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TheHamOfAllHams

Not real Kongo?

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So one day i did a little digging at found out that the Kongo model is actually the Hiei... So why don't we have the actual Kongo in game?

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Because "Kongo" in the tech tree, is a representation of the class as a whole, not the ship herself.

Hiei was the most refitted(?) of the 4 ships, so she is the final hull.

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Because Hiei was sunk early enough in the war that her AA wouldn't be crazy OP for tier 5. Kongo, sunk in Leyte Gulf, 1944, had much better secondary and AA equipped.

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24 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

Because "Kongo" in the tech tree, is a representation of the class as a whole, not the ship herself.

Hiei was the most refitted(?) of the 4 ships, so she is the final hull.

Which is funny as the Hiei was the first one sunk.

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1 minute ago, muswp1 said:

Which is funny as the Hiei was the first one sunk.

RNGeezus

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37 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

Because "Kongo" in the tech tree, is a representation of the class as a whole, not the ship herself.

Hiei was the most refitted(?) of the 4 ships, so she is the final hull.

Which is why they use the name of the class for pretty much every tech tree ship in the game. 

With a few exceptions. I believe scharnhorst was the lead ship of the class?

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6 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Which is why they use the name of the class for pretty much every tech tree ship in the game. 

With a few exceptions. I believe scharnhorst was the lead ship of the class?

Gneisenau IMO got the tech tree slot because she'd (IIRC) gone in for her intended 15-inch conversion when things went pear shaped and she was set aside, and they needed a 15-inch ship to span the gap between Bayern and Bismarck. If the German surface fleet had gone on being a healthy proposition, Scharnhorst would have gone in for her up-gunning next. If we wanted to be historically accurate, Scharnhorst would have been the tech tree ship with 3 triple 11-inch to start and a gun research upgrade to 3 twin 15 inch.

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9 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If we wanted to be historically accurate, Scharnhorst would have been the tech tree ship with 3 triple 11-inch to start and a gun research upgrade to 3 twin 15 inch.

Yes.  Or made the Gneis the premium with the 15" rifles.

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But what about  the ARP ships? They should at least be a few tiers higher and be the actual hulls/refits of the actual ships! (Although that would make the ARP Hiei have the worst AA out of the sisters but whatever) This opens up a new topic about how if the ARP ships were T6 & 7 that would make there 14 inch guns pretty  crappy against other ships. But really every Kongo class should stay behind the front line and snipe, right?

Edited by TheHamOfAllHams

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On 5/1/2018 at 3:43 PM, slokill_1 said:

Yes.  Or made the Gneis the premium with the 15" rifles.

Which I'm not sure why they didn't do it this way.

Maybe just didn't want to "downgrade" people from the 15's on the Bayern to the 11's on the Scharnhorst, then back up to 15s on the Bismarck.

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2 hours ago, TheHamOfAllHams said:

But what about  the ARP ships? They should at least be a few tiers higher and be the actual hulls/refits of the actual ships! (Although that would make the ARP Hiei have the worst AA out of the sisters but whatever) This opens up a new topic about how if the ARP ships were T6 & 7 that would make there 14 inch guns pretty  crappy against other ships. But really every Kongo class should stay behind the front line and snipe, right?

Er... no.  The ARP ships all have the same stats as the Kongo, thus solidly tier 5.  The cartoon smoke and sparkly shells don't add an extra tier, sorry.

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On 5/1/2018 at 4:33 PM, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Gneisenau IMO got the tech tree slot because she'd (IIRC) gone in for her intended 15-inch conversion when things went pear shaped and she was set aside, and they needed a 15-inch ship to span the gap between Bayern and Bismarck. If the German surface fleet had gone on being a healthy proposition, Scharnhorst would have gone in for her up-gunning next. If we wanted to be historically accurate, Scharnhorst would have been the tech tree ship with 3 triple 11-inch to start and a gun research upgrade to 3 twin 15 inch.

Gneisenau was actually the class leader, contrary to popular belief.  The class leader is the first ship to be laid down, not the first to launch or commission.  As the class leader, Gneisenau is the proper tech tree ship.  This is a case where WG got it right.  Another example is the US Pensacola class.  Pensacola was laid down first, Salt Lake City launched and commissioned first, yet remained Pensacola class.

As for the Kongo/Hiei, it's representative of the class.  There are variations between most ships in a class, though most are minor.  During beta, Hiei instead of Kongo was a big advantage for the IJN, because WG very much stuck to their idea of max range being determined by primary rangefinder height.  Hiei gained a good deal of range over what Kongo would have had, which led to USN fans accusing WG of cherry-picking the best for the IJN.  WG has a very long track record of selectively picking things that does not benefit the USN lol.  The claims of anti USN bias are nothing new at all.

Another example of a ship representing the class, is again, the Pensacola.  The model in game, is the Salt Lake City, which was distinctly different than the Pensacola was after damage in late 1942.  Pre November 1942, the Pensacola did not carry 40mm, so the ship in game is definitely Salt Lake City rather than Pensacola.  You might make the argument that stock Pensacola could actually be Pensacola, but I couldn't definitively say one way or the other presently.

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Hiei was chosen for T5 since all the other sisters would be too strong for T5 based on AA alone (Kirishima being the only other possible, but in a manner like Texas is to NY). That was what WG themselves had stated back in CBT.

A case can be made for having Kongou and Haruna being T6 Premiums, if given some specialization. For example; Kongou having more main gun accuracy (and 28-30s reload times) whereas Haruna would have better secondary ranges and secondary accuracy. Both their AA is already solid enough for T6; it won't stop a high tier TB drop, but it would considerably weaken DB drops.

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