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Berlimawurst

USS Boise 10km Radar OP?

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14 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Isn't this going to be the South American premium? They hinted at that at her announcement.

More radar. Just what the game needs. 

Yes, for sure. Right now she have the skin of 9 de Julio in the game, the only thing is, she is on the us tech tree, but then you can see this at her stern:

Spoiler

eDacCr6.jpg

The Argentinian National Emblem, just like the same from this photo of the light cruiser La Argentina:

Spoiler

wLaArgreotnr1971VInstr.jpg

 

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21 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Boise: 15guns x 6rpm

16 hours ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

10 second reload time? Does that mean Helena gets a 10 reload as well? 

The Helena had its reload buffed to 8.5 seconds....I have no clue if that will affect the Boise as well, but I kinda just assumed it would...unless WG decides to give her worse DPM in exchange for radar.

 

18 hours ago, Berlimawurst said:

Des Moines showing side = suicide, so I said Bow in DPM (only 6 front guns)

1.  Good Des Moines players have no problems bringing all 9 guns to bear with out suiciding.

2. With MBM3 the Des Moines still has higher DPM than the Boise, even using only its front 6 guns.

3.  A Tier 7 CL having roughly 66% of the DPM of a Tier 10 CA doesn't really strike me as being all that broken to begin with.

4. What makes you assume the Boise is going to be any more tanky than the DM?  If you give the Boise the same artificial restrictions to fit your narrative it doesn't come anywhere close to Des Moines levels of fire power 

5. The Boise's doesn't even have the best DPM at Tier 7, the Shchors is higher with much more usable arcs....and god forbid you mention the Atlanta(which is stealthier and also has radar).  

 

Edited by yashma

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On 4/30/2018 at 9:38 AM, yashma said:

The Helena had its reload buffed to 8.5 seconds....I have no clue if that will affect the Boise as well, but I kinda just assumed it would...unless WG decides to give her worse DPM in exchange for radar.

 

1.  Good Des Moines players have no problems bringing all 9 guns to bear with out suiciding.

2. With MBM3 the Des Moines still has higher DPM than the Boise, even using only its front 6 guns.

3.  A Tier 7 CL having roughly 66% of the DPM of a Tier 10 CA doesn't really strike me as being all that broken to begin with.

4. What makes you assume the Boise is going to be any more tanky than the DM?  If you give the Boise the same artificial restrictions to fit your narrative it doesn't come anywhere close to Des Moines levels of fire power 

5. The Boise's doesn't even have the best DPM at Tier 7, the Shchors is higher with much more usable arcs....and god forbid you mention the Atlanta(which is stealthier and also has radar).  

 

1. Any Boise players can bring all 15 guns without suiciding in most situations.

2. T10 DD also have more healthpool, and better concealment

3. I never said that DPM was the issue. The issue is the 10km radar.

4. Boise is tangier than DM because it is way harder to citadel. It has better citadel layout, and low tier BB dispersion, player skill are not as good.

5. Shchors dose not have radar, nor it has the superior citadel layout. Shchors is a floating citadel, you will find most Shchors players further away from the battlefield. Atlanta has 9.4 km full concealment and 8.5km radar.

Edited by Berlimawurst

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On 4/30/2018 at 8:31 AM, BrunoSchezer said:

Yes, for sure. Right now she have the skin of 9 de Julio in the game, the only thing is, she is on the us tech tree, but then you can see this at her stern:

  Reveal hidden contents

eDacCr6.jpg

The Argentinian National Emblem, just like the same from this photo of the light cruiser La Argentina:

  Reveal hidden contents

wLaArgreotnr1971VInstr.jpg

 

Pan America line looks fun

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I want More Radar Ships longer lasting radar effects farther reaching radar so when activated all ships within the radar circle are proudly illuminated regardless of concealment. But no more radar through Islands. 

But I am sorry WG will never allow this.

Place a turd in one hand and all my wishes in the other and what you see is what you get. A Turd

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On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 5:23 PM, Berlimawurst said:

The base concealment of this ship is 11.88, with CE and camo it can easily reach 10km

The radar range is 9.99km for 20s at tier 7.

It has the insane fire power of 15 6 inch rifles at Tier 7

This ship has similar DPM to the Des Moines bow in at T10

In addition, unlike RN CL that are easily killed when being detected in the open sea, the Boise has similar armor and citadel as the T6 Cleveland, which are very difficult to citadel. 

The Indianapolis with 10km radar is balanced because she does not have the DPM to kill DDs fast enough, but apparently Boise is way too much.

I would say give she the same radar on Atlanta (8.5km) is a better choice. 

I'm not sure why she is getting DM's 9.9km radar either rather than the standard T7 radar , but it is hardly world-beating on Boise. I don't really understand the argument you are making comparing Boise to DM or arguing that somehow Cleveland's durability affects its radar. Boise's C turret is rarely going to be in position to fire on a DD. C turret is like the one on Myoko and Izumo. It faces aft and is blocked by A and B facing forward. Boise has to expose a decent bit of side to use it and steer at an angle which prevents her from pursuing DDs easily.  She can's use C turret and charge a DD (or X and Y turrets for that matter). If the DD flees (which it should) Boise either has to sacrifice distance and sail laterally to keep all her guns on the DD, or chase it to keep the DD from either out ranging the radar or hiding after it runs out. Boise loses 3/5 of her firepower chasing a DD. She does have a lot of firepower if the DD politely stays alongside, but only bad DD players will do that.  DM can use the module to extend is radar duration to nearly a minute and it only has to give up 1/3 of its firepower to chase a DD. The longer duration plus the forward firepower for pursuit is what makes DM so powerful against DDs. The two ships are not comparable other than the fact they have the same base radar range. 

 

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On 4/30/2018 at 9:38 AM, yashma said:

The Helena had its reload buffed to 8.5 seconds....I have no clue if that will affect the Boise as well, but I kinda just assumed it would...unless WG decides to give her worse DPM in exchange for radar.

 

1.  Good Des Moines players have no problems bringing all 9 guns to bear with out suiciding.

2. With MBM3 the Des Moines still has higher DPM than the Boise, even using only its front 6 guns.

3.  A Tier 7 CL having roughly 66% of the DPM of a Tier 10 CA doesn't really strike me as being all that broken to begin with.

4. What makes you assume the Boise is going to be any more tanky than the DM?  If you give the Boise the same artificial restrictions to fit your narrative it doesn't come anywhere close to Des Moines levels of fire power 

5. The Boise's doesn't even have the best DPM at Tier 7, the Shchors is higher with much more usable arcs....and god forbid you mention the Atlanta(which is stealthier and also has radar).  

 

 BTW, I remember you in your DM in ranked battle.

2 salvos of BB shells wrecked your DM while you are rushing into the cap broadside  

If your DM has Cleveland type armor. I won’t get any citadels 90% chance. Maybe several overpens and some pens maximum.

this is what I was talking about 

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On 5/8/2018 at 2:26 PM, Tzarevitch said:

I'm not sure why she is getting DM's 9.9km radar either rather than the standard T7 radar , but it is hardly world-beating on Boise. I don't really understand the argument you are making comparing Boise to DM or arguing that somehow Cleveland's durability affects its radar. 

DM's radar is nasty, and once you stack a special module, that radar is going to suck for the DDs. That means that at T5 DD players will routinely see powerful radar, meaning that fewer of them will be DD mains, and many will quit in frustration. 

Clearly the devs hate DDs, I dunno why. They want people in BBs, as the decisions they make about the game show. I bet more players will quietly curtail their DD play at T7 once this bote becomes widespread in the game. I know I will be.

Edited by Taichunger

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6 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

DM's radar is nasty, and once you stack a special module, that radar is going to suck for the DDs. That means that at T5 DD players will routinely see powerful radar, meaning that fewer of them will be DD mains, and many will quit in frustration. 

Clearly the devs hate DDs, I dunno why. They want people in BBs, as the decisions they make about the game show. I bet more players will quietly curtail their DD play at T7 once this bote becomes widespread in the game. I know I will be.

Radar mod doesn't work on T7 premiums.

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1 hour ago, Berlimawurst said:

 BTW, I remember you in your DM in ranked battle.

2 salvos of BB shells wrecked your DM while you are rushing into the cap broadside  

If your DM has Cleveland type armor. I won’t get any citadels 90% chance. Maybe several overpens and some pens maximum.

this is what I was talking about 

Not my best game.  Friendly Shima laid smoke for me so I was pushing around the island to get shots on the DD when I got radared by a Minnow who had pushed out into the open farther forward than I expected to get in radar range of the smoke cloud, while the BB that blaped me was unspotted and sitting on the opposite flank.  I took a stupid risk and paid the price for it.

Still, the Cleveland is not invincible....and something tells me it wouldn't last very long against a Montana and Yamato either.  The situation in question isn't really all that relevant as I can point to any number of scenarios in which a Cleveland has been wiped off the face of the earth by a single BB salvo.    

Edited by yashma

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On 4/29/2018 at 5:23 PM, Berlimawurst said:

The base concealment of this ship is 11.88, with CE and camo it can easily reach 10km

The radar range is 9.99km for 20s at tier 7.

It has the insane fire power of 15 6 inch rifles at Tier 7

This ship has similar DPM to the Des Moines bow in at T10

In addition, unlike RN CL that are easily killed when being detected in the open sea, the Boise has similar armor and citadel as the T6 Cleveland, which are very difficult to citadel. 

The Indianapolis with 10km radar is balanced because she does not have the DPM to kill DDs fast enough, but apparently Boise is way too much.

I would say give she the same radar on Atlanta (8.5km) is a better choice. 

The Sea Moines has a 5.5s reload while Boise has a 10s reload, that's the worse reload on guns of her caliber with the shortest range to match for that calibet at tbat tier; and certainly nowhere near the dpm of a DM that has not only the same number of guns bow on; but larger caliber and better AP penetration characteristics.

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57 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

Radar mod doesn't work on T7 premiums.

Thanks. But point remains. Every radar ship is an inducement to ppl to play BBs.

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Just now, Taichunger said:

Thanks. But point remains. Every radar ship is an inducement to ppl to play BBs.

The problem is, a cruiser does not have the tools to hunt and kill destroyers, which under the old, failed RPS trifecta, is their role.  The cruiser is both slower and has worse concealment, which means unless the destroyer is incredibly stupid, there's no way for the cruiser to hunt and kill the destroyer without assistance.  There's a reason why radar was added to the game, and the reason isn't bad.  The implementation might be bad, but the reason is not.

IMO, radar should be a tool for the cruiser to hunt and kill destroyers, not a tool for cruisers to illuminate an area for other people to kill the destroyers.  Hopefully, the CV rework will include revamping the vision mechanics (hope that's still part of the plan at least) which would hopefully change the way radar works as well.

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1 minute ago, crzyhawk said:

The problem is, a cruiser does not have the tools to hunt and kill destroyers, which under the old, failed RPS trifecta, is their role.  The cruiser is both slower and has worse concealment, which means unless the destroyer is incredibly stupid, there's no way for the cruiser to hunt and kill the destroyer without assistance.  There's a reason why radar was added to the game, and the reason isn't bad.  The implementation might be bad, but the reason is not.

IMO, radar should be a tool for the cruiser to hunt and kill destroyers, not a tool for cruisers to illuminate an area for other people to kill the destroyers.  Hopefully, the CV rework will include revamping the vision mechanics (hope that's still part of the plan at least) which would hopefully change the way radar works as well.

Yes i have always advocated the radar should only work for the ship using it. Other ships should just get ghosted ships.

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The problem is the lazy coding/spotting mechanics they use.  When radar is active, it simply changes the minimum detect range of the ship to the range of the radar.  The spotting mechanics share that with the rest of the team.

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Just a reminder to the stupid: a united states cruiser is utterly innert against a DD without radar. 32 kt speed with no ability to torp a smokescreen. 

If radar only worked for the cruiser in question and no one else then extending it's duration would be just fine but removing it or gimping it is unacceptable. 

Edited by TheNargacuga

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This thing is only 30 knots IIRC.  Radar absolutely should be self-only and longer duration.  I don't see it changing though because it would expose the island humping cruisers for what they are.

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On 5/9/2018 at 6:21 AM, CLUCH_CARGO said:

I want More Radar Ships longer lasting radar effects farther reaching radar so when activated all ships within the radar circle are proudly illuminated regardless of concealment. But no more radar through Islands. 

But I am sorry WG will never allow this.

Place a turd in one hand and all my wishes in the other and what you see is what you get. A Turd

Turd Crap crap. Which one gets edited out automatically by the forum bots ? 

Edited by Crusin_Custard

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On 4/29/2018 at 7:03 PM, Taichunger said:

LOL. I always thought so too. But if you look at the Russian server, it is third in win rate despite its crappy damage numbers. The power of radar, I expect.

image.thumb.png.79504e3c0d981c9935ce17714f4cb9ea.png

Or a completely different meta.  This is the same server that has the Midway being so OP that they had to be nerfed right?

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On 5/16/2018 at 11:01 AM, KaptainKaybe said:

It's the same exact radar as Indianapolis.

But it has better stealth and better guns aganst DD

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On 5/16/2018 at 6:09 AM, TheNargacuga said:

Just a reminder to the stupid: a united states cruiser is utterly innert against a DD without radar. 32 kt speed with no ability to torp a smokescreen. 

If radar only worked for the cruiser in question and no one else then extending it's duration would be just fine but removing it or gimping it is unacceptable. 

give it a appropriate T7 radar: 8.5 km, same as Belfast and Atl

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14 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

But it has better stealth and better guns aganst DD

Yeah, Boise power creeps Indy pretty solidly. Indy is more agile and most of her firepower is focused bow on which is really nice... but Boise's DPM is way way stronger. Whereas Indy loses on rate of fire compared to NO for this radar, Boise's rate of fire is the exact same as Helena's, which makes this ship so much stronger. 

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On 5/8/2018 at 3:21 PM, CLUCH_CARGO said:

I want More Radar Ships longer lasting radar effects farther reaching radar so when activated all ships within the radar circle are proudly illuminated regardless of concealment. But no more radar through Islands. 

But I am sorry WG will never allow this.

Place a turd in one hand and all my wishes in the other and what you see is what you get. A Turd

Zoloft needs buff

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Honestly radar only on premium ships had always irked me. I don’t even like that radar is at tier 7 in the first place. It really hurts those grinding destroyers the most. It is what it is.

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