Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Lensar

Rank 23-10 Kagero: Radar wasn't too bad

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,374
Members
3,254 posts
9,531 battles

Skipped last season, so started at rank 23 this time. Clawed my way up to rank 10 playing the Kagero mostly, though I did some Bismark matches when I was frustrated with BBs sailing off in random directions.

While radar was as annoying as ever, it didn't turn out to be game breaking in ranked. If anything, Yolang hydro was a bigger problem for me. 

In fact, I had one Yolang that was running flags, pretty much eat my Kagero's lunch. Couldn't smoke and hide from him, couldn't out gun him obviously, and I couldn't out run him. 

As this is a radar related thread, the usually disclaimers apply so it doesn't get locked:

- Wargaming knows how many people dislike radar. A million posts aren't needed to make them "woke" to the fact that it's hated by many folks.

- Wargaming is not going to change radar. At least not anytime soon. No single or even series of compelling arguments is going to change that.

This being said, if the usual anti-DD crowd starts sharing the usual information about how OP DDs and torps are, WG knows better, so there's no need to try to counter all their points. We wouldn't be seeing things like the shima detection reduction or the torp spotting change for planes, otherwise.

 

Edited by Lensar
  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SYN]
Members
562 posts
6,277 battles

So far, my challenge in ranked (Kagero and Harekaze) is getting some of the team to help out. OTOH, I have won a couple because the red DD had no support. 

Radar has been manageable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,374
Members
3,254 posts
9,531 battles
20 minutes ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

So far, my challenge in ranked (Kagero and Harekaze) is getting some of the team to help out. OTOH, I have won a couple because the red DD had no support. 

Radar has been manageable. 

Yeah, agreed. Super frustrating when half the team just sails off randomly.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
256 posts
5,954 battles

did you  use torpedo reload boost or smoke?? I suspect smoke but wonder with all the radar and sonar if you just played crafty/range games??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,374
Members
3,254 posts
9,531 battles

Smoke. It's just way too useful not to take for ranked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,325
[CUTE]
Members
5,202 posts
3,461 battles

Been running Lo Yang. Have had a decent run so far, the only losses have been little more than steamrolls too, so not much to be done about those.

The one battle where radar became a "problem" was one of those one sided affairs where no one was shooting the broadside cruisers kinda deals. We had the spots on them but the shots just never came.

Teams for the most part have been good, people actually trying to win games and not just playing to save a star right out of the gate. I have been having some decent success in the cap circles and the knife fighting has been great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,742
[INTEL]
Members
8,604 posts
25,782 battles

In Randoms, the team with at least one more radar bote wins 60% of the time, I found.

In Ranked at T8 it is more complicated. The ranges are more compressed and there are fewer radar ships in R23-10 because people are bringing Kooters, Atagos, and Prinz. It's less of a factor because there is less of it. Many T8 captains are mediocre shots and when a DD is lit, they miss it. There are fewer ships -- I expect the effect of losing even a single ship offsets radar advantages very easily.

In Ranked 10-1, radar ships are more common and their radar is more potent, and the captains are better shots. T10 BB AP will strip half the health from a DD in a single salvo, and if you're lit by a DM, you can get hit by a BB or two, the DM itself, and the nearest DD. That will take 15K off your health right away. That is why radar is so broken, because it combines the already broken mechanic of radar with the (widely-considered) broken AP of BBs. It only takes one salvo of BB AP to turn a potent gunboat into a mediocre torp boat.

In R10-1 in addition to the joy of DM and Moskva with their I-WIN buttons, Yueyangs (I never saw a Hsienyang in R23-11) can radar you. The radar threat is thus greater and radar boats have more sway over the outcome. 
 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,742
[INTEL]
Members
8,604 posts
25,782 battles
16 hours ago, Canadatron said:

Teams for the most part have been good, people actually trying to win games and not just playing to save a star right out of the gate. I have been having some decent success in the cap circles and the knife fighting has been great.

Yeah, I think that is a positive influence of Clan Wars. Everyone loads into Ranked with some idea of how to play the maps as a team. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,158 posts
6,955 battles

Played my Kag almost entirely last season.(and did most of my grinding for the kag)   Made good progress until i went on something like 15-20 game losing streak after hitting rank 3.(kept most of my stars)  The biggest threat/annoyance to any DD is the lo yangs.  They make cap contesting very hard, and torping enemies not as easy, thanks to that hydro range.   With that said, if you could get into an open water gun fight vs them in the kag, you could win the  gun fight.  The suffer the same issue as the US DDs do.  Especially if they are chasing you. 

 

as for radar.  Its not too much of an issue if you play it right.  Tho i will say that when one team has 2 or even 3 radars to the other teams none, and add in that same team has lo yangs and yours doesn't, your chances to win go way way way down.  I seen this plenty of times last season.  My team managed to sneak a victory here and there, but you were at the disadvantage. 

 

I don't have a tier 10 stealth DD yet but i would imagine the top pick would be the Z52.  Gearing isn't really any better than the fletcher.(its why i haven't gotten it yet)   Shima with its buffs may not be too bad, but i don't enjoy ships with long torp reloads.  Groz has nice guns, and ok torps.   Tho i don't see it being a standout.  the khaba, if there is a lot of DDs, would be a good pick if you support your DDs. 

 

What little i have played of the the tier 10 ranked, the DM was the popular pick.  I have my DM, and enjoy playing it, but its more map and team dependent compared to other cruisers.  I think i would rather take a zao or hindy(if i had one) over them.  More durable, better guns, torps, zao is stealthier, and with teammates help, better at dealing with DDs.(rail guns)  It is easier to play the zao or hindy than the DM.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,374
Members
3,254 posts
9,531 battles
18 hours ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

I have my DM, and enjoy playing it, but its more map and team dependent compared to other cruisers.  I think i would rather take a zao or hindy(if i had one) over them.  More durable, better guns, torps, zao is stealthier, and with teammates help, better at dealing with DDs.(rail guns)  It is easier to play the zao or hindy than the DM.  

While I score well with my DM, I can't for the life of me figure out how to help my team win with it. My win rate is down in the damn 30s...

Edited by Lensar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,073
[ABDA]
Beta Testers
16,195 posts
11,707 battles
On 4/30/2018 at 4:07 PM, Lensar said:

Skipped last season, so started at rank 23 this time. Clawed my way up to rank 10 playing the Kagero mostly, though I did some Bismark matches when I was frustrated with BBs sailing off in random directions.

While radar was as annoying as ever, it didn't turn out to be game breaking in ranked. If anything, Yolang hydro was a bigger problem for me. 

In fact, I had one Yolang that was running flags, pretty much eat my Kagero's lunch. Couldn't smoke and hide from him, couldn't out gun him obviously, and I couldn't out run him. 

As this is a radar related thread, the usually disclaimers apply so it doesn't get locked:

- Wargaming knows how many people dislike radar. A million posts aren't needed to make them "woke" to the fact that it's hated by many folks.

- Wargaming is not going to change radar. At least not anytime soon. No single or even series of compelling arguments is going to change that.

This being said, if the usual DD crowd starts sharing the usual information about how OP DDs and torps are, WG knows better, so there's no need to try to counter all their points. We wouldn't be seeing things like the shima detection reduction or the torp spotting change for planes, otherwise.

 

This biggest thing they could do to lower cries about radar imo, is to stop giving out the radar duration mod, or nerf the crap out of it.  I don't think short duration radar is a huge issue.  I think when you're taking about 53 second radar from behind an island, tempers flare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,158 posts
6,955 battles
2 hours ago, Lensar said:

While I score well with my DM, I can't for the life of me figure out how to help my team win with it. My win rate is down in the damn 30s...

it is all about positioning.  You have to find a spot that you allows you to influence the more important parts of the map.  Of course, you need maps that allow you to get to those positions and possibly stay there without being deleted or smashed pretty hard.  Some maps are favorable, others are not so much.  DM in open water don't last too long.  You just get over matched by every BB and their mother. 

 

The DM probably is the hardest to play, but if played well, will give you a better chance at winning compared to the other cruisers.  Cruisers like the zao will do well on any map, dont need as much effort to do well in, and are probably more consistent overall.  You aren't as fragile, and have some troll armor.    The hindy is even better at taking hits.

 

as an example.   My DM in randoms hovers around a 70% win rate, while my zao is around 60%.  I do roughly 50% more damage in my Zao compared to the DM while the other stats are fairly similar. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

This biggest thing they could do to lower cries about radar imo, is to stop giving out the radar duration mod, or nerf the crap out of it.  I don't think short duration radar is a huge issue.  I think when you're taking about 53 second radar from behind an island, tempers flare.

the radar duration buff is more useful for a moskva than a DM imo.  outside of just having it up longer and denying the area for a little longer, most of the time, if the target is smart, they are long gone out of your radar range before its half way done.  meaning you are wasting 20-30 seconds that could of been used on the cool down for the next use.  There are times, when you can chase or keep them in your range for longer that the longer duration is more handy, but those aren't the case in the early to mid game.(which is when radar is the most influential)

 

and the longer duration gives you what, another salvo or 2 on the moskva, with its rail guns and longer range.  its more likely they will be in your range for longer, making it more useful there compared to say a DM. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,374
Members
3,254 posts
9,531 battles

 

For ranks 23-10:

 

  Kagero 8 DD  Japan 30 70.00% 22,570 1,725 1.1 0.6 0.0 50% 40% 5% 985
Bismarck 8 BB  Germany 21 52.38% 46,328 1,432 1.3 0.7 1.6 43% 28% 0% 876

 

10+ isn't going quite as well. Khab just isn't working out. Shima seems to be a bit better, but still pretty early.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
266
[SEOP]
Members
1,291 posts
On 4/30/2018 at 1:07 PM, Lensar said:

In fact, I had one Yolang that was running flags, pretty much eat my Kagero's lunch.

so is that like tuna sushi with tons of REAL wasabi?

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
266
[SEOP]
Members
1,291 posts

but yeah -- GJ doing 23-10 in your Kagero.  Not a fan of it cause of the guns.  Like my DDs...but I like um with GUNS!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,545
[OO7]
Alpha Tester
6,753 posts
3,490 battles

Tier 8 was never a strong Radar Tier.  There are only 2 true Radar Cruisers, unless we factor in a RN Cruiser with a crazy captain.

The USN New Orleans is simply a bad ship compared to it's peers, and doesn't have the tools to deal with a full HP DD that must ne Radar'd vs inside concealment range.

The Chappy is a good ship, but is more difficult to use against DDs than if it was the same ship with the New Orleans concealment.

Tier 10 is where the DM makes life rough as an ideal DD killer, and the Moskva simply has the range and duration to make it's longer range engagement distances more viable.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,920
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
3,862 posts
13,078 battles
16 hours ago, Madwolf05 said:

The USN New Orleans is simply a bad ship compared to it's peers, and doesn't have the tools to deal with a full HP DD that must ne Radar'd vs inside concealment range.

Since I switched to NO, I've gone 5/0.

The key to the NO is realizing you ain't going to top out.  Well, i did once on a win...but in general, it's not going to happen.  The key is knowing where to go to maximize your radar advantage for the team.  It really is a TEAM ship.  Hell, i spent 80% of one match hiding behind a mountain keeping DDs out of a cap.  Barely shot at them.  Just lit them up and the team did the rest.

Many times I don't have to do anything except stay quiet...particularly early on.  DDs are very apprehensive about pushing into a cap until the radar ship's location is known.  If our team has the only radar ship (me!), which is true for about half my games....we almost always get two caps early on.  Because no one wants to be the bait for the radar...get killed (or if they're lucky only lose half their HP) and minimize the ability to top out on a loss.  This is where "not losing a star" becomes a strategic aspect of the game.  DDs don't want to push because they don't want to get radar'd and focused and lose the save potential.  Once we have cap advantage...the concept cascades as our point advantage increases.  As the specter of loss adds up, there is even LESS incentive to bait the radar.  Once the DDs turtle up, and we have two caps, the game is half won as the red team begins to chase the top XP on the losing team.  And I haven't even fired a shot!!!!  Or even popped radar!!!

Also, given the sparse CVs in ranked, I go hydro as well.  This is really good in providing the team good torp spots as an added bonus, especially BBs having to worry about the Asashio.   Just position along the threat vector and crank it up. 

I run a full CE build, so the spot and radar distance are very close...I can cover a pretty good swath of escort based on my detection delta.  If it gets breached...I pop radar and the team focus fires.  DD is either dead or beats a retreat. Even if it goes silent, we now know its location. 

I also re-spec'd my captain just for ranked...added superintendent.  Four radar and Four hydro are nice!

And I'm fully flagged for HE spam and speed, and det free. 

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×