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lewellenfawr

Killer Whale - Operation

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I have played through a couple of the Killer Whale operations this morning. Unlike the previous Operations, this iteration seems to be untouched. I wonder if this means that all or the other Operations will revert to the "Normal" difficulty going forward. I wish that WG was transparent about what has been going on the past several weeks with the difficulty level.

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I was suspecting that the game reacts to the operator experience level to determine killer focus level.

I went in as a team with clan-mates who never did this operation...   Having done this one about 100 times,  I was focused and dead within 2 minutes..  The rest of my clan-mates...

'Hey.. this is easy.  They aren't even hitting me.' -- all full health.

For me it was like being the lone DD in a Co-Op match.  They all chased me down and cut me apart like Julius Caesar in the Senate.

And afterwards, they gently tossed marsh-mallows at my clan-mates.

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Excellent, the tasty CLs and cargo ships will be just as easy prey for my Graf Spee then.

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17 minutes ago, lewellenfawr said:

I have played through a couple of the Killer Whale operations this morning. Unlike the previous Operations, this iteration seems to be untouched. I wonder if this means that all or the other Operations will revert to the "Normal" difficulty going forward. I wish that WG was transparent about what has been going on the past several weeks with the difficulty level.

EXCELLENT NEWS! I'm glad to hear this. In fact, I'm going to gear up and play me some Killer Whale.

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14 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

Excellent, the tasty CLs and cargo ships will be just as easy prey for my Graf Spee then.

Yeah I have been having a lot of fun this morning using Graf Spee in Killer Whale Op. Feels so Historical to use the ship in such a battle.

:fish_cute_2:

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As I said elsewhere, the change to the other Operations would, at least in my analysis, be born mostly of trying to make the Operation Success rate drop a bit, but instead of making it harder mechanically, like the T6's are, they choose to use 'artificial difficulty' and just buffed the hell out of enemies. People fail the T6 Ops all the time, but it's mostly because of not adhering to the needed mechanics (like a Raid); not covering Raptor/sinking those torp boats in due time, not killing all the 3 waves of ships before they enter the harbor, being too far away from the exit point to get half the ships in, in time, or things like that. It isn't so much teams get WIPED out, but rather lack of teamwork/knowledge/cohesion. In the T7 ops, for some reason, it seemed (prior to their buff) that they were MUCH easier to beat even with stupid players doing stupid player things. You could win them with little effort. But instead of changing the TASKS for victory, or moving mechanics around, they choose to just BOOST the hell out of enemy DPS, which is the very definition of artificial difficulty curves. Frankly, it's a *stupid* way and more tellingly, lazy way, to get to the same point: reduced Success Rates.

*AND* this all shows that Wargaming fundamentally misunderstands how *gamers* like to play: difficulty needs to be JUST hard enough that you have to play, but NOT hard enough to be impossible. Are there players who like to bang their heads against a wall? Yep. Is that the Majority of gamers (thus, the majority of your SALES)? Nope. Difficulty curves are some of the hardest parts of game's development, and since WGing has, mostly, only ever had the crutch of PvP (and thus not an issue) they have a great deal of learning on how to properly tool difficulties. Also, they need to get overthemselves on the grind: who cares if the grind/payout is higher in Ops for the single tier per week that is playing them: the salient point is that they need to be fun first.

Edited by _RC1138
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23 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

I was suspecting that the game reacts to the operator experience level to determine killer focus level.

I went in as a team with clan-mates who never did this operation...   Having done this one about 100 times,  I was focused and dead within 2 minutes..  The rest of my clan-mates...

'Hey.. this is easy.  They aren't even hitting me.' -- all full health.

For me it was like being the lone DD in a Co-Op match.  They all chased me down and cut me apart like Julius Caesar in the Senate.

And afterwards, they gently tossed marsh-mallows at my clan-mates.

I had 1 battle this morning in my Graf Spee that enemy seemed very interested in me. Could be player WR, or ship WR, or how many times you have done the Op, or the ship type, but I actually was more under the impression that I had just been too efficient and aggressive too early. I have not played games that have dungeons to clear ect. But have heard they can have systems where you have to balance your damage output perfectly or else you generate too much aggro and you get targeted. I was also the lead ship as well lol.

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17 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

 Also, they need to get overthemselves on the grind: who cares if the grind/payout is higher in Ops for the single tier per week that is playing them: the salient point is that they need to be fun first.

1

Fun, what a great word. You hit it.

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Played it once today. Seems same as before (not buffed like the others).

 

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Usually play Ryujo or Independence in KW, more recently I enjoyed using Normandie, (SECONDARIES... FIRE!!!) May have to collect a few div mates and have a go at it again.

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1 hour ago, lewellenfawr said:

I wish that WG was transparent about

ANYTHING!

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19 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Usually play Ryujo or Independence in KW, more recently I enjoyed using Normandie, (SECONDARIES... FIRE!!!) May have to collect a few div mates and have a go at it again.

This OP, when playing CV (Ryujo), I usually inform the team that my first drops of torps and bombs are for the docked BB and CV. Typically drop at max range to mitigate the AA. 1 squad of torp planes to each ship. wait about 20 seconds to see if they put out any floods and then send in the bombers from the bottom of the map. Usually kill the CV (no early battle sky cancer), but takes 1 more squad of torp planes to finish off the BB (as it likes to DC and heal).

After that, I announce to the team that I will assist in spotting enemies and its a free for all while in the port. Then I send my planes to spot and drop on the enemy CV's. Below is an average game for me. I'm certainly not the best CV player, but OPs allows me to play a ship type that I rarely battle in.

What kills it (and the team) is if you have the EVAC point that is on the left side of the map and not the top. Majority of the defeats I have "experienced", is as a direct result of people going to the wrong location because they don't bother to look at the mini-map. Cheers!

20170904_115306.jpg

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14 minutes ago, ARandomClaymore said:

This OP, when playing CV (Ryujo), I usually inform the team that my first drops of torps and bombs are for the docked BB and CV. Typically drop at max range to mitigate the AA. 1 squad of torp planes to each ship. wait about 20 seconds to see if they put out any floods and then send in the bombers from the bottom of the map. Usually kill the CV (no early battle sky cancer), but takes 1 more squad of torp planes to finish off the BB (as it likes to DC and heal).

After that, I announce to the team that I will assist in spotting enemies and its a free for all while in the port. Then I send my planes to spot and drop on the enemy CV's. Below is an average game for me. I'm certainly not the best CV player, but OPs allows me to play a ship type that I rarely battle in.

What kills it (and the team) is if you have the EVAC point that is on the left side of the map and not the top. Majority of the defeats I have "experienced", is as a direct result of people going to the wrong location because they don't bother to look at the mini-map. Cheers!

20170904_115306.jpg

This brings me to a question of mine: is the top exit point still an option? I've played 4 operations today so far and all 4 times the exit point has been on the left side. Coincidence?

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I tried a couple of games this morning and found that it is not as buffed as the other operations, thank goodness, and it seems back to normal (more or less).  I did noticed that the fire chance from enemy bots remains high though.  Granted I was driving a German cruiser, the HSF Graf Spee with its higher chance to catch fire.  I was hit with exactly 2 HE shells on 2 different volleys.  Both shells started fire, which seems to me a little too high a fire chance.

However, this scenario lacks the swarm of enemy ships that some of the other scenarios has so it wasn't a big deal to close in and blast the enemy into smithereens.

Overall, I'll say I like this scenario the way it is now.  Easy enough to be fun with just a touch of difficulty if you want a 5 Star victor.  Perhaps now I'll focus on my Normandie and progress up the French BB tree.

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Thanks mate for the news on the mission. After the last two i was done trying because the buffs for a random player were a bit much and a complete waste of my time. I will try and click in tonight.  Happy sailing all

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20 hours ago, CFagan1987 said:

is the top exit point still an option?

Yes, it is. I played last night, and it was there. 1 swallow does not a summer make, but if you want a yes/no answer, the answer is yes.

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22 hours ago, CFagan1987 said:

This brings me to a question of mine: is the top exit point still an option? I've played 4 operations today so far and all 4 times the exit point has been on the left side. Coincidence?

Oh he!! yes!  They've changed the rate at which the N exit is the way out.  Previously (before this week) the W exit occurred at about a 3:1 rate.  Last night, the first 5 exits were N.  Only 2 of 8 games played had a W exit.

 

Otherwise I detect no difference in the Op.  Last night, even with a partial team, I had 7 straight 5-stars, followed by a 4-star.  (Due to a couple of tactical errors we failed to kill the first Kaiser.)  Frankly, this one is too easy for those familiar with the spawn pattern.

Edited by iDuckman
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15 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Oh he!! yes!  They've changed the rate at which the N exit is the way out.  Previously (before this week) the W exit occurred at about a 3:1 rate.  Last night, the first 5 exits were N.  Only 2 of 8 games played had a W exit.

Okay, the N/W exit distribution has gone back to normal.  Tonight mostly W exits.


One thing that seems to have changed:  The 2dnary requirement is "don't let red ships into the Haven".  Where the blazes is the Haven ??  It's never been defined, but we generally conceived it as the N edge of the small island in the bay, about the D/E line.  That's no longer the case.  Now the task fails if you let the N Kolsberg below the C/D line! 

Attention needs to be paid to the N earlier, now.

 

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On 4/25/2018 at 10:09 AM, CFagan1987 said:

This brings me to a question of mine: is the top exit point still an option? I've played 4 operations today so far and all 4 times the exit point has been on the left side. Coincidence?

Luck. Played several today, exit varied as normal.

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Seems normal to me.  Did have a few mission fails.  But those were games where the rest of the random teams didn't seem to have looked at the objectives.  One was particularly bad.  I was playing my Arizona.  Team took out the first couple forts that appear, then YOLO'd into the harbor.  After clearing out the forts they left behind, I look and the docked CV and BB were undamaged.  I take them out, but I look and I'm one of the three remaining greens.  I'm down inside the harbor, and the DD and CA on the team are headed to the North exit.  Only the DD is close.  He gets taken out by two BB's while close to the exit.  The CA gets torped.  And by now I'm the focus of the entire red team.  

But other games were ROFL stomps in the other direction.  One where everyone was communicating intent and focusing on the objectives.  Five stars with almost 5 minutes left.  But I've seen tx141 do some videos on YouTube where he forms a squad of five players.  They are on comms and coordinate.  They 5 star the Ops despite starting short handed.  

TLDR, if you coordinate and focus on objectives, it's easy.  If you don't do either, it's REALLY hard.

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On 4/25/2018 at 9:38 AM, _RC1138 said:

As I said elsewhere, the change to the other Operations would, at least in my analysis, be born mostly of trying to make the Operation Success rate drop a bit, but instead of making it harder mechanically, like the T6's are, they choose to use 'artificial difficulty' and just buffed the hell out of enemies. People fail the T6 Ops all the time, but it's mostly because of not adhering to the needed mechanics (like a Raid); not covering Raptor/sinking those torp boats in due time, not killing all the 3 waves of ships before they enter the harbor, being too far away from the exit point to get half the ships in, in time, or things like that. It isn't so much teams get WIPED out, but rather lack of teamwork/knowledge/cohesion. In the T7 ops, for some reason, it seemed (prior to their buff) that they were MUCH easier to beat even with stupid players doing stupid player things. You could win them with little effort. But instead of changing the TASKS for victory, or moving mechanics around, they choose to just BOOST the hell out of enemy DPS, which is the very definition of artificial difficulty curves. Frankly, it's a *stupid* way and more tellingly, lazy way, to get to the same point: reduced Success Rates.

*AND* this all shows that Wargaming fundamentally misunderstands how *gamers* like to play: difficulty needs to be JUST hard enough that you have to play, but NOT hard enough to be impossible. Are there players who like to bang their heads against a wall? Yep. Is that the Majority of gamers (thus, the majority of your SALES)? Nope. Difficulty curves are some of the hardest parts of game's development, and since WGing has, mostly, only ever had the crutch of PvP (and thus not an issue) they have a great deal of learning on how to properly tool difficulties. Also, they need to get overthemselves on the grind: who cares if the grind/payout is higher in Ops for the single tier per week that is playing them: the salient point is that they need to be fun first.

As I see it, Ops are good for letting the underpowered ships see the light of day, but because players wanted to abuse the system with good ships to farm fxp, we can't have nice things I guess with the increased difficulty.

Edited by Sventex

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12 minutes ago, Sventex said:

good ships to farm fxp,

Maybe that's the answer: keep the current reward system of credits/Ship XP but set Free XP earnings to 0.

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