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Development Alert from Sub_Octavian on controversial mods such as "Traffic Lights" and Angle Indicator

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There are a lot of controversial mods in Aslains that some players argue give an unfair advantage. Sub_Octavian has finally spoken on them and told us what WG's stance is on this. Info courtesy of PrivatePinguin 

Short version TL:DR Angle indicator both on the screen and on the minimap is allowed. The minimap indicator is coming to the game but the not the dynamic on screen. "Traffic Lights" is allowed. "X marks the spot" will be coming to the game. "Smart markers" aka MonstroMarkers are being worked on to come on the game.

Quote

 

"I'd like to clarify the situation with making mods native to the game, as I’ve seen quite a few discussions on the topic. What I’m going to say is our official position, and you don’t have to agree with it, but I believe you’ll be able to understand it better. Please, feel free to spread the word if you feel like it, nothing I this message is a secret. First and foremost – we warn players that use anything that we consider close to cheating, and then we suspend or ban their accounts in accordance with the ruleset published in the end of 2017. I’m talking about mods that give players a tangible advantage, like any of the predictive aiming aids.

 

Now, let us look at the more popular mods that are allowed and our plans in regards to the UI development.

 

  • Minimap movement vector is going to be added to the game soon. Not a dynamic one, therefore it does not directly replace the popular “traffic lights”, but makes the icon orientation more obvious and easy to perceive. This can make for an interesting combo with the line of sight on the minimap – together they are basically a version of the popular “angle meter” mod. We’re not going to show you the exact degree values between you and the target, you’ll still have the mod for that, but overall, it’s now much easier to measure the angles in a battle, which helps both tanking and dealing damage in many cases. And keep In mind that we’re not providing any new info, this could be deducted before, but required you to closely follow the minimap (maybe even hurting your eyes) or the ship’s model and therefore - far less convenient.

 

  • “Traffic lights” are not being implemented yet. This mod can be useful when there’s a battleship closing in, which then begins to back up (we all had that happen, right?), and the funnel smoke does not really give you a clue. Again, using overclocked eyes, you can get that from the minimap, but that’s not very user-friendly. That’s why some players use “traffic lights”. We’re sure as hull not going to put it in the game like the original mod, adding said lights, but making it a part of the minimap as something less intrusive seems like a good idea.

 

Everything mentioned so far, is not only harmless, it does not change the game in any meaningful way. These solutions simply show the already available information in a more convenient manner.

 

  • “X marks the spot”. This is something that we want to introduce as a part of the client quite soon, after the movement vector is in. Now it exists as a mod obviously. It’s used for better orientation and shooting at targets hidden in smokescreens. Our version will most likely show the factual aiming spot instead of the camera focus, which will improve upon the educational part of this feature. Heated arguments often begin about the ability to shoot blindly, judging by the markers of latest spotting. There is a video, where Kutuzov cruiser is covering a stationary bot with smoke and then citadels it with blind fire from 3-4 kilometers.

 

  • You might hate me for this, but I’m going to say it anyway: don’t make you final judgements based on synthetic tests. E.g., it is technically possible to citadel a Yamato through a funnel with a 203-mm shell. Seriously, if you fire at a close range there will be enough penetration to go through the superstructure, ricochet against the 19-mm exhaust plating, pierce the first 57-mm deck (piercing value of the shell is less than 1/3rd of the initial one at this point, but still enough) and even the 200-m armored deck (just barely, but still possible). And then – an explosion in the citadel. I even have an outline of proposed shot :) This is a fringe case, but I imagine you get the gist. This can be reproduced in the training room. Ut in battle? One in a million? In the overwhelming majority of cases ships don’t stop instantly in smokescreens, a lot of times they are still on the move, while covered. Additionally, blind fire is seldom left unpunished this close and tracers make it even easier to perform close-range shots. When It comes to standard distances – there’s a huge dispersion penalty if the target is not focused, which doesn’t allow for stable damage from blind fire. As a bonus, putting this mod in game would end the questions about equality and fairness, since everyone will have it. Newbies should be able learn the targeting system faster, as they will be able to better analyze their aim in relation to 3d world and minimap.

 

  • “Smart markers” – markers that show consumable activation. We understand why this is popular, as some consumables are hard to identify in the battle. You can recognize Def AA Fire by the increased output of AA guns, Repair Party by the HP bar, but Hydro or Radar… Basicaly, this info is wanted and needed. However, our game is not just an MMO-action, not an MMMORPG, so we’re not going to make a whole separate section with all the “buffs” and “debuffs”. However, it’d be short-sighted of us not to encourage teamwork and collaboration. That’s why we’re going to work in this direction, but more likely as an improvement to the quick command flower and favor mindful cooperation by communication and warning the teammates. That’s why there’s no timeline for this yet, the task is quite a big one. Thank you! Sorry if I made anyone sad"

 

 

 

 

Great to hear from Sub_Octavian on WG's stance on all these mods. It has definitely been long-awaited.

TL;DR Angle indicator both on the screen and on the minimap is allowed. The minimap indicator is coming to the game but the not the dynamic on screen. "Traffic Lights" is allowed. "X marks the spot" will be coming to the game. "Smart markers" aka MonstroMarkers are being worked on to come in the game.

Doomlock and I will be discussing these changes in Episode 3 of Sink or Be Sunk Podcast. Episode 2 will be coming out this weekend! If you don't know about the podcast you can check it out here

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I would think so because some of those mods were in their own modpack. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by Wulfgarn
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The message I get from all of this is that players that have spent years learning the mechanics of the game and how to overcome obstacles... well... screw them.  We need to make the steamed potatoes just as competitive as someone who has really worked to improve their skills.  So let's add a bunch of crap to the game to level the playing field so we can milk all the cows.

 

What's next?    Giving out free ships, FXP and credits to people who don't even play the game?

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Options are nice and helping new players get the ropes so they are retained is a good idea as well. 

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6 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

What's next?    Giving out free ships, FXP and credits to people who don't even play the game?

Sarcasm?

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11 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

So let's add a bunch of crap to the game to level the playing field

Why are you so scared that the seals are going to be given clubs of their own? :Smile_popcorn:

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Give a seal a club and watch him nibble on the end of it to see if it's edible .....

@JCC45 The mods provide information, not skills.  Even knowing if a ship is backing up is of dubious value if a seal ignores the motionless broadside Omaha 5km from him to try and figure out how to pen the nose of a Gneissenau with his 152mm guns at 15km....

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15 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

The message I get from all of this is that players that have spent years learning the mechanics of the game and how to overcome obstacles... well... screw them.  We need to make the steamed potatoes just as competitive as someone who has really worked to improve their skills.  So let's add a bunch of crap to the game to level the playing field so we can milk all the cows.

 

What's next?    Giving out free ships, FXP and credits to people who don't even play the game?

The real message is that many of those « skilled » players have been using these mods for months if not years. They are now simply being made widely available to all.

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1 hour ago, JCC45 said:

 

What's next?    Giving out free ships, FXP and credits to people who don't even play the game?

 

Well I got 150,000 FXP and a T5 and T6 premium ship free for simply not playing the game for a few months.

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I'm still in the "ban them all" camp. None of these mods are necessary or even useful if you are good. They're just crutches and I don't like dumbing down the game without a valid reason. For instance, X marks the spot is pointless if you move within your smoke. Good players have always been doing this. That's why they don't get deleted while idiots sit still.

These threads are always laden with circular reasoning. First, shitters suggest that good players aren't actually good and they must be using these mods. Then they argue the mods should be integrated because it's a quality of life feature and not dumbing down the game. The contradiction here is they claim the substantial benefit it confers to skilled players (who aren't even using said mods in reality) should be made available out of fairness, but then lambast anyone who says integrating this mod makes the game easier. You can't have it both ways; either it's significant enough that everyone should have it (and thus the game becomes easier to play) or it isn't significant and you're just upset that you aren't good.

Most people see through this trickery. If good players don't need these mods, why do you?

Edited by awildseaking
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12 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Why are you so scared that the seals are going to be given clubs of their own? :Smile_popcorn:

Scared?  Why would you think that?  Now if you had used the word "frustrated" you might be a little closer to the point.

 

8 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

Give a seal a club and watch him nibble on the end of it to see if it's edible .....

@JCC45 The mods provide information, not skills.  Even knowing if a ship is backing up is of dubious value if a seal ignores the motionless broadside Omaha 5km from him to try and figure out how to pen the nose of a Gneissenau with his 152mm guns at 15km....

*WHOOSH*   That was the sound of the point whistling over your head.  The "information" the "x marks the spot" mod is not currently available in game.  You need to have experience and knowledge to know where your shots will land to be able to reliably hit ships in smoke.   You need that same experience and knowledge to properly determine a ship's angle, approximate course or speed using the mini-map.  Now any idiot with 200 games under their belt is going to be getting the same benefit as people who worked to get that experience and knowledge.  It's not about skill because skill won't matter anymore.  It's about dumbing down the game so skill no longer matters.

 

16 minutes ago, monpetitloup said:

The angle and x mods are already available via the wg sanctioned mod pack available in forum.

Oh.. well that makes it all better. 

Even a WG CCs has stated he thinks the "x marks the spot" is a cheat.

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33 minutes ago, Junostorm said:

Sarcasm?

 

15 minutes ago, flufflyfatcat said:

 

Well I got 150,000 FXP and a T5 and T6 premium ship free for simply not playing the game for a few months.

 

yYWN7.gif

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9 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

 

*WHOOSH*   That was the sound of the point whistling over your head.  The "information" the "x marks the spot" mod is not currently available in game.  You need to have experience and knowledge to know where your shots will land to be able to reliably hit ships in smoke.   You need that same experience and knowledge to properly determine a ship's angle, approximate course or speed using the mini-map.  Now any idiot with 200 games under their belt is going to be getting the same benefit as people who worked to get that experience and knowledge.  It's not about skill because skill won't matter anymore.  It's about dumbing down the game so skill no longer matters.

 

 

I got the point champ, and I am not the least bit concerned about this, and while I am not an exceptional player, I'm pretty sure I'm good enough to be a member of the "offended" class if I chose to be.  A unicum player in our clan has used the "X" to aim  only a handful of times in the last 6 months, and has gotten some overpens exactly twice.  If a uni isn't regularly racking up kills using this dubious info, why would a seal be able to miraculously sink you with it?

The reason WG is allowing it tells you how effective it is .....

But hey, go ahead and blow a gasket over it, I'm sure you want to keep some distance between yourself and all the mediocre players trying to catch up to you .....

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46 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

The message I get from all of this is that players that have spent years learning the mechanics of the game and how to overcome obstacles... well... screw them.  We need to make the steamed potatoes just as competitive as someone who has really worked to improve their skills.  So let's add a bunch of crap to the game to level the playing field so we can milk all the cows.

 

What's next?    Giving out free ships, FXP and credits to people who don't even play the game?

I don't agree.  I think that WG is taking ideas internally and externally and making the game better.  Warcraft used to do the same thing; mods that were allowed were sometimes copied and used to improve gameplay.  I usually liked it because it gave me a feature that I didn't need to manually update every time an update came out.

To those of you that feel that it 'dumbs down' the game' or robs you of the 'recognition' you deserve for figuring out these things on your own, I have a solution: draw and color a very nice picture, give it to your Mom and she will shower you with recognition and adoration by posting it on her refrigerator.

Thanks WG for constantly improving and streamlining game play.  Everyone wins!

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So, what we have here is a statement that the devs acknowledge that these mods provide advantages to the players that use them, and so will be put into the game client at some point, and that players who don't use them should not protest that they are disadvantaged because A ) having a clear advantage when using something does not logically mean you are disadvantaged if you are not using it and B ) they are going to give them to everyone because this will remove the illegitimate reasons that do not exist that people keep bringing up.

 

Added to this illogical and irrational statement, the Devs are adamantly opposed to putting in a mod that they themselves have approved for players to use with their full blessing and statements that it has no benefits to gameplay (which is why they will be adding an inferior version to re-balance gameplay for those who don't have it).

 

I'm sorry, but this is incredibly nonsensical and smacks of people who have gotten caught in their own hypocrisy saying "Okay, we'll give everyone the same cheats and that won't make it a cheat, so we won't have been doing what we said was illegal in the game but were allowing anyway".

 

No. All this does is prove conclusively that the Devs know exactly how much advantage the mods they approved to be used provide to those who use them. So much so that they feel they need to put some version of them in to preserve game balance.

Though, apparently they won't ban the existing 'traffic lights' mod, even though they are adamant that players who don't mod their client should not have the same thing themselves.

 

Utter double standard.

 

 

Edited by Jakob_Knight
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it doesn't matter if you give them the information when their brain is already overwhelmed with data.     it really only helps better player IMHO.        i use vanilla because I am lazy, so its good to see it in client.

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the X mod is not a fricken cheat. The X doesn't match where you're actually aimed at on the real water. you can prove this to yourself. when you're playing, find a BB that's sailing parallel to you, but at a slight angle away/toward you... Try to use the X on the minimap to find the perfect lead, taking into account the targets angle away/toward you, it's not going to work. The X will show up too near/far on the mini map compared to where you're aiming in front of said ship in the water. It's kind of hard to explain. If you went by the X mod, your shells would land in the wrong spot.

Edited by HorrorRoach

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Kind of undecided on this, maybe its because I am not unicum. I used to think RPF and PT were useless, they tell you things you should already know. However, what I found is they clarify the hunch you had. Now there is no question where that DD is hiding, no question how many people are targeting me, etc... I kind of feel like the mods / additions to the game reduce the guess work. I don't know if that makes the game dumber, or not, but I do feel it lowers the learning curve and makes the game more accessible to people, and that is a great business plan on WG's part.

Final thought, having the information, and knowing what to do with are two very different things.

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1 hour ago, JCC45 said:

The message I get from all of this is that players that have spent years learning the mechanics of the game and how to overcome obstacles... well... screw them.

That's probably what a lot of drivers said when the syncromesh was introduced, or power steering, or automatic transmissions.

Nowadays, it's automatic parallel parking, lane-departure and blind spot warnings, and backup cameras and proximity sensors. The message I get from automakers is that all that time I spent honing my situational awareness while driving, learning to parallel park, and reverse using mirrors and spatial awareness.....all a waste.

And don't even get me started on what great great Grandma would think of a modern, well-equipped kitchen.

Just curious, when you make breakfast, do you cook over an open fire, or do you use one of those stove things, that basically say "screw you" to people that took the time to learn to cook the hard way? I mean, anybody can cook a reasonably edible meal now.

Blasphemy!!!

 

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Not hard to see who is using these cheats mods currently.

 

Carry on you glorious bastards.

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1 hour ago, JCC45 said:

The "information" the "x marks the spot" mod is not currently available in game.  You need to have experience and knowledge to know where your shots will land to be able to reliably hit ships in smoke.   You need that same experience and knowledge to properly determine a ship's angle, approximate course or speed using the mini-map.  Now any idiot with 200 games under their belt is going to be getting the same benefit as people who worked to get that experience and knowledge.  

I'm confused. How is making the mod universally available going to bestow "experience and knowledge" on some idiot with 200 games? The mod isn't going to help much unless they have that.

Besides, the info is in-game, as people are already using this mod.

I like the idea. I can't be bothered with mods, but now I'll be able to apply my "knowledge and experience" to make use of the extra info.

Heck, I do all my aiming by eye and Kentucky Windage, but you don't hear me complaining about all these people using the numbered hash marks on their sights....

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4 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

Not hard to see who is using these cheats mods currently.

Look on the bright side. Soon it will be....

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