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Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu

How will the Tier 7 New Orleans (currently Astoria) compare to current Tier 7 Pensacola?

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Currently I do alright in the Tier 7 Pensacola, it's very fragile but when nobody's shooting at me I can pull off decent games. The guns are good, that AP really hurts against enemy cruisers (even when slightly angled) and I can set fires to battleships reliably. Once New Orleans replaces Pensacola at Tier 7, how would it stack up to the current Pensacola? Would it perform better, worse, or about the same? Would it require any changes in the play style? I know they have the same guns with the same characteristics so gunnery shouldn't be a problem as the arcs would still be relatively flat, and with the same penetration.

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59 minutes ago, Zionas said:

when nobody's shooting at me I can pull off decent games.

Ah, Pookie; when nobody is shooting at you ANYONE can pull off decent games!

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It would be hard to make it worse.

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Current Tier VIII New Orleans according to WoWS Wiki.

Last Devblog entry on Tier VII NOLA:

It will be worse than the current VII Pensacola.  Basically you are getting better stealth than what Pensacola had before in Tier VII.  You are also having worse guns than what VII Pensacola and VIII NOLA had.

 

VII NOLA will not access the upgraded 203mm/55 Mk.14 guns of VII Pensacola and VIII New Orleans.  You will basically be stuck with current VII STOCK Pensacola guns that shoot a little faster.  Another consequence of having the /50 guns as your "best" is that the turret traverse will be slower than the current /55 guns.  The /50 guns have a 45 second 180 degree traverse time, the /55 guns have 30 seconds.  Because F-ck You USN Cruisers.

 

VII NOLA will be slightly stealthier than current VII Pensacola.

 

You lose VIII NOLA's Radar but Pensacola never had Radar to begin with.

 

The downgraded guns have already ensured VII NOLA will be worse than even the current VII Pensacola.  Both ships have sh*t for armor, both ships have equivalent AA already, both ships in their VII format don't have Radar.  What VII NOLA will have are weaker, worse handling guns for slightly better stealth.  That's one helluva downgrade.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, Zionas said:

Currently I do alright in the Tier 7 Pensacola, it's very fragile but when nobody's shooting at me I can pull off decent games. The guns are good, that AP really hurts against enemy cruisers (even when slightly angled) and I can set fires to battleships reliably. Once New Orleans replaces Pensacola at Tier 7, how would it stack up to the current Pensacola? Would it perform better, worse, or about the same? Would it require any changes in the play style? I know they have the same guns with the same characteristics so gunnery shouldn't be a problem as the arcs would still be relatively flat, and with the same penetration.

Looks to me like NO will be a better armored version of Pensacola at T7. Makes sense to me as I know the grind through Pensacola and New Orleans felt like the same ship. Very similar stat wise between the departing T7 Pensacola and the incoming T7 New Orleans...

T7 Pensacola: (Fully Upgraded)

Survivability(HP): 34,300 HP 
Armor: 6-102MM / 7% Torpedo Damage Reduction
Maximum Speed: 32.5 knots
Rudder Shift: 5.6 seconds w/ SGM2
Turning Radius: 620m
Detection By Sea: 12.4km
Detection By Air: 7.8km
Detection When Firing In Smoke: 7.3km

Main Armament 1: 2X2 203MM (1 turret front/1 rear)
Main Armament 2: 2X3 203MM (1 turret front/1 rear)
Main Gun Range: 15.7km
Rate Of Fire(ROF)/Reload(RL): 4.0 shots per min ROF / 15.0 seconds RL
Shell Dispersion: 131m w/ ASM1
180 Turn Time: 30.0 sec

Shell Type:
Armor Piercing(AP) = 4600 damage
High Explosive(HE) = 2800 damage (14% chance of fire)

Anti Aircraft Defense(AA):
20MM = 17X1
40MM = 6X4
127MM = 8X1 (dual purpose)
AA Rating = 48

Available Consumables:

  1. Damage Control Party
  2. Def AA - or - Hydro
  3. Catapult Fighter

T7 New Orleans (Astoria): (Fully Upgraded using Extended Tech Tree Stats)

Survivability(HP): 35,000 HP 
Armor: 6-152MM / 4% Torpedo Damage Reduction
Maximum Speed: 32.5 knots
Rudder Shift: 5.52 seconds w/ SGM2
Turning Radius: 660m
Detection By Sea: 12.4km
Detection By Air: 7.5km
Detection When Firing In Smoke: 7.0km

Main Armament: 3X3 203MM (2 turrets front/1 rear)
Main Gun Range: 16.2km
Rate Of Fire(ROF)/Reload(RL): 4.62 shots per min ROF / 13.0 seconds RL
Shell Dispersion: 145m (135m w/ ASM1)
180 Turn Time: 27.7 sec

Shell Type:
Armor Piercing(AP) = 4600 damage
High Explosive(HE) = 2800 damage (14% chance of fire)


Anti Aircraft Defense(AA): 
20MM = 9X1
20MM = 17X2
40MM = 6X4
127MM = 8X1 (dual purpose)
AA Rating = 49

Available Consumables: (From Dev Blog)

  1. Damage Control Party
  2. Def AA - or - Hydro
  3. Catapult Fighter
Edited by AdmiralThunder
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16 minutes ago, Zionas said:

What will the T7 NO's shell dispersion be with ASM1? Also, it seems like it will retain the 8"/55 after all. I mean, the 8"/50 was a paper design.

Sorry I forgot to do that. ASM1 does -7% to dispersion so...

145 - 7% (10.15) = 134.85. So 135m w/ ASM1

The T7 New Orleans (Astoria) has the 203MM/55 Mk14 upgraded guns of the T7 Pensacola. Only 1 gun option for it with no upgrade like Pensacola had.

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It will be pretty much better in everything except for broadside alpha

She will have 13s reload which gives her higher DPM.

She also has longer range, larger HP, stronger AA, better armor, smaller citadel, similar maneuverability. 

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I can't wait for the split so I can sell all my old crappy US cruisers and get some new crappy US cruisers.:cap_like:

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32 minutes ago, dust340man said:

I can't wait for the split so I can sell all my old crappy US cruisers and get some new crappy US cruisers.:cap_like:

Well hopefully they'll be somewhat decent, I'm looking forward to NO at TIer 7, Pensacola Tier 6 (hope she isn't too different by then), and Helena at Tier 7. According to the current stats it looks like New Orleans will be slightly better than Pensacola at Tier 7.

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Feels like NO will be the big loser of the shift. Pepsi while fragile will do well at t6. Balti will have games where t8 is top tier and will do really well in those. NO had stealth and radar which are both gone. 

NO is a slightly better Indy minus the Indy’s radar. WG should buff the guns on Indy so they reload at least as fast as NO but if you want to know  hat the NO will be like at 7 the Indy is a pretty good idea. I perfered pepsi to Indy 

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However from what I know NO will be slightly more durable and a smaller target compared to Pensacola, and the firing angles on the guns aren't too bad. I would more or less play it like I play the current Pensacola, perhaps a bit more aggressively. They have the same guns with the same characteristics, and NO has one more gun forward, so shouldn't be that bad. I currently average 44.5-46k damage in the Pensacola at 131 battles with 52-53% win rate and 1.6-1.7 K/D and high 1300s to low 1400s WTR.

6 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

Feels like NO will be the big loser of the shift. Pepsi while fragile will do well at t6. Balti will have games where t8 is top tier and will do really well in those. NO had stealth and radar which are both gone. 

NO is a slightly better Indy minus the Indy’s radar. WG should buff the guns on Indy so they reload at least as fast as NO but if you want to know  hat the NO will be like at 7 the Indy is a pretty good idea. I perfered pepsi to Indy 

I don't have Indy and I heard she's fatter, less agile, and has a worse shell arc than Pensacola / New Orleans. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Pensacola, fully upgraded, has 12.78km surface detection range and 7.8km detection by air. With Concealment Expert, her detectability drops to 11.24km by sea and 6.86km by air.

New Orleans, fully upgraded, has 11.82km detection by surface and 7.5km detection by air. With Concealment Expert, her detectability drops to 10.4km by sea and 6.6km by sea. With CE+Concealment Systems Mod 1, it drops to 9.2km by sea and 5.85km by air.

 

It will surely be a downgrade in terms of concealment for NO, but tier for tier it will still be an improvement over current Pensacola (which is a good ship to me) plus that at T7 she gets to be top tier a lot and won't see T10.

Edited by Zionas

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3 minutes ago, Zionas said:

However from what I know NO will be slightly more durable and a smaller target compared to Pensacola, and the firing angles on the guns aren't too bad. I would more or less play it like I play the current Pensacola, perhaps a bit more aggressively. They have the same guns with the same characteristics, and NO has one more gun forward, so shouldn't be that bad. I currently average 44.5-46k damage in the Pensacola at 131 battles with 52-53% win rate and 1.6-1.7 K/D and high 1300s to low 1400s WTR.

 

I do like how NO/Indy can play bow on and angle without sacrificing half the fire power. I hope it’s still a great ship. I did well in Pepsi and NO. 

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On 5/6/2018 at 10:09 PM, Zionas said:

However from what I know NO will be slightly more durable and a smaller target compared to Pensacola, and the firing angles on the guns aren't too bad. I would more or less play it like I play the current Pensacola, perhaps a bit more aggressively. They have the same guns with the same characteristics, and NO has one more gun forward, so shouldn't be that bad. I currently average 44.5-46k damage in the Pensacola at 131 battles with 52-53% win rate and 1.6-1.7 K/D and high 1300s to low 1400s WTR.

I don't have Indy and I heard she's fatter, less agile, and has a worse shell arc than Pensacola / New Orleans. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Pensacola, fully upgraded, has 12.78km surface detection range and 7.8km detection by air. With Concealment Expert, her detectability drops to 11.24km by sea and 6.86km by air.

New Orleans, fully upgraded, has 11.82km detection by surface and 7.5km detection by air. With Concealment Expert, her detectability drops to 10.4km by sea and 6.6km by sea. With CE+Concealment Systems Mod 1, it drops to 9.2km by sea and 5.85km by air.

 

It will surely be a downgrade in terms of concealment for NO, but tier for tier it will still be an improvement over current Pensacola (which is a good ship to me) plus that at T7 she gets to be top tier a lot and won't see T10.

My biggest complaint with this process, is the Pensacola.  The people who are saying that it's great at T6, are the same ones who are saying it's great at T7.  Clearly, it's not being re-tiered due to their performance with the ship.  They aren't the ones who are keeping the average damage under 30k and they are not the ones keeping the winrate solidly below 50%.

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If the nerfs are going to hit Pensacola so hard, I will have to sell it with a bit of sadness. I am not saying it's that 'good' of a ship, but I do like the guns. NO will be a somewhat better replacement, hopefully, and I hope to get my hands on Helena. As for Helena, will it have slightly better arcs on its shells than T6 Cleveland? I can't stand those arcs on the Cleveland.

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Pensacola will still put in work by skilled players, but it's going to suck for lesser skilled players.  The turret rotation is brutally unfun at the moment.  Taking that away and removing the concealment buff are literally some of the worst nerfs they could give the ship.  While I don't believe that any nerfs were necessary based on its statistical performance, if you were going to nerf it, nerfing the shell damage and autobounce angles would make more sense.

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Here's an interesting way to look at it:

Pensacola - 10 guns in 4 turrets. Lose 1 turret, lose at most 30% of your firepower.

New Orleans - 9 guns in 4 turrets. Lose 1 turret, lose 33% of your firepower.

Pensacola angled bow first - 5 guns.

NO angled bow first - 6 guns. A one-gun, 20% advantage.

 

Pensacola stern-on and sharply angled - 5 guns. Lose one turret, still retain at least 2 barrels.

NO stern-on and sharply angled - 3 guns. A two-gun 40% DEFICIT. Lose that turret, lose ALL stern firepower.

 

Lies, damned lies and statistics... :Smile_teethhappy:

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Pepsi is going to be difficult for most players after the split, the  turret rotation is probably going to be enough to make me give up an sell it, and I have a 58% win rate in it at Tier VII.  No way you can succeed against the same ships when you can't get your guns to point in the right direction while trying not to get blown out of the water by every ship from DDs on up.  Not Fun Anymore.  I already have the NO, so I don't see any reason to keep the Pepsi after the split (unless some major changes happen).

I'm not sure what kind of game it is designed for after the split.  I remember when I first got it, and it could be seen from the moon...about the only thing it was good at was finding someplace to hide until most of the ships were gone.  I mean it was seen before some BBs, and was a much more inviting target, being squishy and all.  I realize it will hit hard, when you can get the guns to line up, if you don't get hammered while waiting; just doesn't seem to be something to look forward to.

I feel similar about the Dallas, just a ship to grind, not one to keep.  A Cleveland with no armor, give broadside and let the over pins begin.  Has more in common with the Atlanta than Cleveland, except for rate of fire.

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The T6 Pensacola is keeping the gun upgrade stock and the 30s 180 turrets. She will be a beast at T6.

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On 5/1/2018 at 2:43 PM, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

Currently I do alright in the Tier 7 Pensacola, it's very fragile but when nobody's shooting at me I can pull off decent games. The guns are good, that AP really hurts against enemy cruisers (even when slightly angled) and I can set fires to battleships reliably. Once New Orleans replaces Pensacola at Tier 7, how would it stack up to the current Pensacola? Would it perform better, worse, or about the same? Would it require any changes in the play style? I know they have the same guns with the same characteristics so gunnery shouldn't be a problem as the arcs would still be relatively flat, and with the same penetration.

Just now put up a post with a video highlighting the New Orleans, along with some battle footage with her. Here's the link to the post. It's here on the American Cruiser board.

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/159839-075-new-orleans-shes-good-enough-video/

 

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I have played about 15 games in New Orleans done OK better turret turn but miss that that 4 turret that P cola had does`t seem to do as much damage as P cola did when you could get your guns on target. It also seems to have better Armor AA seems about the same as P cola.

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 New Orleans seems to be one of the quite successes of the line revamp. She’s got all the qualities of her tier 8 version, but facing much less brutal matchmaking, making her a very pleasant ship to play. I’m not sure she’s objectively "better" than the Pensacola, but she’s "comfortable". 

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