it is just a scout that should run away.  Last several games I have played with it there have been very few BB's and lots of cruisers.  Seriously I want a refund for buying this.

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14 hours ago, Captain_Fishtickler said:

I don't mind DW torps but when it can't even hit a cruiser then it is just a scout that should run away.  Last several games I have played with it there have been very few BB's and lots of cruisers.  Seriously I want a refund for buying this.

Good thing about Asashio is it teaches you how to use IJN guns a lot

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To quote LWM in her review of Asashio:

"In this regard, Asashio is best compared to HMS Conqueror, the tier X Royal Navy battleship. Armed with twelve 419mm guns spamming nothing but HE shells, Conqueror often tops the team lists and gives the illusion of being an absolute rock-star. No enemy battleship can stand against Mega-Zao (thank you, Flamu, for that wonderful name). Similarly, no battleship stands any kind of chance against Asashio. Facing either of these monsters is not fun. However, they won't win as many games as their ridiculous damage totals indicate they should. Short of an early Devastating Strike or gutting several battleships at once, Asashio's influence is surprisingly limited.

I cannot stress this enough, and it will be difficult for some players to reconcile -- Asashio's armaments are as controversial and heavy-handed as Royal Navy battleship HE. They will seem to contribute far more to team success than they actually do. For some players that are just looking to get some big damage numbers, Asashio will be a dream boat. For those where winning is more important, Asashio is a liability if Matchmaker is unkind."

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honestly its all about peak time.

20180513013544_1.jpg?width=400&height=2020180513013557_1.jpg?width=400&height=2020180513013602_1.jpg?width=400&height=20

and somewhat competent teammates.

edit: when kitted for stealth it makes a amazing escort dd for dds. you can hop on cap reliably knowing you'll see them first. and start the smoke before they reach that insane 5.4 detection radius. then follow said dd if he tries to run away,  keeping it spotted the whole time. 

Edited by A_Wild_Kush
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Captain Rye on YouTube has a video of him doing very well in the Asashio, but it requires teamplay and a deft hand.

On the other hand, I was quite interested to come up against one at close range in my Anshan yesterday. The knowledge that there was absolutely no way he could torpedo me was a blessed relief. I eventually threw a full spread at him and wiped him out, but if he'd been a bit better on his torpedo beats or opened up with his guns a lot more, he might have got away with it.

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This is a good ship and here is a match I recorded after I just got it.

 

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Destroyers have always relied on being a boogeyman of sorts, but over time Battleships have lost that feeling when faced with destroyers. Asashio is just a throwback to when DD got in the head of enemy Battleships and freaked them out. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Canadatron said:

Destroyers have always relied on being a boogeyman of sorts, but over time Battleships have lost that feeling when faced with destroyers. Asashio is just a throwback to when DD got in the head of enemy Battleships and freaked them out. 

 

 

She reminds me of a pre-nerf Minekaze. Great concealment with long range torpedoes, creating a very comfortable stealth torpedo launch cushion. A quintessential IJN stealth DD. The BB's know they are there... but they do not know how close. Just knowing that it might be the Red's Asashio puts them on the defensive. 

I'm reminded of the Mythbuster episode where they tested to see if Elephants were really afraid of mice. Watching the enormous Elephants back away from the tiny mice was hilarious. An Asashio can blunt a flank push just by being spotted ahead of the oncoming ships.

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3 minutes ago, Skarp_AGW said:

An Asashio can blunt a flank push just by being spotted ahead of the oncoming ships.

Exactly, and it allows your cruisers and DD to work without an extra flank of BB AP to worry about. 

It works psychologically to influence the map if played correctly. Spot, get that spotted icon up on "safe" BB, herd them with those steel fish!

It'd be super strong against those last 2 full health BB that seem to frequent many games as the end is setting in.

 

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On 5/2/2018 at 11:10 PM, wstugamd said:

Touché 

should have said captains not using the ship to her strengths. Without exception any ship driven well and played to her strengths is a good bote. Sadly that hasn’t been my experience with this boat, but I’d love to have you on my team

Well said, and there are many battles where the ship fails, but this is usually due to smart play by not just the BBS but their DDs and radar cruisers. My larger feeling is that it adds a nice nuance to battles, just as CVs do. BBs will behave differently knowing a CV, or an Asashio is facing them.

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On 5/19/2018 at 6:02 AM, Canadatron said:

It'd be super strong against those last 2 full health BB that seem to frequent many games as the end is setting in.

Then again, if it is those last 2 full health CAs, Asashio is screwed. It was end game driving a Henri when an Asashio was spotted briefly before smoking, 11K away. Kick in the afterburners and charge! Got spotted, knew he was out of the smoke but had no worries. No need to dodge. Kept charging until I spotted him. Can't be that bold facing any other unseen DD without radar or hydro.

 

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