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Poppa_IKE

T7-10 Cruiser line advice/question

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I enjoy the challenge of playing Cruisers, but I get myself in trouble with being too aggressive or having poor maneuvering decisions. I'm working on both of those :) In the mean time, which cruiser line would be more forgiving to me as far as having the ability to take some damage?  Thanks for any info.  

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Cruisers and forgiving do not belong in the same sentence. If you screw up in a cruiser, unless the enemy is completely incompetent, you will suffer the dire consequences of your mistake.

The VMS are really fragile (except for Moskva, but that's more a BB anyway). RN, yeah nope. USN, OK, but you have to get in close to be effective, and without torps, that's risky. Don't know about the French. IJN is a little fragile, but you can stay at range and spam HE. KMS is tankier, flatter arcs, good AP, but terrible HE. I'd say IJN or Germans, probably the Japs. The USN isn't bad, but the arcs take getting used to.

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29 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Cruisers and forgiving do not belong in the same sentence. If you screw up in a cruiser, unless the enemy is completely incompetent, you will suffer the dire consequences of your mistake.

The VMS are really fragile (except for Moskva, but that's more a BB anyway). RN, yeah nope. USN, OK, but you have to get in close to be effective, and without torps, that's risky. Don't know about the French. IJN is a little fragile, but you can stay at range and spam HE. KMS is tankier, flatter arcs, good AP, but terrible HE. I'd say IJN or Germans, probably the Japs. The USN isn't bad, but the arcs take getting used to.

Eh... I wouldn't say you HAVE to get in close with US ships once you get used to their gunnery. Those 203mm AP shells can devastate at pretty much any range if you're shooting other cruisers, and range gives you the advantage of plunging fire on battleships. That said: No torpedoes. This can be a deal-breaker for some.

French seem to be fragile speedsters: Good guns (biggest on a cruiser at tier 10!), speed boost on all ships, uniform 100mm belt armor on all ships past the LG

IJN and German lines also both have "kiting" ships in that tier range: Myoko and Roon. Having played both I prefer the feel of the Roon, but that's not surprising given tier difference and the fact that Roon has a heal. For a further breakdown of line differences between the two though:

IJN
Pros: Good HE, fast long range torps (10km), LOTS of guns (every ship except Zao has five turrets), pretty speedy, Mogami gives choice of FIFTEEN (!) 155mm guns or ten 203mm guns
Cons: Fragile as said before, terrible torp arcs, turning circle leaves a lot to be desired, AA is okay at best, slow turrets and iffy gun arcs, best at long range, Myoko can be a paaaaaain

Germany
Pros: Good AP, best hydro in game (hail hydro!), well armored, surprisingly good secondaries if you get in a brawl, good at all ranges decent AA even without DFAA consumable
Cons: Few guns at first (8 on Yorck and Hipper), short range torps (6km), fat and very visible, HE is iffy at best though Roon and Hipper can make it work, slow and turning leaves a bit to be desired

Personally I say Germany. Yorck may basically be a tuned-up Pensacola that traded two guns for torpedoes and decent armor, but Hipper can take a bit more punishment than most of her peers, Roon is basically what would happen if Nurnberg was a heavy cruiser and, well, there's a reason they call her BATTLESHIP Hindenburg.

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Japanese

-Have mediocre armor. Nothing special, but not weak after Furutaka

-Good concealment. Zao in particular is very stealthy

Americans

-Have mediocre armor. A few like Pensacola (and probably the light cruiser split) are fragile, but I didn't really feel fragile playing them

-Radar. If used right, you will get much more information that will save you from entering a dangerous situation. Worth it's weight in armor

Germans

-Great armor. After Nurnberg, the turtleback is awesome

-Hydro. Good for avoiding torpedoes and mitigating damage

Russians

-Bad armor. These are fragile, but range can keep you at a distance here dodging shells is the more practical way to avoid damage

-Radar. Good for keeping DDs away and mitigating a torpedo threat. Few DD captains will dare close the distance on high-tier Russian cruisers

British

-Bad armor. You will take massive damage, so get used to it

-Great heal. At T8-10 this becomes even better. This can mitigate some damage

-Hydro/smoke. This combo lets you hide from some shells while remaining safe from a torpedo threat. Be aware, some BBs are good at shooting you with a spotter plane up

French

-Poor armor. Some of it is spaced, but this won't save you from BB shells

-Great maneuverability. With speed boost and some rudder upgrades, you will stay at range and be almost impossible to hit.

-Good concealment. You can disengage pretty easily with the concealment and speed

 

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

Cruisers and forgiving do not belong in the same sentence. If you screw up in a cruiser, unless the enemy is completely incompetent, you will suffer the dire consequences of your mistake.

True statement.

1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

Don't know about the French. IJN is a little fragile, but you can stay at range and spam HE. KMS is tankier, flatter arcs, good AP, but terrible HE. I'd say IJN or Germans, probably the Japs

My take ...

The IJN are good, but you get heavy cruisers with slower ROFs early on, which can be frustrating for newer players when they are facing CL with high rates of fire. This should take nothing away from the fact that they are good ships and quite competitive, just that they have a higher and steeper learning curve.

The French are good ships with good guns; and a unique armor scheme which can be difficult for the reds to pen. They are also CLs to tier 7 I believe, when they get Algerie, the first of their heavies. I would recommend this line over the IJN for that reason alone, and wait till you have more battles to grind the Japanese line.

The German cruiser line is a bit tankier, has good guns and good AP, with poor to mediocre HE. Did I say good AP; I meant GREAT AP. This is the line I would say will be your most rewarding in terms of fun per game played.

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12 hours ago, Landsraad said:

French seem to be fragile speedsters: Good guns (biggest on a cruiser at tier 10!), speed boost on all ships, uniform 100mm belt armor on all ships past the LG

I've run the American, German, British, and French Cruiser lines to tier 10 and I consider the French to be, overall, the best line of those 4. Keep in mind, this is my opinion. MN has the fewest lemons on the lot. (Jurien, tier 2) The rest range from being good to excellent. Their guns are pretty accurate and do respectable damage though the torpedoes are somewhat on the weak side. They're also pretty robust, not as tough as the KMS Cruisers, (what is?) but far from squishy. I got Henri IV not too long ago and have only 20 battles with her so far but I've gotten better average damage and XP with Henri than I've gotten with Hindenberg. And Henri's survivability is on par with Hindy.

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9 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

MN has the fewest lemons on the lot. (Jurien, tier 2) The rest range from being good to excellent.

Generally agree but you probably want to add La Gallissonniere to that list. MOST players can't make that one work.

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I just don't get the French cruiser line. Algerie sucks compared to Pensacola and soon-to-be T7 New Orleans, just can't get her to work. She feels a lot more sluggish than the USN treaty cruisers while her durability feels about the same, her guns are weaker, have worse arcs, and cannot LOLPEN angled cruisers. I don't care at all that she has torpedoes because past Tier 5 torpedo runs in cruisers become significantly more risky.

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Cruiser lines that are the best at mitigating problems with bad maneuvering / over aggression are probably the French and German cruiser lines.

Explanation:

French have speed boost and spaced armor - former can make getting hit hard, later can make you get away with things

- Also French ships in general have very good firing ranges which should reduce the risk of being hit in the first place

- Sufficient shell velocity

- French AP in general does good damage, HE is very strong

German ships generally have good turtleback armor schemes along with reinforced casemates and lower bow

- German ships also have good firing ranges and good shell velocity

- AP deals very high damage [though loses penetration fast at distance]

- However these ships are fairly slow and damage potential doesn't really become apparent till higher tiers

Other lines:

USN - armor is generally lacking, limited ability to project dpm at long ranges - requires good positioning and map knowledge

[though generally high raw dpm in general with fairly strong HE and AP] - also they gain strong consumables at t8+ [radar]

IJN - citadel isn't very high but it can still be rekt [until t10], deck armor is good on some of the ships, but long range capability does not really become possible until T9,  turret traverse requires some planning overcome

HE is very strong, concealment is good but will require some trigger discipline to use properly, also speed is generally decent - could be a viable 3rd choice

RN - very low armor - definitely need to know how to maneuver - shells have low velocity - poor dpm projection at long ranges - guns are only 6" - limited penetration

- very good at contesting caps and very high dpm [only against broadsides] - among best concealment + smoke - gets very good heal

VMF - limited armor - w/out the best steering - again need to know how to maneuver - guns have very high velocity [/ penetration] and good range also gains radar at t8+

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I would highly suggest you go down either IJN or KM cruiser line first.

IJN cruisers are very stealthy and maneuverable.  Playing this line helps you learn how to take advantage of concealment and WSAD. They have top tier HE alpha and DPM as well and HE is most cruiser's bread and butter.

KM cruisers are tankier but less stealthy and nimble. They are kinda jack of all trades. They can do both mid-to-long range and close quarter combat reasonably well. They have low HE damage but improved HE penetration, which means you will have lower but more consistent HE damage. Their AP has high alpha damage so you need to learn how to catch broadside target to make best use out of that AP.

French cruisers lie somewhere between IJN and KM style. They have good HE dpm but lack stealth. It is all about WSAD hack. Once you master IJN and KM cruisers, you should have no problem with them

USN VMF and RN cruisers are more challenging to play. It is better to climb up those lines slowly and take your time to learn and adapt.

 

Edited by Exciton8964
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As others have stated, the line that is forgiving in regards to being able to take a bit of damage, or avoid taking damage at all is the German Cruisers. Tier 7-10 are really fun, and the payoff at the end of the line at Tier 10 is probably the best cruiser overall in the game, the Hindenburg. This will probably be the best option, as German cruisers will allow you to practice all the different play styles, whether it be aggressive or more long range harassment, and that will help you with other nation's ships as well.

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For what it’s worth high tier VMF, French, and IJN are long range flame throwers. Seriously my best games I stay back at max range 16-18 km and lob HE. Racked up a witherer and high caliber today doing just that. Pushing those ca early in the game is a fast trip back to port. 

RN and USN cruisers have less range. Both rely on positioning and cover. RN has better stealth but only has 6 in guns and ap rounds. USN has great guns but I creep around islands and pounce on unsuspecting targets. 

KM have the best armour and are great late game but pushing early is a port call. 

Up tier play is slow, methodical and waiting unless you play dds where you spot and spam torps

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On 4/26/2018 at 11:01 AM, Poppa_IKE said:

I enjoy the challenge of playing Cruisers, but I get myself in trouble with being too aggressive or having poor maneuvering decisions. I'm working on both of those :) In the mean time, which cruiser line would be more forgiving to me as far as having the ability to take some damage?  Thanks for any info.  

I've slowly learned I have better games in cruisers where I don't start out playing aggressive and let the battle unfold in front of me. Start slow and finish strong by picking off weak/damaged targets works pretty good for me. Cruiser battles can be hit or miss as all it takes is one salvo from a BB to take away most or all your HP. There are several cruisers for example like the Belfast or Fiji that I play more aggressively but I have the smoke option that helps stay undetected while doing nice damage to enemy ships.

Edited by dust340man
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1 hour ago, dust340man said:

I've slowly learned I have better games in cruisers where I don't start out playing aggressive and let the battle unfold in front of me. Start slow and finish strong by picking off weak/damaged targets works pretty good for me. Cruiser battles can be hit or miss as all it takes is one salvo from a BB to take away most or all your HP. There are several cruisers for example like the Belfast or Fiji that I play more aggressively but I have the smoke option that helps stay undetected while doing nice damage to enemy ships.

It's true that you should try to not be overly aggressive at the start, but what I find more and more often these days is that it's the cruisers doing most of the pushing, while the battleships take so damn long to really get into position and do much, if anything. Cruisers die easily without BB support.

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11 hours ago, Zionas said:

It's true that you should try to not be overly aggressive at the start, but what I find more and more often these days is that it's the cruisers doing most of the pushing, while the battleships take so damn long to really get into position and do much, if anything. Cruisers die easily without BB support.

That’s exactly what I do. I sit with the bbs and let them get into position. If I run ahead I’m an easy target. If I stay near the bbs they are the target

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