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Kenjister

Even AL is ripping on Izumo

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Love it or hate it, the Azure Lane collab just went live on the AL side...  and it seems like they've actually done their work.

Neptune has a superheal that kicks in when she's low and buffed AP.
Monarch has adrenaline rush and a heal.
Saint-Louis has a temporary speed boost with evasion.
Roon has trolly armor and uses both AP and HE.
And Izumo?

Izumo takes increased HE damage.

Well played AL, well played :cap_cool:

Anybody think Izumo could use some buffs now that Musashi is occupying a similar t9 spot and heavily outclasses her in every way?  Or is Musashi just an OP monster.

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12 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

Anybody think Izumo could use some buffs now that Musashi is occupying a similar t9 spot and heavily outclasses her in every way?  Or is Musashi just an OP monster.

Both.

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17 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

Anybody think Izumo could use some buffs now that Musashi is occupying a similar t9 spot and heavily outclasses her in every way?  Or is Musashi just an OP monster.

 

5 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Both.

^

Not gonna happen, though. If people could have a ship as powerful as Musashi for free from the tech tree, it might cut into Musashi sales.

FXP prems occupy an interesting spot in the game. We have three of them and all three are very powerful.

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There are almost zero reasons to play Yamato if you own Musashi :cap_yes:

Izumo needs to be bad, otherwise, how is WG going to get money from people buying Musashi or Yamato?

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19 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

Love it or hate it, the Azure Lane collab just went live on the AL side...  and it seems like they've actually done their work.

Neptune has a superheal that kicks in when she's low and buffed AP.
Monarch has adrenaline rush and a heal.
Saint-Louise has a temporary speed boost with evasion.
Roon has trolly armor and uses both AP and HE.
And Izumo?

Izumo takes increased HE damage.

Well played AL, well played :cap_cool:

Anybody think Izumo could use some buffs now that Musashi is occupying a similar t9 spot and heavily outclasses her in every way?  Or is Musashi just an OP monster.

Absolutely.  But the thing is that the Izumo's main guns are actually solid, for the most part.

Some thoughts.

1. It'd be nice if they'd flip the C turret around from being an aft facing turret to being a bow facing turret, like the Nelson's C turret. This would make it SO much easier to fight anything ahead of you, since the rotational distance needed if you made a simple turn to would be greatly lessened, though at the cost of increasing the rotational  distance if you were trying to engage in a fighting retreat and wanted to do the same maneuver for an enemy to your rear.

2. It'd also be nice if the B turret was allowed to rotate 360o.

3. This one isn't really a buff.  Cosmetically, last I recall, the Izumo was a rather boring model.  Her decks were rather barren in comparison to models of BBs that were actually built.  It'd be nice if the Izumo had a more "lived in" look to her.

And as a related aside, why didn't the devs use the "Number 13-class" battleship design that was intended as the successor class to the Kii-class BB?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_13-class_battleship

And where the heck is the Tosa class BB?

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1 minute ago, MrDeaf said:

There are almost zero reasons to play Yamato if you own Musashi :cap_yes:

Yamato is undeniably a better ship, but I prefer playing Musashi and I couldn't even begin to tell you why.

It's not because of MM, Musashi sees tier 10 the vast majority of the time anyways. It's not because of credits, I have 400+ million anyways. Maybe it's because I feel less pressure to perform when driving a T9 as opposed to a T10 ship? I don't know.

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I believe the main problem with Izumo is the drastically different playstyle it presents compared to Amagi before and Yamato after it.  For the same reason that WG excluded Nelson from the British BB line, Izumo should have been excluded as well for the sake of playstyle cohesion.  But I honestly don't ever see it happening.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yamato is undeniably a better ship, but I prefer playing Musashi and I couldn't even begin to tell you why.

It's not because of MM, Musashi sees tier 10 the vast majority of the time anyways. It's not because of credits, I have 400+ million anyways. Maybe it's because I feel less pressure to perform when driving a T9 as opposed to a T10 ship? I don't know.

Tier 9 vs Tier 10 does make a difference over time in the games you see.  Plus the occasional top tier roflstomp in Musashi leaves a much more lasting impact than the same game after game in yamato.

I believe, tier for tier, Musashi is actually the better ship.

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I'm under the impression barring any exceptions that t9 is the turd tier to motivate you to get to t10.

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35 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

Love it or hate it, the Azure Lane collab just went live on the AL side...  and it seems like they've actually done their work.

Neptune has a superheal that kicks in when she's low and buffed AP.
Monarch has adrenaline rush and a heal.
Saint-Louis has a temporary speed boost with evasion.
Roon has trolly armor and uses both AP and HE.
And Izumo?

Izumo takes increased HE damage.

Well played AL, well played :cap_cool:

Anybody think Izumo could use some buffs now that Musashi is occupying a similar t9 spot and heavily outclasses her in every way?  Or is Musashi just an OP monster.

Is this AL, the infamous AL Bundy ?

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Just now, Ace_04 said:

I believe the main problem with Izumo is the drastically different playstyle it presents compared to Amagi before and Yamato after it.  For the same reason that WG excluded Nelson from the British BB line, Izumo should have been excluded as well for the sake of playstyle cohesion.  But I honestly don't ever see it happening.

I think it's more like Izumo doesn't have the armor, range or concealment to be played the way people constantly suggest they play it.

I think this is the worst part of Izumo, which makes it ill suited for the 'bow on' playstyle.

VqlJtUv.png

If the 32mm armor all over doesn't do you in, then it's these 356mm barbettes that sit extremely high.

Like, seriously, what is the point in 508mm turret faces when the barbettes are so thin and sit this high above the ship?

And if you go bow on, that's where you catch all the shells

liAoiaQ.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

I believe the main problem with Izumo is the drastically different playstyle it presents compared to Amagi before and Yamato after it.  For the same reason that WG excluded Nelson from the British BB line, Izumo should have been excluded as well for the sake of playstyle cohesion.  But I honestly don't ever see it happening.

Actually, I think that part of the problem with the Nelson is that the RN BB line had a lot of tier 7 options, i.e. the Admiral class BC (the Hood), Nelson, KGV.  And they had to pick one.  The Admiral class was probably best left out for use in a BC line perhaps at a later date.  The Nelson might have been a good fit for tier 7, if they'd found a way to make the KGV into a tier 8, since other than its oddball turret layout, she has a lot in common with the Colorado and Nagato.

 

As for the Izumo being excluded for its drastically different play style, I think that what we see here is an example of how WG has this design philosophy in WoWS of intentionally trying to design ships to be unique even to the point of creating ahistorical uniqueness, rather than accepting that warships (and battleships in particular) from the original HMS  Dreadnought on forward became more and more similar as naval architects slowly decided on what were the best design practices.

Another thought.  The Nelson actually makes historical sense, because she was designed in an era (the early 20's after the signing of the Washington Naval Treaty) where tonnages were limited.  The Nelson design is the way it is to save tonnage by concentrating its main guns together so that the main armor belt can be shortened.  However, I strongly suspect that this rationale wouldn't exist for the Izumo when she was designed, particularly given how enormous she is.  So it just seems that an all turrets forward design for such an enormous ship isn't logical, which is probably one of the reasons why the design was rejected by the IJN.

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21 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yamato is undeniably a better ship, but I prefer playing Musashi and I couldn't even begin to tell you why.

It's not because of MM, Musashi sees tier 10 the vast majority of the time anyways. It's not because of credits, I have 400+ million anyways. Maybe it's because I feel less pressure to perform when driving a T9 as opposed to a T10 ship? I don't know.

The main benefit of it being tier 9 is, there's a good chance you'll be matched up against an Izumo.

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11 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

I think it's more like Izumo doesn't have the armor, range or concealment to be played the way people constantly suggest they play it.

I think this is the worst part of Izumo, which makes it ill suited for the 'bow on' playstyle.

 

I think you have a very good point here.  Everyone says bow on but she loses her B turret a lot, and sitting bow on makes it easy to HE spam her to death.

And as much as I hate to say it, having a weakness to HE isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as you're compensated elsewhere.  Perhaps if Izumo was to get an improved rudder shift and turning radius people would be more likely to play her mobile and midrange?  She does seem designed for that with her great citadel protection when angled and relatively fast turret traverse for an IJN BB.

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8 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

I think you have a very good point here.  Everyone says bow on but she loses her B turret a lot, and sitting bow on makes it easy to HE spam her to death.

And as much as I hate to say it, having a weakness to HE isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as you're compensated elsewhere.  Perhaps if Izumo was to get an improved rudder shift and turning radius people would be more likely to play her mobile and midrange?  She does seem designed for that with her great citadel protection when angled and relatively fast turret traverse for an IJN BB.

Her mobility and speed actually isn't that bad.  I didn't camp much in her, for the sake of being HE spammed to death.  Keeping on the move seemed to work much better for me.

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Well I've got two suggestions that would definitely improve the Izumo, neither of which is ever going to happen as far as I can tell.

Suggestion 1 (full overhaul): A and B turrets currently sit ridiculously high off the deck for what appears to be almost NO reason. Each could stand to be lowered by about a turret-height. "But wait," I hear you say, "doesn't that mean that the back of the B turret is now seriously cramping C turret, if there's clearance between them at all?" Well that's where part two, the most important part, comes into play. Raise C turret over B and flip it around. Now all three turrets face the same direction AND can superfire over each other to make Izumo basically a Japanese triple-turreted 16-inch gun Richelieu. Izumo has mutated from a dumb little lizard into a full-blown Matthew Broderick Godzilla of a ship that can terrorize tier 9 and put fear into even tier 10s. Her offense is improved, her defense is improved (no more barbette cesspool), the ship overall is just better. It's never going to happen.

Suggestion 2 (the reasonable one): Flip the C turret. Put that thing so that its back is up against the superstructure and give the ship what is basically a Nelson layout. You might even be able to lower A and B turrets a tad in this configuration too, though not by too awful much. Izumo is now not so much a monster, but more comfortable as all of her main gun turrets can move in unison rather than waiting for derpy in the back to pull a full 180 every time you swap sides.

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That's hilarious!

 

40 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

[snip]

liAoiaQ.jpg

Maybe kinda somewhat still okay with a secondary build. Just got the Yamato and I'm so looking forward to trying her's out once retraining is done.

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Simultaneously grinding Izumo and Ibuki is the worst tactical decision I've made in game since I decided to join a beach party in my Montana in front of 2 Yamato's and 2 Shimakaze's...

It is a poor ship, and worse, not very enjoyable.

 

I'm surprised Monarch's AL ability isn't related to her being famous and historical though...

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52 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Her mobility and speed actually isn't that bad.  I didn't camp much in her, for the sake of being HE spammed to death.  Keeping on the move seemed to work much better for me.

This, the ship is actually pretty maneuverable. I found she worked best to roll with the team, then park and provide area denial / tanking, then move with the team once the objective is accomplished. I actually did pretty good in her 60% WR in 71 games. This was while grinding the whole ship, no fxp used and derping around with a secondary build. I did also have help from clan mates in a div some times.

My biggest gripes with the ship are inconsistent guns, some times they are great, other times horrible. You're typically only firing 2 turrets. You eat a ton of HE damage. It feels like she just needs slight buffs to become decent. I do also think playing through Izumo will help you to better play Yamato, haven't tested this theory out though.

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6 minutes ago, mofton said:

Simultaneously grinding Izumo and Ibuki is the worst tactical decision I've made in game since I decided to join a beach party in my Montana in front of 2 Yamato's and 2 Shimakaze's...

It is a poor ship, and worse, not very enjoyable.

 

I'm surprised Monarch's AL ability isn't related to her being famous and historical though...

Eh? How about Izumo, Ibuki, Donskoi, FDG at the same time?

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Just now, Kevs02Accord said:

This, the ship is actually pretty maneuverable. I found she worked best to roll with the team, then park and provide area denial / tanking, then move with the team once the objective is accomplished. I actually did pretty good in her 60% WR in 71 games. This was while grinding the whole ship, no fxp used and derping around with a secondary build. I did also have help from clan mates in a div some times.

My biggest gripes with the ship are inconsistent guns, some times they are great, other times horrible. You're typically only firing 2 turrets. You eat a ton of HE damage. It feels like she just needs slight buffs to become decent. I do also think playing through Izumo will help you to better play Yamato, haven't tested this theory out though.


Hey, we did almost the same thing!  She's definitely mobile.  It's just currently Izumo has no real standout features to leverage, while her weaknesses are vary pronounced.  Thought it'd be cool if she could get some strength that wasn't a straight buff to deck armor or a better turret arrangement.

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8 minutes ago, mofton said:

Simultaneously grinding Izumo and Ibuki is the worst tactical decision I've made in game since I decided to join a beach party in my Montana in front of 2 Yamato's and 2 Shimakaze's...

It is a poor ship, and worse, not very enjoyable.

 

I'm surprised Monarch's AL ability isn't related to her being famous and historical though...

I can feel your pain.  i did not enjoy the ibuki in the slightest.  such an awful ship.  i have grinded 2 tier 9 cruisers so far.  the other was the balti.  Balti is a far superior ship in about every way.  better armor.  better guns.  better turret angles.  great AA. comparable stealth.  you dont get torps, but you do get radar.   the ibuki has no carry potential compared to the balti.   i really wish they did something to make it better/different than the previous 4 tiers outside of giving it a heal. better guns or armor would be nice. 

 

im getting the izu today, and im already feeling the pain before i bought it. 

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My opinion on the Izumo, it makes a damned good punching bag. I would rather grind out the experience for the Yamoto with the Amagi like we did back in alpha.

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1 hour ago, Amenhir said:

I'm under the impression barring any exceptions that t9 is the turd tier to motivate you to get to t10.

There's an element of truth to but I dont think it is that bad.

DDs at T9 are pretty good from what I see.

St Louis is a keeper. Neptune can induce fits of rage on the reds, then get nuked. Ibuki, Roon and Donskoi are solid. I'm weird, I like Baltimore.

Alsace, Iowa and Lion: all good battleships. FDG seems to have "issues".

And then there's Izumo...

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