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Angry_Slav

Kii Build recommendations

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Hey all, I've taken a break from WoWs for some time now, played it back in the early days and only came back earlier this year. 

I'm seriously considering buying the Kii, Atago, and HSF Harakaze during the next sale. (Going full wallet warrior :fish_viking:)

I used to play a ton of WoT and owned a fair amount of premium vehicles in that game. 

Regarding the Kii, I am very much tempted to go for a full brawling build of sorts. Having played the Amagi and loving it, it's my understanding the Kii plays relatively similarly. 

Currently thinking something like:

Capt. Skills:

Priority Target 

Expert Marksman

Adrenaline Rush

Superintendent &  Basics of Suitability 

Advanced Firing Training and Manual Fire for Secondary Armament. 

Upgrades:

Main Arm Mod 1 or Secondary Arm Mod 1

Damage Con Mod 1

Secondary Battery Mod 1

Damage Con Mod 2

Concealment Mod 1

 

She's not a true brawler like some of the Kreigsmarine ships, but I do think it's a build that I would have fun with and would earn a decent amount of credits. I think this build puts her secondaries around 7km range or so, 20% and 20% buffs on top of the 5km base.  

Any input is appreciated, thank you.

If I have posted this topic in the wrong area, I do apologize. 

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25 minutes ago, Angry_Slav said:

 

Hello and thank you for sharing!

First of all, honestly Kii isn't a very good ship at least in the current meta.

Second of all, she particularly isn't very good for a secondary build. Her mainstay secondary armament, the IJN 100mm, cannot penetrate anything beyond and at 19mm. Meaning they will not help you to deal with tier VIII-X destroyers and cannot damage enemy battleships -- the main purpose of the secondaries at the moment.

Last but not least, Kii's base secondary range isn't great, you will really need to get very close to put them into good use, for example around 7-5km. Kii, unlike Amagi or German battleships usually considered to be the mainstay for secondary build battleships, do not have a sound turtleback to protect her citadel, meaning close range combat is extremely risky and costly. Plus, since you already have torpedoes, enemies would prefer to stay away from you in the first place.

Kii is a large battleship with weak deck armor that can be set ablaze by cruisers easily, therefore I recommend:

1. Preventative Maintenance and or Priority Target

2. Expert Marksmen and or Adrenaline rush

3. Superintendent and or high alert or BFT (AA build)

4. Concealment (must), Fire Prevention and or AFT (AA build)

I hope you find this helpful! Good luck and fair seas!

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Would you recommend that same build for Co-op?   I got one from Santa and just haven't gotten around to doing anything with it yet. 

  You pretty much HAVE to brawl much of the time, because the bots don't camp- and they don't CARE that you have torpedoes, lol.   I was figuring to use the torpedoes for close range work, while trying to play it like a "typical" IJN BB.   Who knows- I haven't tried to play it yet, and you just can't tell what's going to click in the pve arena, lol.   Lots of ships pvp players swear AT are favorites of pve guys.  (and vice versa!)   I have played Mutsu- and it can be fun- but it's a gimped tier 7 playing at tier 6- and feels like it much of the time.   Those single torpedo derp tubes can be pretty amusing at times, though:Smile_teethhappy:.

  Knowing just how squishy the side armor on these IJN BB's can be, doesn't make me think "brawler" when I see one.   And you can't just stomp the rudder and bring the ship around like you can with a lot of the US and French BB's to mitigate that.

  One of these days (tm),  I'll bring Kii out of port and give it a whirl.   There's a long list of purchased-but-not-set-up tree ships ahead of it, though.  (Roon; QE; Bretagne; Normandie; the T8 French CA, etc.)

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Kii is great in that she has amazing AA that would make a USN BB blush and it's all in long-range realm instead of short-range self defense like the USN's 20mm and 40mm AA nests. She has great kiting armor backed up by her turret placement and her torpedo tubes.

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The Kii has a very strong AA quality that becomes highly potent when fully spec for it.

 

Usually when I see a ship have a strong specific attribute, I would build it in a way that emphasizes on it making it more specialized instead of making it more rounded.

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The selling point of Kii is AA that actually surpasses her same tiered USN BB counterparts.  If you got AA that beats North Carolina and Alabama in Tier VIII, that is A LOT OF AA.

 

One big reason I'm averse to brawling with Kii is that her armor scheme is not as good as Amagi's.  She eats big, big damage in brawls, especially when a mistake is made.

 

That said, if you simply want to try to bring a different flavor of Amagi play, then you could do the AA Build but just replace AAGM2 with ASM1, then your gunnery then becomes pretty dang close to Amagi with ASM1, while still having better AA.  The AA like this won't be the same as with AAGM2 in a proper AA Build, but your main battery behavior will be more consistent.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Hey

The Kii is not worth the money for a premium; if someone wants a premium T8 BB, get the Alabama, so much better overall.  I wished I had instead bought the Atago; but I already have the Takao which is the ARP version of the same ship.  The Kii needs a serious buff to the armor to be an effective T8 BB IMHO.

 

Pete

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Kii is fine as it is, but it is a second-line support BB, not a frontliner, which is her major weakness. She is essentially trying to fill a role that would normally be taken by a heavy cruiser, but I would rather just take Tirpitz, Amagi or Alabama instead. The Kii is NOT to the Amagi what the Tirpitz is to the Bismarck, torpedoes notwithstanding.

It's not a bad ship, per se, but she has a specific playstyle that is regrettably very selfish and relies on kiting enemy BBs and luring enemies into making aggressive mistakes, which leads to mixed results. If your team melts around you and leaves you alone, you might join them. I have a hard time carrying in this ship unlike other BBs because of it's lackluster armor scheme. Even the Alabama has better armor, and that ship isn't the most well-armored, either.

She's a great counter to CVs that like to prey on BBs and it's nice to have torps for self-defense when enemy ships get uncomfortably close, but other than that she's kinda niche and arguably inferior to her sister-ship, the Amagi.

Edited by Spectacular_Insanity

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Hey

My personal opinion is that Wargaming did a disservice to the Kii by not making it more durable; as least on part with other T8 BB's; I much prefer my Gascogne over sailing with the Kii.  I find the guns are better (even with the dispersion) and the armor is tankier too.  I can handle the armor being weaker if the guns behave but the Kii just sucks for me.  Sure it has good AA but how many CV's do we see, the secondaries cannot deal with DD's, the guns are erratic like the Germans for me, and the armor is just flat out strange.  This ship needs a buff to making it compete with other T8 premiums.  I wanted a Japanese T8 BB but now I wish I had just gone for the Atago (I have Takao already though).  Alabama is literally twice as good as the Kii, a no buy for me.

 

Pete

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Two things:
- Kii is NOT a brawler, regardless of whether she has torpedoes or not. She has them for those situations where she's forced to get into an up close engagement, but like all IJN BBs, she's meant to be backline support at around 15km from targets where her guns are most consistent (that sweet spot where vertical dispersion gets better).
- Her AA is on par with North Carolina and Alabama, not better or worse. It's still very strong AA and not to be underestimated. It is *significantly* stronger than Amagi's, of course.

You build Kii almost the same as you would an Amagi or Yamato captain: pure survivability.

1) PT (a case could be made for PM, but I personally prefer knowing when half the enemy team is aiming their guns at me suddenly)
2) EM, AR
3) SI + either BOS or Vigilance, although BOS is likely better as you'll rarely be getting up close to DDs ... just don't keep sailing in a straight line for several minutes when spotted.
4) CE and FP. AFT may be tempting, but honestly, it's likely to be a shared captain, so may well stick with these two as they'll serve you well.

For modules:
MAM1 (although a case could be made for AAM1 to protect the AA mounts, but I personally prefer the former for Kii)
DCSM1 (duh)
AAG2 (improved AA range is a no brainer on this ship as I find the base dispersion on her already pretty good. That being said, ASM1 is still a very good choice here)
SGM2 (Kii actually has really good rudder shift ... right in between Alabama's and Tirpitz', two ships known for their good rudders)
CSM1 (duh, no other viable option)

Kii is an excellent ship. I honestly can't understand why some people are having problems with it. Kite at an angle with her and maintain range (but don't be a border humping idiot firing at her max range) and you'll do fine with her. She can't handle brawling as she gets melted if she shows broadside. Although those torps will at least come in handy if you're forced into that kind of a situation. And many ships WILL try and rush you because so few Kiis play on the server and most players didn't get the memo about her torps, lol.

Edited by KaptainKaybe

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On 5/9/2018 at 12:28 AM, KaptainKaybe said:

Two things:
- Kii is NOT a brawler, regardless of whether she has torpedoes or not. She has them for those situations where she's forced to get into an up close engagement, but like all IJN BBs, she's meant to be backline support at around 15km from targets where her guns are most consistent (that sweet spot where vertical dispersion gets better).
- Her AA is on par with North Carolina and Alabama, not better or worse. It's still very strong AA and not to be underestimated. It is *significantly* stronger than Amagi's, of course.

You build Kii almost the same as you would an Amagi or Yamato captain: pure survivability.

1) PT (a case could be made for PM, but I personally prefer knowing when half the enemy team is aiming their guns at me suddenly)
2) EM, AR
3) SI + either BOS or Vigilance, although BOS is likely better as you'll rarely be getting up close to DDs ... just don't keep sailing in a straight line for several minutes when spotted.
4) CE and FP. AFT may be tempting, but honestly, it's likely to be a shared captain, so may well stick with these two as they'll serve you well.

For modules:
MAM1 (although a case could be made for AAM1 to protect the AA mounts, but I personally prefer the former for Kii)
DCSM1 (duh)
AAG2 (improved AA range is a no brainer on this ship as I find the base dispersion on her already pretty good. That being said, ASM1 is still a very good choice here)
SGM2 (Kii actually has really good rudder shift ... right in between Alabama's and Tirpitz', two ships known for their good rudders)
CSM1 (duh, no other viable option)

Kii is an excellent ship. I honestly can't understand why some people are having problems with it. Kite at an angle with her and maintain range (but don't be a border humping idiot firing at her max range) and you'll do fine with her. She can't handle brawling as she gets melted if she shows broadside. Although those torps will at least come in handy if you're forced into that kind of a situation. And many ships WILL try and rush you because so few Kiis play on the server and most players didn't get the memo about her torps, lol.

Hey

because so few Kiis play on the server .............That's because she is garbage and isn't worth playing; why play Kii when you have the Alabama or even the older Tirpitz which are much better T8 BB's.

 

Pete

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5 hours ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

because so few Kiis play on the server .............That's because she is garbage and isn't worth playing; why play Kii when you have the Alabama or even the older Tirpitz which are much better T8 BB's.

 

Pete

Alabama is a fabulous BB, one of the best around, period.

 

Tirpitz is amazing when she's Top Tier, but in a IX or X match, a lot less so.  The problem is an old one... Unreliable German BB Guns outside brawls and knife fights.  Long range secondaries are great, but in a Tier X match, the engagement ranges are 15km+, and that's where the German 380mm rifles are just simply garbage. 

 

Another issue is the game unique feature of German BBs being vulnerable to AP Dive Bombers.  From USN CVs of Tier VIII-X they have options of slotting AP Dive Bombers.  Still in-testing Graf Zeppelin has them.  German BBs are the only BB line that actually has to worry about getting 1-shotted by AP Bombers, because the Germans designed their ships to refight WWI / Jutland instead of moving on to more advanced protection designs like every other real navy did after WWI.  Tirpitz in the game is especially vulnerable because her AA is super-abysmally-awfully-BAD!  Bismarck, FDG, GK can whittle down some bombers before they get hit, but Tirpitz's AA is so bad they do nothing against bombers and end up eating the entire bombing run's ordnance.  I remember running Ryujo's Tier VI bombers back and forth over the top of Tirpitz to insult the player to show that their pathetic AA was of no worry to a CV.  I lost no bombers to that sh*t AA, so any CV can unload 100% of their power against Tirpitz.  Unless a ship with Defensive Fire was nearby to help, she'll eat everything.

 

Kii is fine.  As long as you're not a moron showing full broadsides, she is good to go.  She can tank anything except 460mm AP with proper angling.  She is still fast.  Her Main Battery is still very reliable.  Not as super-accurate as Amagi, but good enough.  But unlike German BBs, Amagi, Kii actually has AA to defender herself when a CV pops up.  When you got CVs, the bad AA Battleships are quaking in fear, posting on the boards and showing where the big, bad CV inappropriately touched them.  If you are a High Rolla, then the Makoto Kobayashi makes Kii an even better option.

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Hey

I would still rather sail into battle with a Tirpitz over the Kii any day; because, day in and day out, I can count on the Tirpitz more than the Kii to get work done.  If the Kii was so good then you would see more of them than the Tirpitz but that just isn't the case.

 

Pete

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3 hours ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

I would still rather sail into battle with a Tirpitz over the Kii any day; because, day in and day out, I can count on the Tirpitz more than the Kii to get work done.  If the Kii was so good then you would see more of them than the Tirpitz but that just isn't the case.

 

Pete

What work?  Beating up on Tier VI-VII?  That's easy.  It's when you're in a Tier X match, that's where Tirpitz spectacularly fails.  Most especially if any tier CV is in a match with Tirpitz.

 

You're associating by Battles Played with success?  Then why aren't Pensacola, Lexington doing so well?

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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this is the point of the question, Kii is a ship designed to handle very well against CVs, but population of this class of ship is very low (13 ~ 15% in my opinion). when Kii falls into a game without any CVs, he ends up being beaten (in terms of performance) with some ease by his main competitors.
he is a very situational ship...

original text in PT-BR, sorry for any translation error.

Spoiler

este é o ponto da questão, Kii é um navio projetado para lidar muito bem contra CVs, mas população desse classe de navio é muito baixa (13~15%, na minha opinião). quando Kii cai em uma partida sem CVs, ele acaba sendo superado (em termos de desempenho) com uma certa facilidade por seus principais concorrentes.
ele é um navio muito situacional...

 

Edited by xavier_556

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

What work?  Beating up on Tier VI-VII?  That's easy.  It's when you're in a Tier X match, that's where Tirpitz spectacularly fails.  Most especially if any tier CV is in a match with Tirpitz.

 

You're associating by Battles Played with success?  Then why aren't Pensacola, Lexington doing so well?

Hey

What's your problem; getting work done is being an asset to the team, sinking ships, helping your team succeed.  I'm saying that a T8 Tirpitz is better, more consistent than the Kii, all things being equal.  Are you having a hard time comprehending that fact?  Stats would back that fact up.

 

Pete

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1 hour ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

What's your problem; getting work done is being an asset to the team, sinking ships, helping your team succeed.  I'm saying that a T8 Tirpitz is better, more consistent than the Kii, all things being equal.  Are you having a hard time comprehending that fact?  Stats would back that fact up.

 

Pete

That's the problem. Tirpitz is inconsistent with those awful German 15" guns.  Unless Tirpitz, Bismarck can brawl, they're useless ships.  The issue is their unreliable gunnery unless they're in brawling, knife fighting ranges.  Getting into that setting is much more easy for them beating up on lousy Tier VI ships, against many BBs that can't even get to 21kts and armor that can't save them from even bad 15" shells.  That's the easy part, all the VIII BBs have it easy smashing lower tiered ships.

 

Again, when you're fighting a High Tier Match, i.e. Tiers VIII-X, it's a whole different game.  There, unlike the lower and mid tiers, practically everyone has good range, good gun power, good accuracy... Except for the German BBs outside brawling ranges, they struggle.  I'm not making that up.  It's a recurring complaint German BB players have.  I'm on these boards enough to see these complaints by German BB players.  They even have the same issues with IX FDG and even X GK, despite GK having 12 guns to help alleviate gun problems.  You talk about inconsistency, but the German BBs are the most inconsistent BBs in this game, especially once you are talking Tiers VIII or higher.

 

Stats?  Kii was doing better in Tier VIII BBs than Tirpitz before Warships Today took a sh*t.  Roma, Kii, Alabama were about the top in VIII Battleships.

 

And I say again, Tirpitz with those inconsistent guns, coupled with an amazing vulnerability to air attacks, make her a very suspect ship in today's WoWS.  CVs may not be that common, but when they *DO* show up, well buckle up Herr Tirpitz, it's going to be a rough ride when those bombers come.  LOL!  There's so many complaints about CV AP bombers nuking Battleships, but when you pay attention about the ones raging about it, they're all German BB players!  And Tirpitz has the WORST AA of any German BB past Tier V.

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AA on the captain and then a conventional module build (survivability/main battery centric) for me. Of course I'm insane, so my standard Japanese BB/CC captain build is AA... The only ones I don't use an AA captain build on is Ashitaka, Mutsu, Kawachi, Ishizuchi, and Musashi.

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000100000000010000100110019

Edited by AdmiralPiett

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4 hours ago, AdmiralPiett said:

AA on the captain and then a conventional module build (survivability/main battery centric) for me. Of course I'm insane, so my standard Japanese BB/CC captain build is AA... The only ones I don't use an AA captain build on is Ashitaka, Mutsu, Kawachi, Ishizuchi, and Musashi.

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000100000000010000100110019

Ship Comrade isn't working.  I'm assuming ASM1 instead of AAGM2.  Do you got Manual AA and AFT on the captain?  Then I see that as a decent compromise.  Help out main battery dispersion some while still putting teeth to the 100mm AA which is the heart of Kii's AA.

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23 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Ship Comrade isn't working.  I'm assuming ASM1 instead of AAGM2.  Do you got Manual AA and AFT on the captain?  Then I see that as a decent compromise.  Help out main battery dispersion some while still putting teeth to the 100mm AA which is the heart of Kii's AA.

Yeah, ASM1 over AAGM2. I feel Kii already has gun reliability problems with 1.7 sigma, so I don't feel the need to make it worse just to push my AA from "insane" to "finger of god."

BFT + AFT + Manual AA on my captain. I would agree that BFT could be safely dropped for a more conventional 3-point choice on the captain, but I figured if I'm going sub-optimal (my Kii captain is also my Yamato one) I might as well go all in.

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On 5/22/2018 at 3:12 PM, AdmiralPiett said:

Yeah, ASM1 over AAGM2. I feel Kii already has gun reliability problems with 1.7 sigma, so I don't feel the need to make it worse just to push my AA from "insane" to "finger of god."

BFT + AFT + Manual AA on my captain. I would agree that BFT could be safely dropped for a more conventional 3-point choice on the captain, but I figured if I'm going sub-optimal (my Kii captain is also my Yamato one) I might as well go all in.

Yeah, that's a good compromise.  Still... You have to admit, having a Full AA Build and watching the planes fall like bugs flying into a bug zapper is funny a.f...

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On 5/26/2018 at 12:37 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Yeah, that's a good compromise.  Still... You have to admit, having a Full AA Build and watching the planes fall like bugs flying into a bug zapper is funny a.f...

Oh very true. If I met CVs reliably I would be tempted. As it stands right now my AA captains get very little work outside of my Kongo, which incidentally is the funniest AA build ship. I have had Bogues and Zuihos lose entire strikes, then immediately attack me again. Probably because the players are either so new they don't know better or, in other cases, seem to be in denial that it was a Kongo that wiped their squadrons. AA build on IJN BB/CCs in general is understated. I find them more effective than they appear on paper because CVs tend to be complacent when they strike. They give little respect for Japanese AA, and I don't blame them considering everybody goes survivability build so they have no AA. As a result CVs tend to launch sloppier strikes from less optimal angles, as opposed to how they carefully position to strike a Montana or North Carolina. That means they stay inside my AA envelope for a significant amount of time, and don't realise how strong my AA is until it is too late. That all being said, I would never recommend such a build for IJN BB/CCs to anyone else. It is a lot of points to invest for a highly situational advantage, and when a CV really wants to line you up the raw damage output of Japanese AA (outside of Kii) is still lacking.

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25 minutes ago, AdmiralPiett said:

Oh very true. If I met CVs reliably I would be tempted. As it stands right now my AA captains get very little work outside of my Kongo, which incidentally is the funniest AA build ship. I have had Bogues and Zuihos lose entire strikes, then immediately attack me again. Probably because the players are either so new they don't know better or, in other cases, seem to be in denial that it was a Kongo that wiped their squadrons. AA build on IJN BB/CCs in general is understated. I find them more effective than they appear on paper because CVs tend to be complacent when they strike. They give little respect for Japanese AA, and I don't blame them considering everybody goes survivability build so they have no AA. As a result CVs tend to launch sloppier strikes from less optimal angles, as opposed to how they carefully position to strike a Montana or North Carolina. That means they stay inside my AA envelope for a significant amount of time, and don't realise how strong my AA is until it is too late. That all being said, I would never recommend such a build for IJN BB/CCs to anyone else. It is a lot of points to invest for a highly situational advantage, and when a CV really wants to line you up the raw damage output of Japanese AA (outside of Kii) is still lacking.

Low tier CV players are really bad.  They find something that shoots all their planes down and they try again the next wave.  Suddenly they are out of planes in 2 sorties.  They don't really understand yet the danger of AA, even in Tier IV-V.  Those tiers are populated by terrible AA ships but there are also some nasty surprises there.  I laugh and shake my head at the same time as the planes are spiraling down into the water.

 

It's why I sail Texas out in the open alone hoping for the CV to come for me, making myself a tempting airstrike target.

Even Konig in Secondary Spec can send bomber waves back with horrendous losses.

Yubari has been known to troll CVs also.

 

All it takes is one bad airstrike attempt and the low tier CV has rendered itself meaningless for the rest of the match.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Low tier CV players are really bad.  They find something that shoots all their planes down and they try again the next wave.  Suddenly they are out of planes in 2 sorties.  They don't really understand yet the danger of AA, even in Tier IV-V.  Those tiers are populated by terrible AA ships but there are also some nasty surprises there.  I laugh and shake my head at the same time as the planes are spiraling down into the water.

 

It's why I sail Texas out in the open alone hoping for the CV to come for me, making myself a tempting airstrike target.

Even Konig in Secondary Spec can send bomber waves back with horrendous losses.

Yubari has been known to troll CVs also.

 

All it takes is one bad airstrike attempt and the low tier CV has rendered itself meaningless for the rest of the match.

Yup. Myogi is pretty fun to do that with. Kongo is nasty though. 103 DPS out to 6km with captain skills and signal flags only. Out to 7.2 km with the module. The close in stuff is gravy.

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Someone said that the Kii's are not seen often which I like the most about it. CVs that don't know better are my favorite as I melt 20-30 planes and BBs that come charging at you are also hilarious because 0eople legit you have torps or they think it's a strange Mutsu gimmicky thing. 

 

I really enjoy the Kii. I tried a pure secondary build and I had some fun with it but switch to AA spec and it becomes hilarious given the right match. 

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