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KDEstroy_2

How could the Matchmaking mess in Tier 5 & 6 be fixed?

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It's not fair for tier 5 & 6 ships to get bumped up two tiers in matchmaking, but only gets to face ships one tier lower. After playing ten games in Marblehead, I was bottom-tier facing tier 7 in six of the matches. However, it's also unfair to the lower tier players who are new to the game to get blown to bits by tier 5 & 6 players.

How do you think this problem could be solved? Or, do you consider this to just another minor issue with the matchmaker with bigger problems?

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13 minutes ago, KDEstroy_2 said:

It's not fair for tier 5 & 6 ships to get bumped up two tiers in matchmaking, but only gets to face ships one tier lower. After playing ten games in Marblehead, I was bottom-tier facing tier 7 in six of the matches. However, it's also unfair to the lower tier players who are new to the game to get blown to bits by tier 5 & 6 players.

How do you think this problem could be solved? Or, do you consider this to just another minor issue with the matchmaker with bigger problems?

WG has stated on reddit that it will not change, they want to "Encourage" players to push to tier 10, where you can never be bottom tier....:Smile_teethhappy:

I too believe it's bad for the game, and causes more retention issues, but WG is a business, and they've determined that it's in their best interest to keep it that way....

Only way it will ever change is they lose enough players to hurt, and that hasn't happened so far.

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KDEstroy_2, you're in the deep end of the pool now.  (The kiddie pool being tier 4 and below.)  +/-2 tier MM is the norm in the deep end of the pool.  There are plenty of experienced players playing tier 5-7 ships, so you have to start learning fast if you're going to compete in the deep end of the MM pool.

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19 minutes ago, KDEstroy_2 said:

It's not fair for tier 5 & 6 ships to get bumped up two tiers in matchmaking, but only gets to face ships one tier lower. After playing ten games in Marblehead, I was bottom-tier facing tier 7 in six of the matches. However, it's also unfair to the lower tier players who are new to the game to get blown to bits by tier 5 & 6 players.

How do you think this problem could be solved? Or, do you consider this to just another minor issue with the matchmaker with bigger problems?

For Marblehead specifically; play it like a destroyer leader; do as destroyers do; (hug islands, dance like your pants are on fire,) sans smoke.

More generally, the only solution from a player’s side is experience. Lots of games make it easier to deal with being uptiered.

+1/-1 MM, and a few other thing WG might do, are unlikely atm, based on previous discussions.

...and yes; even someone with as many games as I’ve played recognizes that Tier 5 and Tier 7/8 are all the whipping boys for MM right now.

Only thing you can do is keep plugging away. If Randoms get you down, play Co-op and beat up bots for a while.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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You really should be grateful that its not +3 anymore where your poor tier 5/6 could find itself going against tiers 8/9. There isn't any reason to change it as you're already getting more XP for damaging a tier 7 than a tier 7 is getting for damaging you (assuming equal damage dealt).

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16 hours ago, KDEstroy_2 said:

It's not fair for tier 5 & 6 ships to get bumped up two tiers in matchmaking, but only gets to face ships one tier lower. After playing ten games in Marblehead, I was bottom-tier facing tier 7 in six of the matches. However, it's also unfair to the lower tier players who are new to the game to get blown to bits by tier 5 & 6 players.

How do you think this problem could be solved? Or, do you consider this to just another minor issue with the matchmaker with bigger problems?

The purpose of destroying the two best tiers in the game was to sell more premium ships to players who were forced to rise up through the tiers because T5 and T6 are such a trial now.

That was the single most destructive decision ever made by WG. It did vast harm to new player retention and to game play in the upper tiers. Because new players race through these tiers since they are not fun, they reach T7-9 knowing less about the game and playing like crap. 

There is nothing to be done about it. The devs don't play the game, so they don't care about game play. Selling premiums is more important than retaining players. So you'll just have to suffer....

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separate old BBs from high speed BBs, aka no T8 or above ships in mid tier matches. 5-7 should have it own exclusive bracket, with T5-7 BBs, T6-8 Cruisers, T5-7 DDs.

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I get all excited when I’m t7 in a 5-7 match. All those juicy emeralds and Omaha’s to cit and the kill me two min into the game. 

Lot course know that I have played up to t10 and running the Russian cl line I’m loving the Kirov and waxing Pepsis and Fijis. 

You will get better playing against better comp. t8 is the hardest tier imo but you really learn to play your ship 

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48 minutes ago, KDEstroy_2 said:

It's not fair for tier 5 & 6 ships to get bumped up two tiers in matchmaking, but only gets to face ships one tier lower. After playing ten games in Marblehead, I was bottom-tier facing tier 7 in six of the matches. However, it's also unfair to the lower tier players who are new to the game to get blown to bits by tier 5 & 6 players.

How do you think this problem could be solved? Or, do you consider this to just another minor issue with the matchmaker with bigger problems?

Really it's about getting high-tier players to slum it lower down to pay for their money-sucking ships to fight in incredibly boring battles.

[omg I actually said that!]

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20 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

The purpose of destroying the two best tiers in the game was to sell more premium ships to players who were forced to rise up through the tiers because T5 and T6 are such a trial now.

That was the single most destructive decision ever made by WG. It did vast harm to new player retention and to game play in the upper tiers. Because new players race through these tiers since they are not fun, they reach T7-9 knowing less about the game and playing like crap. 

There is nothing to be done about it. The devs don't play the game, so they don't care about game play. Selling premiums is more important than retaining players. So you'll just have to suffer....

Tai, I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.  What you wrote is entirely too vague and confusing.  Could you rephrase this to make it more clear what you're trying to say?  Thanks.

Also, I think you're wrong about the final sentence in the 2nd para.  New players race through tiers because that's what new players always do.  Are you going to say that you didn't care through all tiers on your first line of ships?  Sure ya did!

 

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9 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

I get all excited when I’m t7 in a 5-7 match. All those juicy emeralds and Omaha’s to cit and the kill me two min into the game. 

Lot course know that I have played up to t10 and running the Russian cl line I’m loving the Kirov and waxing Pepsis and Fijis. 

You will get better playing against better comp. t8 is the hardest tier imo but you really learn to play your ship 

Tier 8 is the hardest because there's a rather significant population of players with tier 10 ships.  And at certain times of day, there will be a LOT of tier 10's in the MM queue, and the tier 8's are needed to backfill the last handful of team slots.  I will say though that yesterday IIRC, I was in a battle with relatively few tier 10's and a lot of tier 8's.  Was actually nice to see, as it gave the tier 8's plenty of same tier ships to engage rather than feeling overwhelmed by 8 or 9 tier 10's all the time.

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10 straight t7 battles in my new not upgraded in any way and no captain points assigned, no signals....nothing...not even camo Kirov. WG wth....Where's the fun? With every so called 'fix' things seem to get worse.

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8 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Really it's about getting high-tier players to slum it lower down to pay for their money-sucking ships to fight in incredibly boring battles.

ROFLMAO so true.:Smile_great:

 

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16 hours ago, Crucis said:

Tai, I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.  What you wrote is entirely too vague and confusing.  Could you rephrase this to make it more clear what you're trying to say?  Thanks.

Also, I think you're wrong about the final sentence in the 2nd para.  New players race through tiers because that's what new players always do.  Are you going to say that you didn't care through all tiers on your first line of ships?  Sure ya did!

LOL. I played well over 100 battles in Murmansk, which I loved, even though I sucked, in a leisurely crawl through T5. But I learned tons about gameplay. I used to play lots of T5 and T6, those tiers were a blast. Retired so many ships when WG screwed T5 and T6. Molotov, Murmansk, Marblehead (never even played in Randoms), Warspite. I still play Konig sometimes, but being uptiered to face T9 aircraft with Saipan is stupid beyond belief.

I honestly feel like they reneged on their implicit agreement when I purchased Murmansk, that I'd actually be able to play the boat in an environment in which it is competitive. Because they wrecked those two tiers, I don't buy any premiums from them, now. 

 

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17 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

separate old BBs from high speed BBs, aka no T8 or above ships in mid tier matches. 5-7 should have it own exclusive bracket, with T5-7 BBs, T6-8 Cruisers, T5-7 DDs.

No, this just won't work.  And IMO, it's a bad idea.  Better to make other changes.

1. The truly slow BBs in tiers 5-7 are all USN BBs.  The problem with USN BBs is that their "upgraded" engines are actually their real life original engines.  However, other nations in this tier range got fictional engine upgrades (British, German, and French BBs, I'm looking at you).  The way to fix the slow USN BBs in this tier range is to make their upgraded engines into their stock engines, and the create fictional engine upgrades that give these BBs a more competitive speed.  

 

2. The tier 8 concealment upgrade module.  This is, IMO, a bit of a game breaker (metaphorically speaking).  All or nearly all DDs in each DD line have their concealments progressively better.  But when you hit tier 8, those DDs get the concealment upgrade module, which instantly gives them a 10% reduction in concealment.  This upgrade needs to be removed, and concealments need to be rebalanced around its non-existence.

3. This is an interesting, new idea that someone posted in the last day or so.  I don't know how I feel about it, but it's worth mentioning, if only for discussion's sake.  The idea was to change the Concealment Expert skill to being a Camouflage Expert skill, with the effect being to remove the concealment enhancement and replace it with a benefit that would increase the dispersion of ships firing at you, supposedly due to better camouflaging of your ship.

2a+3a:  If both ideas #2 and #3 were implemented, I might then suggest rebalancing each affected ship's concealment so that the desired concealment becomes the ship's base concealment.

NOTE:  Ideas 2+3 affect more than tiers 5-7, but it does seem like it'd be beneficial to all.

 

 

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Yeah I agree. Tiers 5 and 6 are really a pain to play these days, it's sad because they used to be the most enjoyable tiers.  Something has to be done to make these two, the true mid-tiers, enjoyable once more.

Edited by Zionas

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19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Also, I think you're wrong about the final sentence in the 2nd para.  New players race through tiers because that's what new players always do.  Are you going to say that you didn't care through all tiers on your first line of ships?  Sure ya did!

I did, and did not.

After fxp rushing to get DM, (Chester, St Louis, Cleveland, Des Moines,) I realized what a moronic, stupid idiot I was; went back where I belonged, and stayed at Tiers 3-6 for the better part of 2016.

It was only in 2017 that I really made any serious forays into higher tiers again.

Like others have said; being in my Emerald or Marblehead is reason for caution, but is a great thing too. With a decent game, the uptiered ship bonuses often mean I place in the top five, or even top three on the score page.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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Well WG could remove that protected T4 match. Your T5-6 may now have a fair MM, but then new player would face Fusou, New Mex, Ryoujou ... in their poor little Kuma. T4 would become a nightmare to grind. In the end it wouldn't solve the problem but move it somewhere else.

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The only way to fix 5 and 6 is to revert the protected tiers of 3 and 4.  All they need to do to make those ships competitive is small buffs, mainly to range.  

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Simply put, it won't change unless all of the MM goes back to the +2/-2 spread it was before. There will always be a tier getting unfairly put at the bottom unless they restore the old MM.

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1 minute ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Well WG could remove that protected T4 match. Your T5-6 may now have a fair MM, but then new player would face Fusou, New Mex, Ryoujou ... in their poor little Kuma. T4 would become a nightmare to grind. In the end it wouldn't solve the problem but move it somewhere else.

How much of a nightmare is it?  Most of us played ships through unrestricted tiers.  And even if it were a little tougher, tiers 2-4 go by soooo fast.

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9 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

LOL. I played well over 100 battles in Murmansk, which I loved, even though I sucked, in a leisurely crawl through T5. But I learned tons about gameplay. I used to play lots of T5 and T6, those tiers were a blast. Retired so many ships when WG screwed T5 and T6. Molotov, Murmansk, Marblehead (never even played in Randoms), Warspite. I still play Konig sometimes, but being uptiered to face T9 aircraft with Saipan is stupid beyond belief.

I honestly feel like they reneged on their implicit agreement when I purchased Murmansk, that I'd actually be able to play the boat in an environment in which it is competitive. Because they wrecked those two tiers, I don't buy any premiums from them, now. 

 

Honestly, I don't feel all that bothered to bring tier 5 ships into tier 7 battles.  I really don't.  But I will say that I agree with you 1000000% about the Saipan.  It's just plain ridiculous for a tier 7 CVL to have tier 9 planes.  

I think that the Warspite is a fine ship, though it really needs a range buff.  There are two things in this game that skill can't really beat.  Gun range (oh, at least out to around 20-ish km; beyond that doesn't matter so much) and concealment.  Well, and for BBs, speed to some degree, but more in a strategic sense than a tactical sense, though occasionally in knife fighting range brawls, having a significant speed advantage can be a massive advantage.  Like say, a Richelieu brawling a Colorado.  The Richy can use its speed to out turn both the Colorado's rudders and her gun turrets and get around on her "back" side and really wreak havoc.  But this doesn't seem to happen all that often.

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Well WG could remove that protected T4 match. Your T5-6 may now have a fair MM, but then new player would face Fusou, New Mex, Ryoujou ... in their poor little Kuma. T4 would become a nightmare to grind. In the end it wouldn't solve the problem but move it somewhere else.

Yes BUT T4 is gotten through quickly. T5 and T6 take longer. 

Another option would be to restrict the players rather than the tier -- a threshold, like 200 games, then they can go up to T5. Something like that. 

Of course, a one tier MM would solve all these problems. But WG will never be that rational. Sad. 

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3 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Yes BUT T4 is gotten through quickly. T5 and T6 take longer. 

Another option would be to restrict the players rather than the tier -- a threshold, like 200 games, then they can go up to T5. Something like that. 

Of course, a one tier MM would solve all these problems. But WG will never be that rational. Sad. 

Tai, there's no reason why an experienced player like you can't be competitive with a tier 5 ship in a tier 7 battle.  I do agree that extreme newbies will have problems.  But then again, they'll have problems with tier 5's in a tier 6 battle.  Heck, they'll have problems with tier 5 ships in tier 5 battles.

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Just now, Pope_Shizzle said:

How much of a nightmare is it?  Most of us played ships through unrestricted tiers.  And even if it were a little tougher, tiers 2-4 go by soooo fast.

 

Staying on the example of Kuma, she's more fragile than her T5 Furutaka.  The only drawback I had with Furutaka is her crap range, but armor wise she's actually decent and her guns are great for T5. I think only DD might now be heavily impacted by that. Isokaze would still have great concealment and Clemson would not be that monstruous sealclubbing (maybe I don't know).

 

Some ship line will have less trouble to go through this MM storm like Furutaka while other will just keep struggeling like Omaha but I still think a T4 facing T6 have less chance than a T6 facing a T8 (maybe it's just me, because I'm used to be bottom tier . )

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