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Raiiako

in FDG and GK, what to do when you lose your only DD, and the other side of the map can't push?

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It seems like FDG and GK are capped in win rate simply by games where there seems to be nothing possible to do. Inability to push without support with enemy cruisers spraying fire and enemy DDs still alive. And if the other side of your team makes no progress and everyone lemmings to one corner in the back, what can one do in these ships? 

Slightly similar question for Bismarck and Tirpitz, except those are far more maneuverable and can get out of trouble better. 

I know that zombie build is considered the prime choice for good players... but what to do when you can't advance or land effective damage? 

Seems like zombie would be still best for GK. FDG, I'm really wondering if a secondary build is better to allow you to push destroyers. 

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25 minutes ago, mohawkdriver said:

What is a 'zombie build'?

Yea, whats that?

I have a secondairy build and just try to make the push.

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KM BBs are brawlers. That is the way WG set them up to make their niche in the game environment. I use mine as solo-cappers. A Kurfurst has a pissed-off Atlanta welded to each side. Stomp in with hydro and plane activated. KM hydro is best in game.

Here is how I set mine up. Purely personal, just for comparison. Your mileage may vary.

Preventive Maintenance, High Alert, Expert Marksman, Basics of Survivability, Basic Firing Training, Advanced Firing Training, Concealment Expert.

Ship Upgrades - Spotting Plane upgrade(supercontainer),  Damage Control I, Secondary II, Steering Gears II, Concealment System I, Secondary Mod III.

This gives GK a 13.6 km detect and 11.6 km secondary storm. Agile, stealthy and mean. Fully signaled and camo'ed as well of course. The camo and secondary signal are crucial. Speed and ramming flags are fun.

When others turn away, KM turns IN. Your K/D ratio may fall, but enjoyment goes up.

 

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When your team won't push, and you're in a German BB, lead the push. 

If they won't follow, well, you were bound to lose anyway if no one will push. But if you start the push, maybe you can take people with you. And if no one follows you and you push alone into death, welp, no one cares about your survival rate but at least you'll kick some [edited]before you die. 

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I'm assuming by "zombie build", OP is referring to a damage soak/tank build of sorts.

In a situation like this, where I'm a fully secondary-built GK, I'm going to kite away from where I believe the enemy DD(s) to be located about 75% of the time. The other 25% involves me chasing down a single DD that's wandered too close and is trying to use smoke to cover its escape, with no luck thanks to my hydro. Note that I only go for the chase if I'm fairly certain that there is only that one enemy DD in the area.

And in brief response to those who say that KM BBs are built for brawling, I must say that it is still largely situational. Far too often, I see GK or FdG leading a suicidal charge of 1; it's not impossible to do well with an aggressive play style, but German BBs are still generally more useful at range early in the match. Don't underestimate the volume of fire you have in 12 shells on GK; you'll score citadels, and often.

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Also remember both the 406's and the 420's have a good fire chance with HE , Angled cruiser lighting you up , return the favor . Both are devastating to DD's as well , use the hydro and aircraft for smoked up enemies .

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Zombie Builds, also referred to as Survival Builds, focus on lessening the effects of fires / floods on a ship as a bare minimum goal.  An emphasis on improving consumable cooldowns and quantity is also used.

 

Example BB Zombie Build for a Tier IX-X BB.

19pt Capt

PT or PM

HA and AR (Though JoaT merits consideration)

BoS and SI

FP and CE

Upgrades:  MAM1, DCSM1, ASM1, DCSM2, CSM1, MBM3

 

The above may fluctuate a bit for Yamato & Musashi due to a pressing need for EM to help the terrible turret traverse.  USN BB upgrade system works differently for IX-X USN BBs.

 

This maximizes the amount of consumables on the ship (+1 charge for Repair Party with Repair Party II consumable, and another +1 from SI) and greatly affects what fires do to you.  Fire burn times are drastically reduced by the stacked combination of BoS trait and DCSM2 upgrade.  FP reduces fire chance but more importantly, it reduces the Max Zones of your ship that catch fire from 4 to 3.  Normally, the middle 2 zones, the superstructure area, are the easiest to set fire as it's very prominent.  If someone gets a decent side view, they can rake your ship and set 3-4 fires.  With FP, that superstructure zone becomes 1 zone instead of 2, and the max amount of fires that could be set on you will be 3, no matter what.

 

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I agree that early-game rushing is contra-indicated in KM BBs. They can score very nice damage in either HE or AP at range during the early game. Waiting until all red ships have been seen on the mini map allows for a reasoned approach. Even if all you have is the "ghost" of a previously spotted ship, you know where it was.

I have been guilty of charging too early, and it rarely ends well for me. I become a damage sink that allows alert team mates to get free shots in on the half-dozen or so lighting me up.

Pick your run carefully and commit to it. Know where your point-of-no-returns are. Many people get the willies when that storm of secondaries comes at them in their binoculars.

Caps that are still empty, with red DDs spotted well away, are prime areas to go. A non-torp red CA sliding out from behind an island is meat on the table. Paused, aimed, chain fire beats volley almost every time once the range closes. Four chances to hit the sweet spot instead of one. Non-IFHE HE citadels are attainable.

The best use as always is in a division, That way you have at least two people that aren't going to turn away the moment you commit.  LOL Expect THAT to happen a lot.

 

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the issue still remains. what to do when your team crumples, you lose your forward DDs, the score is like 0-3 and they control all 3 caps. Does this ship have a play? It seems like being unable to push against smaller ships like DDs and multiple CAs makes no move possible. 

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2 minutes ago, Raiiako said:

the issue still remains. what to do when your team crumples, you lose your forward DDs, the score is like 0-3 and they control all 3 caps. Does this ship have a play? It seems like being unable to push against smaller ships like DDs and multiple CAs makes no move possible. 

If the caps are in tight spaces, then you're [edited].  There's nothing effective you can really do - pushing will just get you deleted, and, at best, you might be able to do some damage.

If the caps aren't covered in islands, then you push. Because you can still maneuver OK, and with hydro running, you make a not-very-easy torp target. Plus, you've got lots of guns to delete stuff with that does pop up to shoot at you.

 

But yeah, overall, with no support, you're in a tough spot. The realistic best-case senario is that you push into a cap, stop them from accumulating points, and then die gloriously after maybe taking 1 or 2 of the opponents with you.  Whether that's enough to goose your team to action, who knows. But at least you'll have done something, and gotten some decent XP from it.

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