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Erebthoron

Somers class DD: would you buy her as a premium if she get no reload

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I'm just a bit of bored, so I went through the USN DD's.

Between 1937 and 1939 the USN build five DD of the Somers class.

The main difference to the USN DD we have ingame now is that they had a 4x2 5" gun layout. Later in war those were reduced to 3x2 guns.

Her AA was crap till they removed one of the turrets to add some 40mm Bofors and 20mm Oerlikons. In her final version even the torpedos were removed to add a few more Bofors.

Her torpedo armament was 3x4 21" Torpedos, one launcher at the centerline, one at each side.

Since WG love to make premium ships that are special: how about make her real? The Somers carried no torpedo reload.

At T6 she would have a murderous knife fighting skill with 8 5" guns but you cannot spam torpedos all the match. Just make them count!

The Somers had 1840 standart tons, 2767 full loaded, were designed to reach 36 knots, but run 38.6 at the trials.

They were equiped from 1940 on with the mark 15 torpedos. Those are the stock ones of the Benson.

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I dont see this gimmick going over very well. Those torps would have to basically sink anything a single one touched with the lack of a reload available. 

You could not hope to up the gun performance to make up the slack from a lack of reloads, the guns would be wickedly imbalanced against others if that were the case. It would just be such a balance nightmare I cannot even think they would consider it.

 

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In a word, no.

Besides, DD's in game have an artificially low reload rate and torp inventory.  So I'd see no reason to do so on this version.  Unless WG wanted to try another gimmick and make another ship so narrowly focused as the Asashihole. 

Edited by ZARDOZ_II

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She's basically a T6 Shimakaze but with OP guns as well. 

The Emerald has a heavier torpedo load-out at T5 (2 quad each side), but she's nerfed by being a CL, much larger and less agile with a paper-thin citadel, and with a relatively poor gun armament. The ship you are proposing would be a monster. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want her, I must admit.

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1 hour ago, Canadatron said:

I dont see this gimmick going over very well. Those torps would have to basically sink anything a single one touched with the lack of a reload available. 

You could not hope to up the gun performance to make up the slack from a lack of reloads, the guns would be wickedly imbalanced against others if that were the case. It would just be such a balance nightmare I cannot even think they would consider it.

 

There are so many mechanics in game that spot torpedoes as it is; this has led to a 6-10% average hit rate. Even if you hit, you have to contend with torpedo armour belts that reduce hit strength.

Expecting a DD to damage other ships with its guns (meh!), only other DDs really. In a game that concentrates so much on damage, whatever the ship type, I really couldn't see me buying a DD that seems to have so little opportunity to damage. :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_

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In a word, No.

In two words, (Insert your favorite 4-letter word here) No.

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Eh, I can't see it with no torpedo reloads at all.  But if it's going to have 8 guns, the torpedoes will probably need some kind of nerf, like a really long reload time, short range, or low speed.  The nerf could then be ameliorated with an upgrade to a B hull that removes a turret for more AA.

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Nope.

The reason being it sounds great for the driver, not anyone else. Smells like too much power creep. 

Fixing tier 7 power  creep by creeping tier 6 is not an answer.

Farkles and gimmicks aren't going to provide any more unique game play going forward. WG needs to get off the gimmick wagon and admit they have a problem in that regard.

Expansion of ship characteristics, primarily further national 'flavor' attributes or a more detailed treatment of an existing mechanic like the whole fire/flooding, damage control/repair party mechanism. This is what should be considered instead of gimmicky power creep ideas. (my two cents)

 

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Not just "no", but "hell no".  I'm already sick and tired of USN premium DDs getting boned in the torpedo department without having one that doesn't even have torp reloads at all.

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2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

She's basically a T6 Shimakaze but with OP guns as well. 

The Emerald has a heavier torpedo load-out at T5 (2 quad each side), but she's nerfed by being a CL, much larger and less agile with a paper-thin citadel, and with a relatively poor gun armament. The ship you are proposing would be a monster. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want her, I must admit.

I'm not sure that she'd be a T6 at all.  Looking at where she existed in the progression of USN DDs at the time, I'd say that we're looking at more of a tier 7 or 8 DD.  But as you imply, the Somers would have a very powerful battery of guns with 4x2 5"-ers along with 3 quad torp launchers.  

One thing I noticed in her wiki article was that her original 5" guns had no AA capability, but during WW2 one of her refits removed one turret, but replaced the other 3 with the standard 5" dual purpose turrets.  And even then, we'd be looking at a DD with the same main gun armament as a Gearing.  Of course, this same refit removed one of her torp launchers in favor of more AA.  And on a couple of the DDs in the class, ALL of the torp launchers were removed in favor of more AA. 

Honestly, I'm not interested in a no torp launchers DD.  I suppose that a 3x2 5" gun, 2x4 torp launcher version of the Somers could work, though it'd probably have to be with weaker torps, depending on what tier she was placed at.  Furthermore, given that the USN already has a T8 and a T7, plus a T6 on the way, I don't see a need for another premium DD in that range.  What might be more likely could be a second USN DD line.  However, I'm not sure how it'd be all that much different from the first one, at least without checking out all the potential candidates to see if there's a potential differentiation.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

I'm not sure that she'd be a T6 at all.

You're probably right, but I was merely taking the OP's suggestion and running with it.

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I think this is a bad idea. 8x 5in/38 with 15 RPM smashes other destroyers so hard it's basically unbalanced. The torpedo armament with reloads is identical to the T7 Mahan, the difference being +3 guns (and better firing angles, ahead and astern firepower).

Trying to balance this at T6 with nerfed torpedoes I think is doomed to failure. This ship throws as many RPM as Gearing, a proposed T6 is out of whack even if she were torpedo-free.

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6 minutes ago, mofton said:

I think this is a bad idea. 8x 5in/38 with 15 RPM smashes other destroyers so hard it's basically unbalanced. The torpedo armament with reloads is identical to the T7 Mahan, the difference being +3 guns (and better firing angles, ahead and astern firepower).

Trying to balance this at T6 with nerfed torpedoes I think is doomed to failure. This ship throws as many RPM as Gearing, a proposed T6 is out of whack even if she were torpedo-free.

 

Mofton, this would much more likely be a tier 7 or 8.  And probably more likely in her 3x2 dual purpose 5" guns, 2x4 torp launchers refitted version.   But even then, she'd be brutal to balance.

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12 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I'd say that we're looking at more of a tier 7 or 8 DD.

I would have said even higher, @Crucis; that gun armament, like you said, is Gearing level. That is kind of hard at tiers 7 or 8, IMHO.

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4 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I would have said even higher, @Crucis; that gun armament, like you said, is Gearing level. That is kind of hard at tiers 7 or 8, IMHO.

Well, they could reduce increase the reload time so that the DPM wasn't so incredibly high.

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Just now, Umikami said:

I would have said even higher, @Crucis; that gun armament, like you said, is Gearing level. That is kind of hard at tiers 7 or 8, IMHO.

With only one shot of torps (or no torps at all) this could work at T8.  I'd like to see both refit options, remove one launcher for some AA, or all of them for good AA.

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6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Well, they could reduce increase the reload time so that the DPM wasn't so incredibly high.

Or ... they could keep the outrageous reload, and the torps, and make her a tier 9 free XP ship.

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Just now, Umikami said:

Or ... they could keep the outrageous reload, and the torps, and make her a tier 9 free XP ship.

I like that idea.

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9 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Or ... they could keep the outrageous reload, and the torps, and make her a tier 9 free XP ship.

Obviously would have to have some good torps at tier 9, like perhaps the Fletcher torps.  Those would be nice.

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Obviously would have to have some good torps at tier 9, like perhaps the Fletcher torps.  Those would be nice.

Yeah, it would be too much to ask for Gearing's 16.5Ks!

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Why not all three?

Sims has two torp load outs so why don't you

A hull 4 turrets 3 torps

B hull 3 turrets 2 torps + AA + 500hp

C hull 3 turrets no torps + more AA + 1000hp  + hydro/DF

Savvy captains could switch their builds around to address different threat environments

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4 minutes ago, cavscout1739 said:

Why not all three?

Sims has two torp load outs so why don't you

A hull 4 turrets 3 torps

B hull 3 turrets 2 torps + AA + 500hp

C hull 3 turrets no torps + more AA + 1000hp  + hydro/DF

Savvy captains could switch their builds around to address different threat environments

For what it's worth, the 4 turret layout didn't include dual purpose turrets.  The 5" guns on the 4 turret stock Somers were surface action only.

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33 minutes ago, Crucis said:

 

Mofton, this would much more likely be a tier 7 or 8.  And probably more likely in her 3x2 dual purpose 5" guns, 2x4 torp launchers refitted version.   But even then, she'd be brutal to balance.

Probably, just not T6!

The 3x2/2x4 version wouldn't be that hard at T7, one more gun, one fewer TT than Mahan, similar armament to Gadjah Mada overall.

The easiest way to balance her is with a concealment choke-chain. Best-case 6.8km concealment would be a major downside to a ship with poor shell arcs.

Between T7 and T8 there's often not much change, tweak the torps, add concealment module, voila.

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