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Queen Elizabeth: The Garbage Scow the DoY Wasn't

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The Duke of York I got over New Years' Missions is serviceable (though having to fight a KGV with the strictly inferior DoY is still RAEG inducing).

The Queen Elizabeth... isn't.

No one gives a wooden nickel about "hurr durr 15-inch overmatch" when the guns refuse to hit the enemy. And compared to a NM, Fuso or Normandie's 12 guns? 2.0 sigma (95% of shells within the cited accuracy) versis 1.5 sigma (something like 80% of shells within cited accuracy) is irrelevant when it's 0.95 * 8 compared to 0.8 * 12 shells. The QE will hit the target less than the other ships with fewer guns. Then there's the cancer turret traverse speed. Even Jack Dunkirk with his +1 degree/second isn't enough to make it serviceable.

Armour? What armour? It eats citadels often, takes full pen damage from AP EVERYWHERE, and the plating takes HE damage from 5-inch destroyer guns. It also catches fire a lot (even without being shot by the Soviet Molotov Cocktail rounds that Budyonny/Schchors seem to have compared to say Cleveland). The health is also nothing to write home about except for how fast it melts. The repair would have to resemble that of a Minotaur in HP/second to make this competitive.

And the mobility... holy crap New Mexico feels faster in a turn than this thing with its speed bleed (and larger turn radius), and in a straight line it's not that appreciably faster than an NM. And the rudder time is nothing special either for the turn radius.

FIREPOWER: GARBAGE

  • Rate Of Fire: GARBAGE (32 seconds with traverse upgrade module is meh, but for only 8 guns...)
  • Hit Rate: GARBAGE (Too few guns to work with)
  • Range: GARBAGE
  • Overpenetration (instead of citadel) vs cruisers: GARBAGE
  • TURRET TRAVERSE SPEED: GARBAGE

PROTECTION: GARBAGE

  • Armour: MEH
  • HE Protection: GARBAGE
  • Fires: GARBAGE (too slow and not agile enough to dodge cruiser let alone DD flamethrowers at the stupidly close ranges it has to push up to, and tier is too low to have enough default fire resist)

MOBILITY: MEH

  • Top Speed: MEH
  • Turn Speed Bleed: GARBAGE
  • Rudder/Turn Time: MEH

I dread what the Bayern is going to be like with the same gun layout, given I found Colorado inferior to NM when I finished the Colo grind a year ago. My only consolation is that German secondaries will hopefully be slightly less cancerous in PVE and Scenarios.

Because the Queen Elizabeth feels suspiciously like a garbage scow when I play it...Yes, I know I have about 60% WR in it but the average win rate on NA at least is 49.73% right now and for Fuso it's 51.16%, New Mexico isn't even tracked (huh, somehow Warships Today tells me I have better damage and K/D than NM in both, but I won 2/3 in NM and had far higher survival...)

Now I'm not saying any battleship needs buffing, but what does QE have compared to its rivals besides the nebulous, vaporous "overmatch" which if you are choosing targets correctly generally doesn't matter?

 

EDIT: Conducted a test, QE vs NM. NM hits far, far more often than QE does.

Edited by Guardian54
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Just a quality of life buff to turret traverse, probably equal to Warspite would go a long way to making it better. As it is, I couldn't bear grinding it in Randoms so I did the grind in Operations.

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Weird, QE is one of my favorite ships and I always felt like it was a scummy easy mode one for stat padding. Ive never really seen an accuracy problem with the QE its probably the most accurate ship Ive used.

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I love the qe and the warspite.  Accuracy has not been an issue for me in her. Perhaps it's one of those ships that doesn't fit your style. 

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I suspect that it must be a personal style thing here.  QE and Bayern are two of the strongest for Tier BBs that I have encountered, at least for me.  They do require a very different play style from either the IJN sniping style or the New Mexico "spray & pray".  I tend to operate significantly closer to the action, say 12 km or so works very well.  The ships are maneuverable and very tanky if angled properly.  They also have strong secondaries for when torpedo boats try to close for a kill.  The guns need to be in this closer range to hit consistently, but they hit like a ton of bricks at this range and do great damage.  At least that has been my experience.

Queen Elizabeth 6 BB uk.svg UK 15 66.67% 51,155 1,458 3.6 1.2 1.5 67% 30% 0% 1,262
Bayern 6 BB germany.svg Germany 20 70.00% 52,230 1,623 2.9 1.3 2.5 55% 26% 0% 1,336
Edited by Nhi_Vanye

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Yea, I quite enjoy the QE. She's a very typical low tier BB: too slow to do anything except circle the B cap, but with good enough guns and turning to make the fight revolve around her, especially if you're sailing with friends. She's by no means extraordinary, but compared to other ships with the same playstyle she's nowhere near a slouch. Instead of extraordinarily good turning, many barrels or a turtleback, the QE's special offering are very effective HE shells and good enough accuracy to consistently set fires. 

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QE has 2.0 sigma (tied with Warspite for best at tier) and combined with the second smallest BB dispersion ellipse at tier (tied with Warspite, worse than Fuso).  If you can't hit things with the guns, I don't know what to tell you.  Are you using the accuracy upgrade or the turret traverse-hang on, given the reload you stated, you are.  I agree that the traverse is terrible (I played a lot of pre buff Warspite), but it's manageable.  I run secondaries on Warspite and never had issues hitting anything-it's even more accurate with the upgrade you aren't using.  As for the armour, you can bounce 14" if you angle properly, just like Warspite-clearly you aren't if you're regularly eating cits.  As for HE protection, you're covered with 25mm just like everyone else.  What are you even talking about with the hidden fire chance on Budy and Shchors shells?  It's 12%.  New Mexico's average WR is 49.57%-ie lower, as is Bayern's.  So in terms of tech tree ships, only Fuso is better than QE.  In other words: You admit that you do well in the ship, then complain about mostly invalid things and use bad information to support your claims.

Edited by thegamefilmguruman
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It's a mediocre ship, but it's fine. It's basically a "normal" BB. Don't use HE, use AP.

 

Spoiler

 

 

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3 minutes ago, pikohan said:

It's a mediocre ship, but it's fine. It's basically a "normal" BB. Don't use HE, use AP.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

What he said. The AP is very good. Armor is good, and the gun accuracy is about what it should be. Not sure what the OP is talking about.

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Funny - I skipped the QE - went all the way to Conqueror and never got it.

Why? I've had Warspite for almost two years. Why would I even want QE?, so nope.

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1 hour ago, manon45 said:

Weird, QE is one of my favorite ships and I always felt like it was a scummy easy mode one for stat padding. Ive never really seen an accuracy problem with the QE its probably the most accurate ship Ive used.

Yeah I agree and the Aiming Systems Mod 1 on my Queen Elizabeth likely takes care of any accuracy problems lol. And the AP shells are very nice on QE. And even without any AA boosting skills except Adrenaline Rush the AA on the QE Hull B works more than adequately.

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24 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah I agree and the Aiming Systems Mod 1 on my Queen Elizabeth likely takes care of any accuracy problems lol. And the AP shells are very nice on QE. And even without any AA boosting skills except Adrenaline Rush the AA on the QE Hull B works more than adequately.

does adrenaline rush effect AA?

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23 minutes ago, manon45 said:

does adrenaline rush effect AA?

Think it does since it says decreases the reload time for ALL weapons so that would be Main guns, secondary guns, Torpedo tubes, Aircraft ( for CV), and AA guns. Problem is AA guns tend to get shot away over the course of the battle so it’s not like you usually get really overpowered AA by the time you are low HP.

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2 hours ago, Nhi_Vanye said:

I suspect that it must be a personal style thing here.  QE and Bayern are two of the strongest for Tier BBs that I have encountered, at least for me.  They do require a very different play style from either the IJN sniping style or the New Mexico "spray & pray".  I tend to operate significantly closer to the action, say 12 km or so works very well.  The ships are maneuverable and very tanky if angled properly.  They also have strong secondaries for when torpedo boats try to close for a kill.  The guns need to be in this closer range to hit consistently, but they hit like a ton of bricks at this range and do great damage.  At least that has been my experience.

Queen Elizabeth 6 BB uk.svg UK 15 66.67% 51,155 1,458 3.6 1.2 1.5 67% 30% 0% 1,262
Bayern 6 BB germany.svg Germany 20 70.00% 52,230 1,623 2.9 1.3 2.5 55% 26% 0% 1,336

QE is the only RN BB that you can't make the argument for being best tech tree ship in it's tier stats wise. Regardless of the reasons, QE players are less successful relative to their competition than that of any other RN BB. It could be a matter of play style, QE is fundamentally different from the other RN tech tree ships being that's it's AP is better than it's HE and that probably does throw off a lot of it's players but those slow turrets at T6 are also a nightmare. Get rid of those slow turrets and you have the premium Warspite and it does much better, still not my style but I don't think you can say that all the QE hate is a matter of style, though it's no doubt a part. You also did do better with Bayern despite having more matches and I think the Bayern is a better ship(and so did the RN once they got their hands on Baden) despite having it's own issues. With Bayern "that closer range" is required to hit at all, nm consistently and that's one of my big problems with the ship, it's range is just terrible at that tier(and the fact NM's worse is no consolation I think NM is horrible), at T6 it kind of feels like the Nassau and when you get to higher tiers, I don't know you start feeling that a bit more. Love the ships guns though they are wonderful.  

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23 minutes ago, Aristotle83 said:

QE is the only RN BB that you can't make the argument for being best tech tree ship in it's tier stats wise. Regardless of the reasons, QE players are less successful relative to their competition than that of any other RN BB. It could be a matter of play style, QE is fundamentally different from the other RN tech tree ships being that's it's AP is better than it's HE and that probably does throw off a lot of it's players but those slow turrets at T6 are also a nightmare. Get rid of those slow turrets and you have the premium Warspite and it does much better, still not my style but I don't think you can say that all the QE hate is a matter of style, though it's no doubt a part. You also did do better with Bayern despite having more matches and I think the Bayern is a better ship(and so did the RN once they got their hands on Baden) despite having it's own issues. With Bayern "that closer range" is required to hit at all, nm consistently and that's one of my big problems with the ship, it's range is just terrible at that tier(and the fact NM's worse is no consolation I think NM is horrible), at T6 it kind of feels like the Nassau and when you get to higher tiers, I don't know you start feeling that a bit more. Love the ships guns though they are wonderful.  

Very few RN BB's are best tech tree BB of their tier, only 2 I can think of are lion and monarch, maybe orion but even that one is in a tier where all the BB's (except the piece of trash myogi) are extremely powerful so I think its pretty equal to the others with wyoming taking a slight lead.

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3 hours ago, Guardian54 said:

The Duke of York I got over New Years' Missions is serviceable (though having to fight a KGV with the strictly inferior DoY is still RAEG inducing).

The Queen Elizabeth... isn't.

No one gives a wooden nickel about "hurr durr 15-inch overmatch" when the guns refuse to hit the enemy. And compared to a NM, Fuso or Normandie's 12 guns? 2.0 sigma (95% of shells within the cited accuracy) versis 1.5 sigma (something like 80% of shells within cited accuracy) is irrelevant when it's 0.95 * 8 compared to 0.8 * 12 shells. The QE will hit the target less than the other ships with fewer guns. Then there's the cancer turret traverse speed. Even Jack Dunkirk with his +1 degree/second isn't enough to make it serviceable.

Armour? What armour? It eats citadels often, takes full pen damage from AP EVERYWHERE, and the plating takes HE damage from 5-inch destroyer guns. It also catches fire a lot (even without being shot by the Soviet Molotov Cocktail rounds that Budyonny/Schchors seem to have with their hidden fire chance modifier). The health is also nothing to write home about except for how fast it melts. The repair would have to resemble that of a Minotaur in HP/second to make this competitive.

And the mobility... holy crap New Mexico feels faster in a turn than this thing with its speed bleed (and larger turn radius), and in a straight line it's not that appreciably faster than an NM. And the rudder time is nothing special either for the turn radius.

FIREPOWER: GARBAGE

  • Rate Of Fire: GARBAGE (32 seconds with traverse upgrade module is meh, but for only 8 guns...)
  • Hit Rate: GARBAGE (Too few guns to work with)
  • Range: GARBAGE

PROTECTION: GARBAGE

  • Armour: MEH
  • HE Protection: GARBAGE
  • Fires: GARBAGE (too slow and not agile enough to dodge DD fire at ranges it has to push up to)

MOBILITY: MEH

  • Top Speed: MEH
  • Turn Speed Bleed: GARBAGE
  • Rudder/Turn Time: MEH

I dread what the Bayern is going to be like with the same gun layout, given I found Colorado inferior to NM when I finished the Colo grind a year ago.

Because the Queen Elizabeth feels suspiciously like a garbage scow when I play it...Yes, I know I have about 60% WR in it but the average win rate on NA at least is 49.73% right now and for Fuso it's 51.16%, New Mexico isn't even tracked (huh, somehow Warships Today tells me I have better damage and K/D than NM in both, but I won 2/3 in NM and had far higher survival...)

Now I'm not saying any battleship needs buffing, but what does QE have compared to its rivals besides the nebulous, vaporous "overmatch" which if you are choosing targets correctly generally doesn't matter?

Yeah, it is horribad. I have Warspite and it is a good BB but QE is just hot garbage. I played like 15 games and said that is 14 too many and Free XP'd to KGV. Well worth every FXP!!! Not sure which is worse? QE or Monarch? Both just flat suck.  

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2 hours ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

you can bounce 14" if you angle properly, just like Warspite-clearly you aren't if you're regularly eating cits.  As for HE protection, you're covered with 25mm just like everyone else.  What are you even talking about with the hidden fire chance on Budy and Shchors shells?  It's 12%.

That angle has to change all the time though unless you want to go in a straight line.

Which I really, REALLY don't.

And the gun turrets are so slow that after swinging to throw off enemy aim I have to swing back just to shoot.

My Shchors seem to regularly be able to get an enemy on 2 fires if I actually connect more than 4 shells. Sure feels more like 18-20% to me (might just be putting the +2% on the captain though).

2 hours ago, pikohan said:

It's a mediocre ship, but it's fine. It's basically a "normal" BB. Don't use HE, use AP.

I only shoot HE at bow-on BBs, enemy DDs, or when I happen to have it loaded and my last HE target disappeared--it's better than nothing.

In fact I often shoot AP at DDs thinking they'll turn away soon and I can get full pens on their sterns.

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45 minutes ago, manon45 said:

Very few RN BB's are best tech tree BB of their tier, only 2 I can think of are lion and monarch, maybe orion but even that one is in a tier where all the BB's (except the piece of trash myogi) are extremely powerful so I think its pretty equal to the others with wyoming taking a slight lead.

Well until the French BB's came alone, every single other British BB was either the best statistically or arguably the best statistically(Iron Duke and Bellerophon) except for QE. Ironically I think the two you cited are the only two whose status was taken by the new French BB's(and it's debatable when we should start counting them). 

Upon checking the numbers the Bellerophon has taken a nose dive in the stats and is clearly behind Nassau but is still second, misspoke on that one. Not counting the French though, Orion, KGV, Lion and Conqueror are still clearly the best in their tiers and Monarch and Iron Duke are debatedly the best. If you add the French Lion and Monarch are going to be surpassed and KGV might be surpassed at KD but is going to keep her advantages elsewhere.  QE is last in KD amongst T6 tech tree BB's, in a dead heat for last with NM in WR, and third in damage which is her best major stat. You are hard pressed to find another UK BB whose third in any major stat, nm last. 

Orion(pre nerf anyway) was IMO the most OP tech tree BB in this entire game. Orion's averages 7k-8k more damage than any other tech tree T4(Kaiser is second), wins about a percent more than the second place tech tree T4(Kaiser is again second) and averages 0.35 more kills a game than any other tech tree BB(Kaiser is again second). She is massively better stats wise than Wyoming, that being said Wyoming as a lot more matches under her belt but at what point are those leads statistically close to accurate? Remember Kaiser and the Germans have been around a year longer than Orion and Kaiser's still maintaining large leads over Wyoming in everything. Even amongst premiums only T4 better than Orion is the Nikolai which might as well be a religious figure(it's namesake is a saint so there's that). 

Edited by Aristotle83

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45 minutes ago, Guardian54 said:

That angle has to change all the time though unless you want to go in a straight line.

Which I really, REALLY don't.

And the gun turrets are so slow that after swinging to throw off enemy aim I have to swing back just to shoot.

My Shchors seem to regularly be able to get an enemy on 2 fires if I actually connect more than 4 shells. Sure feels more like 18-20% to me (might just be putting the +2% on the captain though).

I only shoot HE at bow-on BBs, enemy DDs, or when I happen to have it loaded and my last HE target disappeared--it's better than nothing.

In fact I often shoot AP at DDs thinking they'll turn away soon and I can get full pens on their sterns.

"firing HE at bow on BB" thats the problem, one of the best thing about QE's guns is they can overmatch bows when they go bow on you punish them with double citadel hits.

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7 minutes ago, manon45 said:

"firing HE at bow on BB" thats the problem, one of the best thing about QE's guns is they can overmatch bows when they go bow on you punish them with double citadel hits.

IIRC they cannot overmatch Tier 7+ bows.

...Which is a problem.

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Well she's actually not that bad of a ship for me, she's one of the few AP dependent ships in the British line so if you're used to the Orion and Iron Duke she'll be quite different. You must load AP and use AP almost exclusively, as she's basically a Warspite with more range and more AA but less maneuverable and has a normal BB damage control. Give quite a bit of lead for shells just as you'd do in the Warspite. Due to the guns being 15" they have the ability to overmatch battleships and of course, they work well on cruisers when the shots connect. It has a 2.0 sigma like Warspite but RNG can be very frustrating at times. One game you'll get tons of high damaging hits and citadels, perhaps even DS some cruisers, other games the shells hit the water or just don't do what they need to do. She has a scout plane like the Warspite for longer range engagements as her main battery range of 17.1km is better than Warspite's 16.3 but still quite lacking. She's a bit more durable than an IJN BB but not exactly a brawler, so play her at mid range, say 11-14km. I do above average in the QE, it's alright to me. When targeting battleships she won't get that many citadel hits due to the short fuse on her British AP, so try to aim for the superstructure / upper belt for solid penetration damage. I've gotten 16-20k salvos even on German battleships at closer ranges. Versus cruisers, of course you can go for citadel hits because she is a BB after all and those 15" shells do hurt a lot when they connect.

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Not sure how she plays, but I love shooting at the QE. She's squishy to HE, and I've citadeled her with Molotov guns before.

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1 hour ago, Guardian54 said:

IIRC they cannot overmatch Tier 7+ bows.

...Which is a problem.

nope all guns 380+ can pen the 25mm bows of tier 7 and down.

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13 hours ago, Guardian54 said:

IIRC they cannot overmatch Tier 7+ bows.

...Which is a problem.

Pretty sure I have against tier 8 BBs using QE?

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