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Buzzardsluck

CO-OP has become unrealistic

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 Fix the problem where BOTs turning into your torps with not enemy threat. Something as stupid as this makes it unrealistic. It is like beating my head against the wall but no human player would of do some of the stupid stuff BOTs do. Penalties should not be enforced against human against them. I also had a bot launch torps less than 2 km from me at a enemy ship behind me. So close they were unavoidable. CO-OP has gone from a learning tool to something that should be avoided. 

 

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It has always been something that should be avoided.

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Are you complaining you're being outplayed by AI? Standard practice is to change bearing and speed at all times. Especially with expected torpedo attacks. How can you be upset about getting torpedoed by a ship? Dont be broadside and 2km from one and it wouldn't be an issue. Coop is fine.

 

Edit: i reread and guess it was a friendly ship that torped you. That would he a valid complaint.

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Just now, TycoRevre said:

Are you complaining you're being outplayed by AI? Standard practice is to change bearing and speed at all times. Especially with expected torpedo attacks. How can you be upset about getting torpedoed by a ship? Dont be broadside and 2km from one and it wouldn't be an issue. Coop is fine.

No, he's talking about allied bots launching torps at enemies while he is between both.

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1 minute ago, Pulicat said:

No, he's talking about allied bots launching torps at enemies while he is between both.

From what I've seen from players, that *is* realistic.

 

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Allied ships launching torps when there are friendlies in between them and the enemy?

Bots have been doing this in Co-op since the beginning.

Live players have been doing this in Random since the beginning.

I've never played Ranked, but I would wager that its happens there too.

Nothing has changed.  Its always been that way.

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If enemy bots know exactly where my torpedoes are at all times when using the aiming indicator, I should reasonably expect friendly bots to know it too and to turn out of the way (just as the enemy ones do).

I agree with being lenient about friendly-bot kills in co-op; after all, it's not like you can warn them the way you can a human player.

I played a game in my Storozhevoi a couple of nights ago when I eventually gave up on the lock-on aiming indicator. Close in to suicide range, "Use the Force, Luke", and trust in the short range of my torpedoes to avoid teamkills. Two ships sunk in short order and the bots never knew what was coming.

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In addition to that allied bots turning into your ship while you are firing guns. Got a couple friendly hits on a nbot and of course the new wonderful crap player punishment coding turns me pink... IN CO OP.

 

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33 minutes ago, Buzzardsluck said:

 Fix the problem where BOTs turning into your torps with not enemy threat. Something as stupid as this makes it unrealistic. It is like beating my head against the wall but no human player would of do some of the stupid stuff BOTs do. Penalties should not be enforced against human against them. I also had a bot launch torps less than 2 km from me at a enemy ship behind me. So close they were unavoidable. CO-OP has gone from a learning tool to something that should be avoided. 

 

When was Co-Op ever realistic?

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33 minutes ago, Pulicat said:

It has always been something that should be avoided.

Spoiler

852SVCd.gif

 

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If enemy bots know exactly where my torpedoes are at all times when using the aiming indicator, I should reasonably expect friendly bots to know it too and to turn out of the way (just as the enemy ones do).

I agree with being lenient about friendly-bot kills in co-op; after all, it's not like you can warn them the way you can a human player.

I played a game in my Storozhevoi a couple of nights ago when I eventually gave up on the lock-on aiming indicator. Close in to suicide range, "Use the Force, Luke", and trust in the short range of my torpedoes to avoid teamkills. Two ships sunk in short order and the bots never knew what was coming.

I found that a recommendation posted a few weeks ago about using the "X" key to turn off the grey torpedo aiming guide really helps with my longer range hit rates. For example, it has been excellent with the longer ranged torps on the Graf Spee and the bots never seem to recognize the "in-coming"....

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51 minutes ago, Pulicat said:

No, he's talking about allied bots launching torps at enemies while he is between both.

Yes, live players do it a lot.  At least the bot does not spam torp you like live players do.  Live players are far worse.

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31 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

When was Co-Op ever realistic?

When was this game realistic?

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1 hour ago, Buzzardsluck said:

no human player would of do some of the stupid stuff BOTs do

With over 5K battles under your belt, you have played enough games to know this is totally not true, and you should never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

54 minutes ago, TycoRevre said:

Are you complaining you're being outplayed by AI?

No, I think he's complaining about being team killed by a bot in Co-op who fired torps at an enemy when OP was between them.

51 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

From what I've seen from players, that *is* realistic.

All too realistic!

34 minutes ago, OlTanker said:

In addition to that allied bots turning into your ship while you are firing guns.

That IS your fault, as you are responsible for all the ordinance you fire in a match.

34 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

When was Co-Op ever realistic?

Just before Alpha testing ...

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With Ai Bots from co-op, at least you don't have to worry about getting AFK on your team as a dead weight.  LOL

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1 hour ago, Buzzardsluck said:

 Fix the problem where BOTs turning into your torps with not enemy threat. Something as stupid as this makes it unrealistic. It is like beating my head against the wall but no human player would of do some of the stupid stuff BOTs do. Penalties should not be enforced against human against them. I also had a bot launch torps less than 2 km from me at a enemy ship behind me. So close they were unavoidable. CO-OP has gone from a learning tool to something that should be avoided. 

 

Had a human do this to me in Co-op this morning and got my 1st pink warning under the new system (2 games). It isn't just the bots.

I was defending base alone vs 3 BB. NO ONE there helping or in sight. Launched torps at a BB about 3km off as I was WASD'ing for all I was worth. As usual for the bots it pulled it's Ninja magic and dodged half the spread.  As I was finishing it off with guns and looking ahead to the next one coming into the base I hear the warning about damaging your allies. I was like what? Huh?

The torps that missed continued on (8km range) and one of our DD's coming TOWARDS the torps ran into one. I mean he was driving AT the torps and still ran into one. These were 49 knot Marblehead torps too so S-L-O-W and he ran into it with a DD. :Smile_facepalm:

I launched it so I own it, and I apologized in chat and through port chat, but he was no where to be seen when I launched (must have been behind an island - green icon blends in too good with the islands - need new friendly color icons) and I was fighting multiple BB's at once including one right on me. They were all targeting me (last 3 reds alive) so it isn't like the DD was WASD too. He drove right into a torp coming at him.

So took my pink badge of shame to T1 and played my 2 games in Black Swan. Sure didn't feel like I deserved it but in the end my torps my responsibility. You can't trust bots anymore than you can humans in the end. Almost at the point I don't want to use torps at all anymore. Last 2 pinks were this and someone purposely running into them then laughing and carrying on in chat telling me to have fun being pink (admitted it was on purpose).

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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31 minutes ago, DJC_499 said:

I found that a recommendation posted a few weeks ago about using the "X" key to turn off the grey torpedo aiming guide really helps with my longer range hit rates. For example, it has been excellent with the longer ranged torps on the Graf Spee and the bots never seem to recognize the "in-coming"....

 

do you know the name heading of the binding in the key binding menu for that "X" function, or is it another one of them hidden bindings (like turret direction locking).

 

as pressing X dose nothing for me with respect to grey torpedo aiming guide.

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2 minutes ago, b101uk said:

 

do you know the name heading of the binding in the key binding menu for that "X" function, or is it another one of them hidden bindings (like turret direction locking).

 

as pressing X dose nothing for me with respect to grey torpedo aiming guide.

Pressing X swaps your targeting system to the next closest ship. So you line up your torp shot at the bot you want with it on, then press X to un-target the bot, and then launch. It is a long time Co-op trick to help beat the way the bots cheat dodging torps.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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4 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Pressing X swaps your targeting system to the next closest ship. So you line up your torp shot at the bot you want with it on, then press X to un-target the bot, and then launch. It is a long time Co-op trick to help beat the way the bots cheat dodging torps.

lol you dirty little cheater!!!!!! just kidding.

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8 minutes ago, b101uk said:

 

do you know the name heading of the binding in the key binding menu for that "X" function, or is it another one of them hidden bindings (like turret direction locking).

 

as pressing X dose nothing for me with respect to grey torpedo aiming guide.

"Lock Target" is bound to "X" by default under Controls in Settings

You change the Torpedo Lead Indicator by pressing X to switch targets.  If there are no nearby targets, you will have to move the aim point away from the ship a bit and press X.  Then you bring the lead indicator back to where you think it should be and fire quickly, before the Indicator locks.  i rarely have to do that.

Edited by ExploratorOne

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2 minutes ago, UssIowaSailor said:

lol you dirty little cheater!!!!!! just kidding.

Need any help you can get hitting bots with torps. They can defy physics dodging. 

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Yes, because PvE has been very realistic in the past.

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@ExploratorOne

thanks, that's right shift for me.

 

err if I switch to guns, then you cannot fire torps, I always switch to guns after firing torps anyway (i.e. its not the switching back and forth from guns <> torps, it was more the finding of the key that scrolls though targets)

 

@AdmiralThunder

so IF I have this right (coop):

1: switch from guns to torps (target may already be selected from the guns and transfer to the torps)

2: line up the actual green torp launch azimuth/train with the grey torp lead indicator.

3: press X (in my case right shift [Lock Target key binding]) to switch to the next closest target (grey torp lead indicator will move to that new target)

4: quickly fire torps on the original azimuth/train, thus spoofing your intended AI target into not reacting to your torps the moment of launch.

Edited by b101uk

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27 minutes ago, b101uk said:

@ExploratorOne

thanks, that's right shift for me.

 

err if I switch to guns, then you cannot fire torps, I always switch to guns after firing torps anyway (i.e. its not the switching back and forth from guns <> torps, it was more the finding of the key that scrolls though targets)

 

@AdmiralThunder

so IF I have this right (coop):

1: switch from guns to torps (target may already be selected from the guns and transfer to the torps)

2: line up the actual green torp launch azimuth/train with the grey torp lead indicator.

3: press X (in my case right shift [Lock Target key binding]) to switch to the next closest target (grey torp lead indicator will move to that new target)

4: quickly fire torps on the original azimuth/train, thus spoofing your intended AI target into not reacting to your torps the moment of launch.

Yes that is right. The trick is to target the bot, use the gray indicator to line the shot up, and then right before you actually launch use X or whatever function key you are setup for to swap it to the next closest red ship. This seems to defeat the way the game coding gives the bot an instant reaction to the launch which leads to so many dodges for them. It is not a 100% thing but it does help a lot.

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